IF Pastner is fired, who would be a good hire to replace him?

[slugboy]

We didn't illegally drop bags like dook.

Or even Xavier

If NIL is the problem, what explains the last 15 years of mediocre / poor talent (leaving out Jose and Moses)

I’m not sure what all happened. Gregory started in 2011, and he had 5 top 100 players (of various years) his first year. He had 7 the next year. He had 6 the year after that (in 2013-14, including Marcus Georges-Hunt, who went NBA). The next year, he had 3, including Tadric Jackson. In 2015-16, he had 2.
In 2016-17, Pastner was our new coach, and we had 2 top 100 players—Josh Okogie was on the roster, but not top 100. Same in 2017-18. Also 2 top 100 players in 2018-19, and one was a transfer (Banks). Same in 2019-2020. In 2020-21, we were down to one RSCI top 100 player.
Last season, we were back up to 3 in Devoe, Coleman, and Smith. This year, we have two.
In contrast, Hewitt’s 2009 class had 6 top 100 players, including a #1 (Favors), #19 (Lawal), #22 (Shumpert), and #34 (Udofia).

Gregory started with a solid recruiting stream and it withered under his coaching tenure. It hasn’t recovered under Pastner.

 

[GTpdm]

We didn't illegally drop bags like dook.

Correction. Duke didn’t drop bags (of cash). They dropped real estate...and bags (of cash).

 

[MWBATL]

Correction. Duke didn’t drop bags (of cash). They dropped real estate...and bags (of cash).

Didn't they offer the parents the option?

 

[Root4GT]

Or, let's make an immediate change with no preparation, and continue like this for five more years.

Pastner may not be the answer, and might not be at GT for long. Even so, the program is not in a good position as compared to the rest of the ACC. Changing the HC will not change that. I don't think there is ANY coach who will get GT into a good position unless the structure is fixed. I don't think there is any outstanding coach who will accept the position at GT unless the structure is fixed first.

It is like wanting to change the wallpaper and furniture at your house while the foundation and structure of the house is rotting away. If the structure of the program isn't fixed, GT will never be relevant again. I am not saying to "let it ride for a while longer". I am saying fix the d*** structure first, then decide what the next steps are. Trying to change the HC before fixing the other things is like the attitude of a three year old throwing a tantrum.

Unquestionably there needs to be improvements in everything related to the basketball program. Unfortunately keeping this “team” in place will simply make it harder to make needed changes. There is almost zero interest in GT BB now and next year looks like it will be as bad or worse.

GT BB is losing a lot of money at the gate. Bad losing basketball attracts no fans.

There are lots of good coaches who would jump at the opportunity to coach GTBB, especially if the AD and President say they will support the changes a good new HC will want.

Don’t make changes for the outgoing guy, make the changes the new guy wants.

Most likely next year is rinse and repeat and we are having these same discussions this time next year. Of course there will be fewer GT fans who bother to even discuss GTBB by then.

 

[g0lftime]

Unquestionably there needs to be improvements in everything related to the basketball program. Unfortunately keeping this “team” in place will simply make it harder to make needed changes. There is almost zero interest in GT BB now and next year looks like it will be as bad or worse.

GT BB is losing a lot of money at the gate. Bad losing basketball attracts no fans.

There are lots of good coaches who would jump at the opportunity to coach GTBB, especially if the AD and President say they will support the changes a good new HC will want.

Don’t make changes for the outgoing guy, make the changes the new guy wants.

Most likely next year is rinse and repeat and we are having these same discussions this time next year. Of course there will be fewer GT fans who bother to even discuss GTBB by then.

It's almost inevitable that Batt needs to make a coaching change just to renew interest in the program next year.

 

[mkemkay]

It's almost inevitable that Batt needs to make a coaching change just to renew interest in the program next year.

Right. It feels like the question is more "can we afford not to let CJP go?"

