IF Pastner is fired, who would be a good hire to replace him?

[Ramble1885]

We know nothing about who will be on the roster next year. Playing on a horrible team combined with Pastner’s penchant for strange player rotations and his tendency to bury guys at the end of the bench for entire seasons will have a lot of the current players thinking about transferring. The portal, who knows, but quoting Terry as a benchmark for portal transfers is not a strong point. He’s had a small handful of impactful performances, but has been mostly subpar for ACC level basketball. Obviously we don’t have even a serviceable big man, and there is no reason to think that will change next season. Blue Cain better be an ACC all-freshman type of player if you are expecting much out of this team next year.

Him and Devion Smith together could be a lethal guard combo.

 

[Ramble1885]

Let me be clear, I think JP needs to go. But I don't want to put the GTAA in even more of a hole money-wise.

 

[Root4GT]

Have you been to a game lately? It is actually not as bad as you might think. There haven't been many games that I have missed this year, and we have had a decent crowd at most.

Yes, there have been times when opposing fans help fill it, but that hasn't always been the case. There was a decent crowd for Florida Tech.

There are many in the fan base that want to see him gone, some more vocal than others, but there are a lot that would be okay with him turning things around and being successful.

At the least, you should want him to right the ship long enough to allow Batt to acquire the capital needed to adjust the underlying issues.

Rest assured, there are issues at play that are well beyond Pastner's coaching abilities. Those issues are also the most difficult to resolve IMO.

I would love to see CJP turn the ship around and as I have said many times there are deeper issues with the GT BB program than just the coach. I am not sure that CJP is the guy to make sure the AD and President understand all the issues needed to make GT BB relevant in the ACC.

While the "structural" issues are significant, the coaching issues are also apparent. Year after year it takes 20+ games for the team to settle into a rotation and scheme that get the players best efforts. There is no reason it should take 2/3rds of the season to achieve that.

Again I would prefer, if we are going to make a change, that the new guy had a big hand in addressing the deeper problems associated with GT BB. Bottom line is we all want GT BB to actually be good.

As I live in Northern Virginia I haven't been to a game recently. What shows up on TV is a whole lot of empty seats and very low energy for most of the games. If that isn't the case, it's how it comes across on TV.

The other indication of dropping fan interest is how few people comment on GT BB games on any of the GT message boards. Basically the people that do are the most hard core GT fans. We appear to be a population facing extinction. Again I hope I am wrong and CJP turns the program around. I just don't have much hope based on his 7 year tenure.

 

[gte447f]

Him and Devion Smith together could be a lethal guard combo.

I hope so, but I’ll believe it when I see it for both of them. Deivon is a hell of an athlete, but he’s a long way from being a lethal point guard.

 

[gte447f]

I would love to see CJP turn the ship around and as I have said many times there are deeper issues with the GT BB program than just the coach. I am not sure that CJP is the guy to make sure the AD and President understand all the issues needed to make GT BB relevant in the ACC.

While the "structural" issues are significant, the coaching issues are also apparent. Year after year it takes 20+ games for the team to settle into a rotation and scheme that get the players best efforts. There is no reason it should take 2/3rds of the season to achieve that.

Again I would prefer, if we are going to make a change, that the new guy had a big hand in addressing the deeper problems associated with GT BB. Bottom line is we all want GT BB to actually be good.

As I live in Northern Virginia I haven't been to a game recently. What shows up on TV is a whole lot of empty seats and very low energy for most of the games. If that isn't the case, it's how it comes across on TV.

The other indication of dropping fan interest is how few people comment on GT BB games on any of the GT message boards. Basically the people that do are the most hard core GT fans. We appear to be a population facing extinction. Again I hope I am wrong and CJP turns the program around. I just don't have much hope based on his 7 year tenure.

Root, I don’t agree with all of your takes, but take it from me, a diehard GT fan and bball season ticket holder who attends 90% of all home games, your perception of the state McCamish Pavillion is accurate since pretty much the Duke embarrassment.

