If you are asking WHY

Longestday

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This post says a million words

DUKE RECRUITING SUPPORT STAFF SINCE 2015: 14

GEORGIA TECH PRIOR TO CGC: 4 (got these 2016 at the earliest)
Idk what it is now.

I hope this clears some things up.

Anyone care to post ACC spending ranking by year since 2008?

I think the spending is going on in the right direction... but is it enough to compete?
 

BCJacket

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RonJohn

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This post says a million words



Anyone care to post ACC spending ranking by year since 2008?

I think the spending is going on in the right direction... but is it enough to compete?

The recruiting staff was increased by 4 people to 8 in 2018. A large donor matched donations to pay for two years of the increased staff. I don't remember exactly when, but it seems as though those positions were filled around March-April of last year. Too late to have a large impact on the 2019 class, but it should start helping with the 2020 class. It is still half of what Duke has.

Other ACC teams have other support staff also. I remember a comment by CPJ a few years ago the Clemson had more staff travel with the team than GT had on staff. Whether looking at the old staff or the new staff, it makes a big difference. When travelling , if the coaching staff doesn't have to worry about any operations/logistics/schedule/coordination/curfew/etc issues and can concentrate purely on football, that is a big advantage. During the season if there are staff that are putting together game film for upcoming opponents and have that footage cut, selected, and assembled early Sunday morning before the coaches begin game planning for the week, that is a big advantage. For recruiting, if there are 10 people on staff who pre-screen players, look at film, coordinate with HS coaches, that is a big advantage over a team on which the coaches do most of that work themselves.

This isn't an "excuse" for CPJ, it hurts the current staff also. No matter how people felt about CPJ, and no matter how they feel about CGC, if we fans want the team to be successful, they need our support. Not just on the Internet, not just yelling at the TV, but in donations to be able to support the coaches in the same ways that most ACC teams are doing.
 

Animal02

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The recruiting staff was increased by 4 people to 8 in 2018. A large donor matched donations to pay for two years of the increased staff. I don't remember exactly when, but it seems as though those positions were filled around March-April of last year. Too late to have a large impact on the 2019 class, but it should start helping with the 2020 class. It is still half of what Duke has.

Other ACC teams have other support staff also. I remember a comment by CPJ a few years ago the Clemson had more staff travel with the team than GT had on staff. Whether looking at the old staff or the new staff, it makes a big difference. When travelling , if the coaching staff doesn't have to worry about any operations/logistics/schedule/coordination/curfew/etc issues and can concentrate purely on football, that is a big advantage. During the season if there are staff that are putting together game film for upcoming opponents and have that footage cut, selected, and assembled early Sunday morning before the coaches begin game planning for the week, that is a big advantage. For recruiting, if there are 10 people on staff who pre-screen players, look at film, coordinate with HS coaches, that is a big advantage over a team on which the coaches do most of that work themselves.

This isn't an "excuse" for CPJ, it hurts the current staff also. No matter how people felt about CPJ, and no matter how they feel about CGC, if we fans want the team to be successful, they need our support. Not just on the Internet, not just yelling at the TV, but in donations to be able to support the coaches in the same ways that most ACC teams are doing.
Which pisses me off when posters with a narrative to drive say CPJ did not care about and or was a poor recruiter
 

RonJohn

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Which pisses me off when posters with a narrative to drive say CPJ did not care about and or was a poor recruiter

There are some that have done that.

However, with your recent posts you seem to be ignoring the fact that depth of staff and funding for assistant coaches is still an issue for the current head coach. Funding has been an issue for recruiting, staffing, and operations. It is still an issue. If you want to point out how it hurt the previous staff with regards to recruiting, don't ignore how it is hurting the current staff with gameday prep and operations.
 

Animal02

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There are some that have done that.

However, with your recent posts you seem to be ignoring the fact that depth of staff and funding for assistant coaches is still an issue for the current head coach. Funding has been an issue for recruiting, staffing, and operations. It is still an issue. If you want to point out how it hurt the previous staff with regards to recruiting, don't ignore how it is hurting the current staff with gameday prep and operations.
It definitely hurts. It still does not excuse the lack of competiveness against lesser opponents......or even equals
 

ibeattetris

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This is ignored so much. I just can't believe that this data exists and people still spout some of the things they say. The arms race of NCAA staff and spending exploded in 2012, and our AD was AWOL. Saying our coaching staff wasn't trying when we were out staffed and out spent is ludicrous. I am really glad TStan seems to understand this.

