I will be seriously PO'd

Longestday

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
2,856
  • CPJ has done more with less stars than UNC, Miami, Virginia, and to some degree VT. (Who does not believe we would be 8-9 win seasons with Duke's schedule)
  • Given enough resources, CPJ can get the talent we need and he looks to be doing what needs to be done.
  • The last 7 years has been tougher than ever in getting a student in and through Tech.
CPJ can take us to the next level and I believe he will in the next 2 to 3 years. No, this not always the next year rant. This is my opinion based on getting program running on all cylinders.
 

ATL1

Helluva Engineer
Messages
7,377
Does the offense limit recruiting? Yes
Does the academics limit recruiting? Yes
Does the limited majors limit recruiting? Yes
Is the coach blowing doors record wise in a weak ACC? No
Is he a strong recruiter despite limitations? No
Did you win at the same/similar clip with previous coach? Yes
I DO NOT understand this bizarre loyalty.

And I present again Stanford...
http://m.mic.com/articles/101630/st...ll-players-with-the-smartest-pitch-imaginable
 

Bruce Wayne

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,870
For reference I believe (haven't done the research to prove this so it basically comes from what Paul Hewitt said once) that some of the UNC degree programs are such that the student can earn a bachelor's degree in something like 25% less credit hours than any degree at Tech. This isn't a matter of just finagling what number of "hours" or "credits" you assign to a course. It means that a student there can take just as many courses and be in the classroom an equal number of actual hours each week and semester as a student at Tech but can get a degree in 1/4 less the amount of time. So then stretch those course requirements of such a degree program into up to 5 years of real world time and you are talking about a huge difference in experience qua student-athlete.

You have to account for both core curriculum requirements as well as degree requirements in trying to compare colleges.
 

Longestday

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
2,856
Does the offense limit recruiting? Yes, but how much more than the school itself compared to past recruiting classes. I believe it has been proven that recruiting has been about the same.
Does the academics limit recruiting? Yes
Does the limited majors limit recruiting? Yes
Is the coach blowing doors record wise in a weak ACC? Anyone else blowing doors off with more star power?
Is he a strong recruiter despite limitations? No, He is getting better and we are on a upswing
Did you win at the same/similar clip with previous coach? Yes, with more points scored and a chance that if we slightly improve on defense we get so much better?
I DO NOT understand this bizarre loyalty. Loyalty with the knowledge we are not bad, have been in 90% of our games to the end, and have the potential to be so much better with a recruiting trajectory that could move us forward.

No one would be loyal if we were 5 and 6 win seasons, recruiting on the decline, and a special teams dumpster fire. We also realize the next coach will face 80% of the same obstacles as CPJ and possibly remove 20% while getting less out of the current players.

CPJ is a good coach at a school that limits possibilities... not the other way around.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
Does the offense limit recruiting? Yes
Does the academics limit recruiting? Yes
Does the limited majors limit recruiting? Yes
Is the coach blowing doors record wise in a weak ACC? No
Is he a strong recruiter despite limitations? No
Did you win at the same/similar clip with previous coach? Yes
I DO NOT understand this bizarre loyalty.

And I present again Stanford...
http://m.mic.com/articles/101630/st...ll-players-with-the-smartest-pitch-imaginable

Since you've made these points before, I'm sure that you are prepared to answer the questions addressed to some of these points earlier:
1) What data do you have that the offense limits recruiting? You assert this as a fact. Now if you are posting your opinion that it seems to you that our offense would limit recruiting, that's fine. However, it seems to me that asserting as fact that it does limit recruiting requires some data to substantiate it.

4) What's your standard for calling the ACC weak? The VPI team we beat had beat tOSU. The UNC team that beat us by less than a score played ND to less than a score. Duke played TxA&M close in a bowl game last year. UVA played UCLA to within a score. It may not be SEC strong, but the ACC doesn't seem to me to be that weak, especially compared to previous seasons. So, what's the standard for your assessment?