We're already cratered, but another year of this would salt the earth so no green shoots can grow, fan-/ attendance-wise

 

[awbuzz]

...
Most likely next year is rinse and repeat and we are having these same discussions this time next year. Of course there will be fewer GT fans who bother to even discuss GTBB by then.

Check out all the comments about last night's game... Up to 24 as of 8AM!!! Wow!!!

 

[orientalnc]

Right. It feels like the question is more "can we afford not to let CJP go?"

We're already cratered, but another year of this would salt the earth so no green shoots can grow, fan-/ attendance-wise

For me, Batt has to balance this question v. the chance of getting a new coach who is measurably better than Pastner.

 

[Connell62]

Unquestionably there needs to be improvements in everything related to the basketball program. Unfortunately keeping this “team” in place will simply make it harder to make needed changes. There is almost zero interest in GT BB now and next year looks like it will be as bad or worse.

GT BB is losing a lot of money at the gate. Bad losing basketball attracts no fans.

There are lots of good coaches who would jump at the opportunity to coach GTBB, especially if the AD and President say they will support the changes a good new HC will want.

Don’t make changes for the outgoing guy, make the changes the new guy wants.

Most likely next year is rinse and repeat and we are having these same discussions this time next year. Of course there will be fewer GT fans who bother to even discuss GTBB by then.

Have you been to a game lately? It is actually not as bad as you might think. There haven't been many games that I have missed this year, and we have had a decent crowd at most.

Yes, there have been times when opposing fans help fill it, but that hasn't always been the case. There was a decent crowd for Florida Tech.

There are many in the fan base that want to see him gone, some more vocal than others, but there are a lot that would be okay with him turning things around and being successful.

At the least, you should want him to right the ship long enough to allow Batt to acquire the capital needed to adjust the underlying issues.

Rest assured, there are issues at play that are well beyond Pastner's coaching abilities. Those issues are also the most difficult to resolve IMO.

 

[AUFC]

Don’t make changes for the outgoing guy, make the changes the new guy wants.

I almost guarantee you Pastner and “the new guy” want the exact same things. NIL, institutional support, NIL, and NIL.

Either we show commitment to those needs and give Pastner what he needs to be successful or we pay him $2.5m and sit in a holding pattern with another Pastner-tier coach until we fulfill those coach wants.

 

[orientalnc]

I almost guarantee you Pastner and “the new guy” want the exact same things. NIL, institutional support, NIL, and NIL.

Either we show commitment to those needs and give Pastner what he needs to be successful or we pay him $2.5m and sit in a holding pattern with another Pastner-tier coach until we fulfill those coach wants.

I believe this 100% correct. If GT can't support Pastner then it likely cannot support a replacement. Short of an ACC level big and a healthy PG this not a bad team. Pastner may not be here long term but I don't think we can do a lot better without more money. Paying Josh $2.5M to leave doesn't help with that.

 

[LargeFO]

Have you been to a game lately? It is actually not as bad as you might think. There haven't been many games that I have missed this year, and we have had a decent crowd at most.

Yes, there have been times when opposing fans help fill it, but that hasn't always been the case. There was a decent crowd for Florida Tech.

There are many in the fan base that want to see him gone, some more vocal than others, but there are a lot that would be okay with him turning things around and being successful.

At the least, you should want him to right the ship long enough to allow Batt to acquire the capital needed to adjust the underlying issues.

Rest assured, there are issues at play that are well beyond Pastner's coaching abilities. Those issues are also the most difficult to resolve IMO.

They've mostly been pretty empty. Maybe 50% most games? The box score attendances are never accurate.

Was at ND game and there was huge gaps of seats open. Security basically said move on down some if you'd like.

 

[Connell62]

They've mostly been pretty empty. Maybe 50% most games? The box score attendances are never accurate.

Was at ND game and there was huge gaps of seats open. Security basically said move on down some if you'd like.

Id say probably in the 55-60% range most nights. Listed attendance for Florida Tech was 4800, and I think that full capacity is 9900.

For the Duke game, there was 7300, Cuse was 5500. There have been some good crowds this year. I wouldn't say that it has been pretty empty.