Don't forget this:
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ollege_football_where_does_syracuse_rank.html
61. Georgia Tech, $17.38 million

Paul Johnson uses the triple-option as a talent equalizer and it helps him deal with a financial inequality as well. Georgia Tech has the second-smallest athletic budget in the country, though it does devote a good chunk of it to football.

The Yellow Jackets have played in bowl games in 19 of the past 20 seasons.
61 of 65 in P5 spending and the second lowest is overall athletic spending in P5. This is what GT football was.

It saddens me that our spending was considered acceptable by people who want to blame CPJ. I am thankful for TStan for seeing these issues and addressing them. I am thankful for Collins for stepping into this situation and trying to make the best of it. I hope at least one person who sees all of this data changes their mind about who the fault really lies with.
 

Boaty1

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This is ignored so much. I just can't believe that this data exists and people still spout some of the things they say. The arms race of NCAA staff and spending exploded in 2012, and our AD was AWOL. Saying our coaching staff wasn't trying when we were out staffed and out spent is ludicrous. I am really glad TStan seems to understand this.

Don't forget this:
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ollege_football_where_does_syracuse_rank.html

61 of 65 in P5 spending and the second lowest is overall athletic spending in P5. This is what GT football was.

It saddens me that our spending was considered acceptable by people who want to blame CPJ. I am thankful for TStan for seeing these issues and addressing them. I am thankful for Collins for stepping into this situation and trying to make the best of it. I hope at least one person who sees all of this data changes their mind about who the fault really lies with.

One can believe our spending was unacceptable while simultaneously believing it wouldn’t have helped Johnson much.
 

RonJohn

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Somehow I don’t think additional recruiting staff would have helped much. Getting kids to play in the triple was always the bigger obstacle.

Having coaches review recruiting film is the best use of coaches time? Having coaches identify all of the targets is a good method that is likely to identify all of the targets that are a fit for the TO and for GT? Having additional people looking for targets would have zero impact? If I remember correctly, the TO was a factor for Parker Braun. I believe he had a quote saying he wanted to play somewhere that he could go after people instead of backing up. Extra staff could have identified more players like that around the country.

GT didn't even have a person to do social media videos for football until the 2018 recruiting initiative fundraising. Are you saying the football coaches should be the ones filming and editing social media videos?

I am not trying to say that the offense had zero impact on recruiting. I am saying that it is crazy to believe that having enough staff so that coaches don't have to do all of the film study and coordination would have zero impact.
 

ibeattetris

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One can believe our spending was unacceptable while simultaneously believing it wouldn’t have helped Johnson much.
Duke had 4 times the number of recruiting staff. "It wouldn't have helped as much" is an incredibly narrow way of viewing this. Regardless, you are making assumptions, the fact is, we had less spending while others had more, and the ones spending more improved quicker than we did.

I love GT. I can't believe I have to defend my hate for how the previous AD ran the athletic department into the ground. This isn't even just about football. Look at all of GT sports. Is CPJ responsible for our recruiting and performance issues in basketball as well? Maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than just the triple option.
 

Techster

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This is ignored so much. I just can't believe that this data exists and people still spout some of the things they say. The arms race of NCAA staff and spending exploded in 2012, and our AD was AWOL. Saying our coaching staff wasn't trying when we were out staffed and out spent is ludicrous. I am really glad TStan seems to understand this.

Don't forget this:
https://www.syracuse.com/orangefoot...ollege_football_where_does_syracuse_rank.html

61 of 65 in P5 spending and the second lowest is overall athletic spending in P5. This is what GT football was.

It saddens me that our spending was considered acceptable by people who want to blame CPJ. I am thankful for TStan for seeing these issues and addressing them. I am thankful for Collins for stepping into this situation and trying to make the best of it. I hope at least one person who sees all of this data changes their mind about who the fault really lies with.

Our AD wasn't "AWOL" as much as he was AWOL when it came to CPJ. Bobinski did not want CPJ to be his football coach, and he made it clear that he was fine with CPJ going elsewhere. Remember that tweet about CPJ being fed up and wanting a buyout during Bobinski's tenure? It was true. Bobinski wanted CPJ to either leave (to avoid a buyout) or wait for CPJ's contract to expire. When CPJ unexpectedly had that great year in 2014, Bobinski had no choice but to extend CPJ...CPJ had a LOT of support among donors and people within the administration. 2014 also set in motion Bobinski's departure at GT...he knew he lost his struggle with CPJ. CPJ deserved MUCH better than Bobinski.