 

[lv20gt]

We know nothing about who will be on the roster next year. Playing on a horrible team combined with Pastner’s penchant for strange player rotations and his tendency to bury guys at the end of the bench for entire seasons will have a lot of the current players thinking about transferring. The portal, who knows, but quoting Terry as a benchmark for portal transfers is not a strong point. He’s had a small handful of impactful performances, but has been mostly subpar for ACC level basketball. Obviously we don’t have even a serviceable big man, and there is no reason to think that will change next season. Blue Cain better be an ACC all-freshman type of player if you are expecting much out of this team next year.

The only players that would likely consider transferring based on that are guys like Maxwell and Meka who haven't really contributed much in a couple of seasons. It would hurt depth to some extent but likely not have a huge impact on the season. In fact with Cain coming in it would likely be beneficial for Maxwell to transfer to give us more roster flexibility. Coleman, Kelly, Smith, Sturdivant, Terry, and Moore should all be reliably back next year with the only real concern, to me, being someone like Kelly looking for an NIL payday. Bagatskis and Martynov will almost certainly not transfer as neither one was probably expecting to play much. The former waited until after his summer stuff to enroll, and the latter was a late reclassification that was probably viewing the time in the development program the primary reason for enrolling early. But we should be returning the following fairly reliably next year with their eligibility listed.

PG - Sturdivant (SR) /Smith (JR)
SG - Kelly (JR)/ Cain (FR)
SF - Coleman (JR)/ Terry (SR)
PF - Moore (JR)/ Bagatskis (soph or maybe r. FR?)
C - Howard (SR)/Martynov (soph or maybe r.fr?)

I think it's very likely that Maxwell transfers given the situation and wouldn't be surprised if Meka does as well. Perhaps Howard does as well.

In any case, the back court is set up well. Sturdivant and Smith aren't world beaters but they are a solid duo, will have a ton of experience, and in particular Smith has a ton of potential but needs to work with consistency. They are combining for over 15 a game, but are playing about 5 minutes on average together. Kelly is coming into his own averaging over 13 a game, and Coleman, Terry, and Moore are each averaging over 8 a game, Moore in just 22 minutes. With those 5, excluding Moore, at the 1-3 along with adding Cain and the back court is set up well. Moore at the 4 might be a bit undersized but not significantly most of the time, and he'd likely have an athleticism advantage when he is at a height disadvantage. That group as a whole should also be improving incrementally, as you expect returning players to do, and it's within the realm of possibility we see big strides from one or two as we've seen with some players in the past. That group playing better and developing is a big reason we've been much more competitive the last 6 games than we were for earlier in the career.

The elephant in the room is the loss of Franklin who's play has also been a huge reason we've been more competitive recently as well. But the two things to consider are that we aren't the only team that will lose a player (likely more than 1) that is contributing, but also Franklin fits a pattern with Pastner that he's done well with players at the 5 who have skills that allow them to be effective away from the basket (Lammers, Wright and now Franklin) but has struggled on the offensive end utilizing more pure post players (Howard and Banks). That means that I think it's possible Marytnov, who's skill set is more in the effective away from the basket range than Howard, could become a contributor, but more likely we will be able to find a serviceable replacement out of the portal because while true 6-11 centers with range and/or passing ability will be extremely sought after, an undersized center with a high motor is likely much more attainable and we can likely land that. Will that work out as well as Franklin has the past several games? Don't know, but the track record suggests that the staff could utilize that kind of skill set well which means I think it's more likely we land a replacement from the portal that more or less fills that gap.

The other option, is that if Pastner is retained I would expect at least some shake up in the assistants. It wouldn't surprise me if we brought in an assistant with the idea of reworking the offense to be more focused on the wings/guards and to better utilize Howard in a way that doesn't require him to facilitate.

 

[Techwood Relict]

I believe this 100% correct. If GT can't support Pastner then it likely cannot support a replacement. Short of an ACC level big and a healthy PG this not a bad team. Pastner may not be here long term but I don't think we can do a lot better without more money. Paying Josh $2.5M to leave doesn't help with that.