8) We've presented evidence previously that Stanford does not have minimum entrance requirements, no required HS courses, no required HS GPA, no required SAT or ACT scores. They also have easier majors. Why do you feel that you are not offering an apples vs oranges argument in raising this issue?

Thanks
 

Squints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,254
Last edited:

GTpdm

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,874
Location
Atlanta GA
If I see one more "comparison" between Stanford and Tech I'm going to blow a gasket. Freaking apples to freaking oranges............Sheesh!

Exactly..."ooh, look at Stanford's earning potential!" Forget even comparing it to ours—none of their actual players make anything near the salary they quote (unless they go NFL), because their players are majoring in Comparative Literature or Childhood Development.

Stop holding up Stanford as someone we should emulate—you might as well hold up UGA as a role model.
 

Eric

Retired Co-Founder
Messages
12,734
This is Chan Gailey all over again. Enjoy 7-5
I dont get this.

I disagree with that.


2002Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–5th
2003Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–4th
2004Georgia Tech 7–5 4–4 T–6th
2005Georgia Tech 7–5 5– 3rd (Coastal)
2006Georgia Tech 9–5 7– 1st (Coastal)
2007Georgia Tech 7–6 4– 3rd (Coastal)


So out his first 6 seasons chain won 7 games 6 times...every year but 1! 44-32 overall and 28-20 in ACC.

2008Georgia Tech 9–4 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2009Georgia Tech 10–3 7– 1 1st (Coastal)
2010Georgia Tech 6–7 4–4 T–3rd (Coastal)
2011Georgia Tech 8–5 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)
2012Georgia Tech 7–7 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2013Georgia Tech 7–6 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)


Out of CPJ's first 6 seasons he had one 6 year season and two 7...the others were 8,9 and 10. Including this year CPJ is 52-34 overall and 33-19 in ACC play.

I understand not liking CPJ or something like that but I don't think he is similar to Chan.

I would let this season play out first.
 

OldJacketFan

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,348
Location
Nashville, TN
I disagree with that.


2002Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–5th
2003Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–4th
2004Georgia Tech 7–5 4–4 T–6th
2005Georgia Tech 7–5 5– 3rd (Coastal)
2006Georgia Tech 9–5 7– 1st (Coastal)
2007Georgia Tech 7–6 4– 3rd (Coastal)


So out his first 6 seasons chain won 7 games 6 times...every year but 1! 44-32 overall and 28-20 in ACC.

2008Georgia Tech 9–4 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2009Georgia Tech 10–3 7– 1 1st (Coastal)
2010Georgia Tech 6–7 4–4 T–3rd (Coastal)
2011Georgia Tech 8–5 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)
2012Georgia Tech 7–7 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2013Georgia Tech 7–6 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)


Out of CPJ's first 6 seasons he had one 6 year season and two 7...the others were 8,9 and 10. Including this year CPJ is 52-34 overall and 33-19 in ACC play.

I understand not liking CPJ or something like that but I don't think he is similar to Chan.

I would let this season play out first.

Facts???? We don't need no stinkin' facts! :ROFLMAO:
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,966
My goodness guys, prom here the season could be great ( very good offense) or very bad (very bad defense) . If o holds position and d improves, we still could be special. .
The opposite is also true. If we win the last three, regardless of the rest of the games, it will be very good lead in to 2015 - coach has his swagger - let's swarm!
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
I disagree with that.
Conversely, you could argue that their winning percentages aren't that far apart.
Paul Johnson's winning percentage at Tech: 60.9
Chan Gailey's winning percentage at Tech: 57.9

Personally, I think all of these threads are pointless at this point in the season. Whether you like CPJ or don't like CPJ, I think we all agree nothing is going to happen in the middle of the season, nor should it.

Anyone wanting to fire the coach right now in the middle of the season isn't thinking straight. Nor is anyone wanting to talk extensions right now.
 

jeffgt14

We don't quite suck as much anymore.
Messages
5,789
Location
Mt Juliet, TN
I disagree with that.