What Bobinski did in trying to hurt CPJ was set back our entire football program for years. He tried to financially strangle CPJ, but at the same time he set our program back years and we're just now starting to dig our way out of it little by little.

An entire book can be written about how the decisions of various ADs have hurt GT. GT, at various times, has been a national level program. Then ADs have made terrible, and almost ruinous, decisions that have hurt our programs for years.
 

Boaty1

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Duke had 4 times the number of recruiting staff. "It wouldn't have helped as much" is an incredibly narrow way of viewing this. Regardless, you are making assumptions, the fact is, we had less spending while others had more, and the ones spending more improved quicker than we did.

I love GT. I can't believe I have to defend my hate for how the previous AD ran the athletic department into the ground. This isn't even just about football. Look at all of GT sports. Is CPJ responsible for our recruiting and performance issues in basketball as well? Maybe, just maybe, there is more to it than just the triple option.

Gailey’s last class was higher than any of Johnson’s. Collins first class will be higher than any of Johnson’s.

It seems pretty clear to me where the problem in terms of recruiting lies. With that said I completely agree with you on the previous AD.
 

ibeattetris

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Our AD wasn't "AWOL" as much as he was AWOL when it came to CPJ. Bobinski did not want CPJ to be his football coach, and he made it clear that he was fine with CPJ going elsewhere. Remember that tweet about CPJ being fed up and wanting a buyout during Bobinski's tenure? It was true. Bobinski wanted CPJ to either leave (to avoid a buyout) or wait for CPJ's contract to expire. When CPJ unexpectedly had that great year in 2014, Bobinski had no choice but to extend CPJ...CPJ had a LOT of support among donors and people within the administration. 2014 also set in motion Bobinski's departure at GT...he knew he lost his struggle with CPJ. CPJ deserved MUCH better than Bobinski.

What Bobinski did in trying to hurt CPJ was set back our entire football program for years. He tried to financially strangle CPJ, but at the same time he set our program back years and we're just now starting to dig our way out of it little by little.

An entire book can be written about how the decisions of various ADs have hurt GT. GT, at various times, has been a national level program. Then ADs have made terrible, and almost ruinous, decisions that have hurt our programs for years.
I think you are pretty nail on head here, but from everything I read, it wasn't *just* football. I believe "Sasquatch" came from athletic department staff about him never being seen.

https://www.ajc.com/blog/jeff-schul...ch-great-shape-update/dUA21ttCc8ZvApIOzUn1pL/

It’s no secret there was a chasm between Bobinski and Johnson, who was hired by Radakovich. Bobinski clearly had designs on firing Johnson in 2014 until consecutive upsets over Clemson and Georgia. Only then, awkwardly, was Johnson offered a contract extension.
Tech's administration needs to understand that the athletic department is not a well-functioning part of the university these days. The Jackets will never have the footprint or command the attention of Georgia but that doesn't mean they can't thrive. The current situation needs to be fixed. Morale is as low as ever, according to insiders. One source said Bobinski's nickname among Tech athletic employees was "Sasquatch." Why? Because nobody ever saw him.
Tech coach Paul Johnson told Sugiura that the Jackets were "way behind " in terms of quality of facilities and staff. "If you look at the other schools, we’re probably behind in most every aspect, from facilities to staff to salaries to whatever."

I do think the previous AD had a vendetta against CPJ more than others, but the fact that our entire athletic department is struggling is an indictment against him for more than just football.
 

RonJohn

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Our AD wasn't "AWOL" as much as he was AWOL when it came to CPJ.

I'm not sure that is exactly true. Reportedly he had a nickname of a mythical creature because he was rarely seen at the GTAA office. I have heard stories(albeit not from reliable sources) that GTAA employees, coaches from other sports, and all but a select few donors had issues getting in touch with him. I never really understood what he was doing or what his vision for the athletic department was.

What Bobinski did in trying to hurt CPJ was set back our entire football program for years. He tried to financially strangle CPJ, but at the same time he set our program back years and we're just now starting to dig our way out of it little by little.