I agree regarding the monetary support, but I do think a scheme change would improve outcomes. CJP has been fairly rigid in his playing style and it hasn't worked as well as I'd (we'd?) like in recent times. That's where I think the coaching change would impact the most.

 

[daddee724]

The only players that would likely consider transferring based on that are guys like Maxwell and Meka who haven't really contributed much in a couple of seasons. It would hurt depth to some extent but likely not have a huge impact on the season. In fact with Cain coming in it would likely be beneficial for Maxwell to transfer to give us more roster flexibility. Coleman, Kelly, Smith, Sturdivant, Terry, and Moore should all be reliably back next year with the only real concern, to me, being someone like Kelly looking for an NIL payday. Bagatskis and Martynov will almost certainly not transfer as neither one was probably expecting to play much. The former waited until after his summer stuff to enroll, and the latter was a late reclassification that was probably viewing the time in the development program the primary reason for enrolling early. But we should be returning the following fairly reliably next year with their eligibility listed.

PG - Sturdivant (SR) /Smith (JR)
SG - Kelly (JR)/ Cain (FR)
SF - Coleman (JR)/ Terry (SR)
PF - Moore (JR)/ Bagatskis (soph or maybe r. FR?)
C - Howard (SR)/Martynov (soph or maybe r.fr?)

I think it's very likely that Maxwell transfers given the situation and wouldn't be surprised if Meka does as well. Perhaps Howard does as well.

In any case, the back court is set up well. Sturdivant and Smith aren't world beaters but they are a solid duo, will have a ton of experience, and in particular Smith has a ton of potential but needs to work with consistency. They are combining for over 15 a game, but are playing about 5 minutes on average together. Kelly is coming into his own averaging over 13 a game, and Coleman, Terry, and Moore are each averaging over 8 a game, Moore in just 22 minutes. With those 5, excluding Moore, at the 1-3 along with adding Cain and the back court is set up well. Moore at the 4 might be a bit undersized but not significantly most of the time, and he'd likely have an athleticism advantage when he is at a height disadvantage. That group as a whole should also be improving incrementally, as you expect returning players to do, and it's within the realm of possibility we see big strides from one or two as we've seen with some players in the past. That group playing better and developing is a big reason we've been much more competitive the last 6 games than we were for earlier in the career.

The elephant in the room is the loss of Franklin who's play has also been a huge reason we've been more competitive recently as well. But the two things to consider are that we aren't the only team that will lose a player (likely more than 1) that is contributing, but also Franklin fits a pattern with Pastner that he's done well with players at the 5 who have skills that allow them to be effective away from the basket (Lammers, Wright and now Franklin) but has struggled on the offensive end utilizing more pure post players (Howard and Banks). That means that I think it's possible Marytnov, who's skill set is more in the effective away from the basket range than Howard, could become a contributor, but more likely we will be able to find a serviceable replacement out of the portal because while true 6-11 centers with range and/or passing ability will be extremely sought after, an undersized center with a high motor is likely much more attainable and we can likely land that. Will that work out as well as Franklin has the past several games? Don't know, but the track record suggests that the staff could utilize that kind of skill set well which means I think it's more likely we land a replacement from the portal that more or less fills that gap.

The other option, is that if Pastner is retained I would expect at least some shake up in the assistants. It wouldn't surprise me if we brought in an assistant with the idea of reworking the offense to be more focused on the wings/guards and to better utilize Howard in a way that doesn't require him to facilitate.

I have said before concerning our 3 sophomores in regards to transfer portal, if they come back and Pastner is likely to be fired after next season. Would it make sense for them to transfer out for their Jr & Sr years to have that time to adapt to a new system versus a new coach their senior season? I would not want to gamble on my senior season and a new coach could bring in whatever players he wants or pushes them out. They did not have the luxury of a plus Covid year like these others players

 

[lv20gt]

I have said before concerning our 3 sophomores in regards to transfer portal, if they come back and Pastner is likely to be fired after next season. Would it make sense for them to transfer out for their Jr & Sr years to have that time to adapt to a new system versus a new coach their senior season? I would not want to gamble on my senior season and a new coach could bring in whatever players he wants or pushes them out. They did not have the luxury of a plus Covid year like these others players

There is 0% chance Kelly, Coleman or Moore would be pushed out by a new coach their senior years. They would be 3 and 4 year starters who are, as sophomore, putting up 13,9,and 8. A new coach would almost certainly make it a priority to keep them. They might transfer, but it would almost certainly not be because of fear of getting pushed out but rather seeing better opportunities elsewhere. And in terms of systems, that is less of an issue in basketball than football, especially in regards to wings and guards. There's no system that would be run that wouldn't utilize their skills sets.