 

[lv20gt]

If you're looking at attendance, then just firing Pastner and getting a new coach won't have much of an impact if the follow up hire is a dud. Probably a small bump because of switching coaches honeymoon phase, but it won't likely be significant if the new coach doesn't perform in such a way to actually generate belief long terms. There are certainly some coaches who would spark that level of interest right away but a lot of the names listed here aren't going to move the needle in that regard until they start winning.

 

[joehamiltonfan14]

Beyond out on Pastner. This program is going nowhere, and the only question is is he fired this year or next? Let’s be honest, there’s no way this team makes the tourney next year. Pastner has had two years to sign an impact big man and has failed to do so. The right coach can turn this ship around. NIL support has to be much less than football. The fact is, Pastner can’t recruit. He has had seven years to do so and has failed. I like him personally, but this program is going nowhere until he’s gone.

I’ve been to almost every home game and attendance is awful. At this point we’re losing more in ticket sales than the minuscule savings from waiting to buyout him in another year. 2.5 million to buy out a power five basketball coach is chump change.

 

[Ramble1885]

Considering his buyout, the current state of the team, and who would be on the roster next year, I think we should give Pastner ONE MORE year. If there's no improvement next year, then fire him. But with Blue Cain (4 star 6 foot shooting guard) coming next year, and us likely to get 1-2 guys out the portal (similar to Terry/Franklin) I think it's the best option for the program long term.

 

[gte447f]

Id say probably in the 55-60% range most nights. Listed attendance for Florida Tech was 4800, and I think that full capacity is 9900.

For the Duke game, there was 7300, Cuse was 5500. There have been some good crowds this year. I wouldn't say that it has been pretty empty.

C62, I love your support, but come on. First of all, capacity at McCamish is 8600. Second, attendance is terrible right now. Sections 108, 109, and 110 (all sideline season ticket holders) have been about 80-90% empty at tip-off for the last several games by my estimation. They fill in a little after the game starts, but a lot of those people are just cherry picking better seats than what they paid for. If Duke is not a sellout, you’ve got major problems.

 

[Ramble1885]

another note on attendance. It's been poor but it's been around the same as last year. Averaging a little over half full per game. No matter who our coach is I don't think it makes much of a difference.

Also even with the less than ideal crowds, McCamish has been LOUD at times this year. The uga, miami, and ND wins are some of the loudest I've heard McCamish.

 

[gte447f]

Considering his buyout, the current state of the team, and who would be on the roster next year, I think we should give Pastner ONE MORE year. If there's no improvement next year, then fire him. But with Blue Cain (4 star 6 foot shooting guard) coming next year, and us likely to get 1-2 guys out the portal (similar to Terry/Franklin) I think it's the best option for the program long term.

We know nothing about who will be on the roster next year. Playing on a horrible team combined with Pastner’s penchant for strange player rotations and his tendency to bury guys at the end of the bench for entire seasons will have a lot of the current players thinking about transferring. The portal, who knows, but quoting Terry as a benchmark for portal transfers is not a strong point. He’s had a small handful of impactful performances, but has been mostly subpar for ACC level basketball. Obviously we don’t have even a serviceable big man, and there is no reason to think that will change next season. Blue Cain better be an ACC all-freshman type of player if you are expecting much out of this team next year.

 

[Ramble1885]

Our program is in a slump, but it's something P5 programs will go through. Louisville has been god awful since the Pitino scandal. Wake Forest is decent now, but they had a decade of darkness from the late 00's to late 2010's. Virginia is a powerhouse now but they were terrible in between Terry Holland and Tony Bennett, which was about 20 years. Houston is perhaps the best team in the nation, but after Guy Lewis retired they had a long down period of their own. Pittsburgh had a horrid 2010's decade, they're just starting to get back on track.

Let's not forget how bad WE were in the pre-cremins years. Only two "good" seasons in seven decades. I'd take Pastner over Dwane Morrison any day.

Count your blessings.