This is something that I really have a hard time understanding. IF his goal was to get rid of CPJ and install his own head football coach, how can it make sense to destroy the program to do that. If you leave facilities in bad shape, reduce operational funding, force the team to work with fewer personnel than all but one other ACC program, and refuse to allow the team to acquire assets(like the Catapult system), then MBob's guy would have come into the same situation. MBob could not have immediately improved the locker room, increased funding, increased staff, and acquired several years worth of assets and collateral from those assets for the new coach. If he had successfully pushed out CPJ, it was almost a guarantee that "his" guy would have been a failure.
 

RonJohn

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Gailey’s last class was higher than any of Johnson’s. Collins first class will be higher than any of Johnson’s.

It seems pretty clear to me where the problem in terms of recruiting lies. With that said I completely agree with you on the previous AD.

Gailey's last class was his highest rated class by a long shot.

Gailey's last class was before the real arms race in recruiting started. Collins's first class is yet to be signed, and is after the recruiting staff size was doubled.

Collins probably will recruit better in general, even if the extra staff weren't available. However, he will be judged not just by Rivals and ESPN recruiting rankings but by how he is able to use those players. That will depend on how well they are coached. GT still doesn't have a top 15 assistant coaching salary pool. Thacker might turn out to be a top DC, but if he does GT doesn't currently have the money to keep him around. Under CPJ, GT needed money for recruiting and for a top notch DC. Under CGC, GT still needs money for recruiting and needs money to get or retain a top notch DC and OC. As a matter of fact, if CGC is able to turn things around next year or 2021 and finish in the top 10 for a couple of years in a row, GT doesn't have enough money to keep him.
 

Techster

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I'm not sure that is exactly true. Reportedly he had a nickname of a mythical creature because he was rarely seen at the GTAA office. I have heard stories(albeit not from reliable sources) that GTAA employees, coaches from other sports, and all but a select few donors had issues getting in touch with him. I never really understood what he was doing or what his vision for the athletic department was.



This is something that I really have a hard time understanding. IF his goal was to get rid of CPJ and install his own head football coach, how can it make sense to destroy the program to do that. If you leave facilities in bad shape, reduce operational funding, force the team to work with fewer personnel than all but one other ACC program, and refuse to allow the team to acquire assets(like the Catapult system), then MBob's guy would have come into the same situation. MBob could not have immediately improved the locker room, increased funding, increased staff, and acquired several years worth of assets and collateral from those assets for the new coach. If he had successfully pushed out CPJ, it was almost a guarantee that "his" guy would have been a failure.

What Bobinski did (or rather, didn't do) is actually well documented, and commented on by various writers. In fact, Bobinski contradicted himself when he spoke of not renewing CPJ's contract before the 2014 season, but then renewed Brian Gregory's contract for the reason he said he didn't need to renew CPJ's contract. You can look it up on AJC's website: Bobinski said renewing CPJ's contract to give him 4 years for recruiting purposes is an issue that media talks about and doesn't affect recruiting. Then when they asked why Brian Gregory got renewed (and also reset his buyout) without any success, Bobinski said Gregory needed it for recruiting.

I'm not being condescending when I say that you must not understand human nature. Some people are OK with cutting off their nose to spite their face. That was what Bobinski did to CPJ. Bobinski believed that he had the financial support, and this is a bit dark, there were some donors at the time that went along with Bobinski in witholding money, as long as they could get rid of CPJ. If you remember how badly this board was divided during CPJ's last years, it was the same scene at the upper levels with the admins and donors. There is a LOT of stuff that I've heard about that went on behind the scenes that boggles the mind because it just meant GT as a whole ended up getting hurt and not just CPJ. Remember CPJ reaching out to Tennessee for that job...and then CPJ basically retired the following year? It's not a coincidence...CPJ knew he was (undeservedly) the source of division. TStan held it together pretty well, but CPJ saw the writing on the wall.

Like I said, CPJ deserved a lot better than what he got.
 

lv20gt

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Johnson couldn't capitalize on great 2008 and 2009 years in regards to recruiting. He just wasn't a good recruiter. He wouldn't have been a good recruiter running a different offense and the offense he did run didn't appeal to many recruits, especially the top ones. Spending more would have eased the burden a little, but it wouldn't have gotten rid of the other issues in regards to recruiting.
 
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