 

[Ramble1885]

Here's another man with a lot of experience that could work out, Akron's John Groce. Coached at Ohio U, Illinois, and Akron. Took Ohio to sweet sixteen. While he was fired from Illinois, he still had an NCAAT trip, as well as three NIT appearances. He went to Akron who had been successful under the coach before him. He struggled at first but since then he's had five straight winning seasons, a tournament trip last year, and likely some kind of postseason trip this year. (Akron is 19-9 right now.) They also went 24-7 in 2020, so he nearly had 2 NCAAT berths if it wasn't for COVID.

Notable accomplishments- (plus the team he was coaching)
Upset 3 seed Georgetown in 2010 NCAA first round (Ohio)
Upset Michigan and South Florida to make 2012 Sweet Sixteen, nearly beat UNC but fell in overtime (Ohio)
Finished ranked in the 2012 top 25 (Ohio)
Upset #10 Gonzaga in 2012 (Illinois)
Upset #8 Ohio State in 2013 (Illinois)
Beat #1 Indiana in 2013, probably his signature win. (Illinois)
Only had one losing season at UI before being fired in 2017. Won 20 games in his last season.
MAC regular season champs, COVID happened so no postseason. (2019-20)
MAC champions, lost to UCLA in first round. (2022)

He's 51 years old so he's got a few years left in him.

Would be a solid choice if we're running out of options.

 

[g0lftime]

The only players that would likely consider transferring based on that are guys like Maxwell and Meka who haven't really contributed much in a couple of seasons. It would hurt depth to some extent but likely not have a huge impact on the season. In fact with Cain coming in it would likely be beneficial for Maxwell to transfer to give us more roster flexibility. Coleman, Kelly, Smith, Sturdivant, Terry, and Moore should all be reliably back next year with the only real concern, to me, being someone like Kelly looking for an NIL payday. Bagatskis and Martynov will almost certainly not transfer as neither one was probably expecting to play much. The former waited until after his summer stuff to enroll, and the latter was a late reclassification that was probably viewing the time in the development program the primary reason for enrolling early. But we should be returning the following fairly reliably next year with their eligibility listed.

PG - Sturdivant (SR) /Smith (JR)
SG - Kelly (JR)/ Cain (FR)
SF - Coleman (JR)/ Terry (SR)
PF - Moore (JR)/ Bagatskis (soph or maybe r. FR?)
C - Howard (SR)/Martynov (soph or maybe r.fr?)

I think it's very likely that Maxwell transfers given the situation and wouldn't be surprised if Meka does as well. Perhaps Howard does as well.

In any case, the back court is set up well. Sturdivant and Smith aren't world beaters but they are a solid duo, will have a ton of experience, and in particular Smith has a ton of potential but needs to work with consistency. They are combining for over 15 a game, but are playing about 5 minutes on average together. Kelly is coming into his own averaging over 13 a game, and Coleman, Terry, and Moore are each averaging over 8 a game, Moore in just 22 minutes. With those 5, excluding Moore, at the 1-3 along with adding Cain and the back court is set up well. Moore at the 4 might be a bit undersized but not significantly most of the time, and he'd likely have an athleticism advantage when he is at a height disadvantage. That group as a whole should also be improving incrementally, as you expect returning players to do, and it's within the realm of possibility we see big strides from one or two as we've seen with some players in the past. That group playing better and developing is a big reason we've been much more competitive the last 6 games than we were for earlier in the career.

The elephant in the room is the loss of Franklin who's play has also been a huge reason we've been more competitive recently as well. But the two things to consider are that we aren't the only team that will lose a player (likely more than 1) that is contributing, but also Franklin fits a pattern with Pastner that he's done well with players at the 5 who have skills that allow them to be effective away from the basket (Lammers, Wright and now Franklin) but has struggled on the offensive end utilizing more pure post players (Howard and Banks). That means that I think it's possible Marytnov, who's skill set is more in the effective away from the basket range than Howard, could become a contributor, but more likely we will be able to find a serviceable replacement out of the portal because while true 6-11 centers with range and/or passing ability will be extremely sought after, an undersized center with a high motor is likely much more attainable and we can likely land that. Will that work out as well as Franklin has the past several games? Don't know, but the track record suggests that the staff could utilize that kind of skill set well which means I think it's more likely we land a replacement from the portal that more or less fills that gap.

The other option, is that if Pastner is retained I would expect at least some shake up in the assistants. It wouldn't surprise me if we brought in an assistant with the idea of reworking the offense to be more focused on the wings/guards and to better utilize Howard in a way that doesn't require him to facilitate.

I agree the need to rework his staff. They have failed Pastner miserably with recruiting.

 

[panther42]

Ffs, fire into the dirt. WE ARE AN ACC SCHOOL

I don't disagree that we should be getting a bigger name, but who followed Bobby Cremins? A guy from George Mason. Sometimes the best option isn't the guy with the biggest profile. EX: Chan Gailey.

 

[MWBATL]

I don't disagree that we should be getting a bigger name, but who followed Bobby Cremins? A guy from George Mason. Sometimes the best option isn't the guy with the biggest profile. EX: Chan Gailey.

George Mason? You mean Siena?

 

[GTpdm]

Didn't they offer the parents the option?

I think the option was, “…and an extra bag of cash if you report one of our conference rivals for a committing a recruiting violation with your son.”

 

[LawTalkin Jacket]

Here's another man with a lot of experience that could work out, Akron's John Groce. Coached at Ohio U, Illinois, and Akron. Took Ohio to sweet sixteen. While he was fired from Illinois, he still had an NCAAT trip, as well as three NIT appearances. He went to Akron who had been successful under the coach before him. He struggled at first but since then he's had five straight winning seasons, a tournament trip last year, and likely some kind of postseason trip this year. (Akron is 19-9 right now.) They also went 24-7 in 2020, so he nearly had 2 NCAAT berths if it wasn't for COVID.

Notable accomplishments- (plus the team he was coaching)
Upset 3 seed Georgetown in 2010 NCAA first round (Ohio)
Upset Michigan and South Florida to make 2012 Sweet Sixteen, nearly beat UNC but fell in overtime (Ohio)
Finished ranked in the 2012 top 25 (Ohio)
Upset #10 Gonzaga in 2012 (Illinois)
Upset #8 Ohio State in 2013 (Illinois)
Beat #1 Indiana in 2013, probably his signature win. (Illinois)
Only had one losing season at UI before being fired in 2017. Won 20 games in his last season.
MAC regular season champs, COVID happened so no postseason. (2019-20)
MAC champions, lost to UCLA in first round. (2022)

He's 51 years old so he's got a few years left in him.

Would be a solid choice if we're running out of options.

Per the interwebs, Akron's John Groce is earning about $650k per year

 

[Silk3]

Isnt Cain a pg? Hope so

 

[Root4GT]

Isnt Cain a pg? Hope so

No, combo guard.

 

[daddee724]

No, combo guard.

Well JP hasn't used his combo guards in the right facets

 

[LargeFO]

We’re basically quibbling over inaccurate box score attendance. I watched the FIT game. There’s no way on earth there was over 3000 people actually there. Box reports 4890 I think. Even if that was accurate, which it’s not, that’s not even 60% of capacity. Which has been the case all season. So we’re basically arguing over crappy attendance vs. extremely crappy.

 

[Techwood Relict]

So we’re basically arguing over crappy attendance vs. extremely crappy.

crapacious

Crapacious attendance? Sorry, somebody tee'd it up, I had to swing.