2002Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–5th
2003Georgia Tech 7–6 4–4 T–4th
2004Georgia Tech 7–5 4–4 T–6th
2005Georgia Tech 7–5 5– 3rd (Coastal)
2006Georgia Tech 9–5 7– 1st (Coastal)
2007Georgia Tech 7–6 4– 3rd (Coastal)


So out his first 6 seasons chain won 7 games 6 times...every year but 1! 44-32 overall and 28-20 in ACC.

2008Georgia Tech 9–4 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2009Georgia Tech 10–3 7– 1 1st (Coastal)
2010Georgia Tech 6–7 4–4 T–3rd (Coastal)
2011Georgia Tech 8–5 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)
2012Georgia Tech 7–7 5–3 T–1st (Coastal)
2013Georgia Tech 7–6 5–3 T–2nd (Coastal)


Out of CPJ's first 6 seasons he had one 6 year season and two 7...the others were 8,9 and 10. Including this year CPJ is 52-34 overall and 33-19 in ACC play.

I understand not liking CPJ or something like that but I don't think he is similar to Chan.

I would let this season play out first.
To be fair you could just look at the last 4 years and it'll look much better for Gailey. I do think this is all pointless though. As far as the eye test goes, I can see more promise in CPJ's teams than I could CCG's. I also think Reggie Ball was the wrong QB for Chan though.
 
Messages
2,077
... If we fire Paul Johnson after this season. The situation at UNC makes even more clear the distinction between schools like that and Tech. We do it the right way. Our SA's are actually students.

And don't take for granted that we're also good. Defensive issues notwithstanding, we're a dangerous team, putting up lots of points. It's fun to watch us play. WE DONT SUCK.

So if we fire PJ because some idiot fans think he doesn't pass enough, or because we aren't contending for the ACC every year, I will be seriously pissed.
Better to be pissed off than pissed on, I always say.
 

Techster

Helluva Engineer
Messages
17,858
You are not off base that much but I don't think you can reduce recruiting to a sales pitch. Sure, Tech has a great sales pitch it can make and you do a nice job of showing how that pitch can be applied to and sell to a somewhat diverse range of high-school student athletes. I have noticed others on various Tech boards who want to treat or reduce football recruiting to Tech to a matter of sales technique and pitch.

So your belief in your last sentence is easily or logically separable from everything that you placed before it as an argument over what a great sales pitch Tech has to offer.

Recruiting is not simply about which coaching staffs "sales pitch" won the day. There are a multitude of factors involved in a kids decision on where to commit. And Tech faces challenges that no other program faces in terms of what actual courses a recruit took in high school. Besides the fact that to have top recruiting classes based on recruiting pay sites rankings you have to oversign and rely on bagmen. So there are several reasons to not expect top 30 recruiting classes based on (as if it could ever be just based on) "everything about GT and what GT can do for any person."

If you keep the evaluative criteria of top 30 classes separate from your presentation of a Tech sales pitch then I agree with your pride in that pitch.

To me, what you're saying is the essence of recruiting. Recruiting = sales...plain and simple. How are you pitching the product? If the product is the same (product being GT), then wouldn't the outcome of "the pitch" be the same for everyone? No...because recruiting is an art and a skill. Some recruit better than others. Giff Smith, Andy McCollum, Ted Roof...all were/are considered very good recruiters. Coach Sewak is not considered a good recruiter. Why can one coach have more success pitching GT and another coach not do as well if the end product is the same...the end product being GT and all that encompasses being a GT SA (high barrier to entry/or high entry requirements, rigorous classes, low coed ratio, etc)? Is it just a coincidence that GT is doing better this year (Ranked #19 by Rivals) now that some of our better recruiters (Roof, Pelton) have had a year to get their feet under them, and that our athletic department is investing in more recruiting resources for the staff?

As others who have intimate knowledge of the SA requirements have said, GT is harder than the average state factory, but there are degrees at GT that are worthwhile for SAs and at the same time very manageable because of the resources at the disposal of those SAs. Like I said in my OP, GT isn't for everyone, but there are MORE than enough high achieving SAs out there who can, and more importantly will, do the work at GT to make us a top level football program. It's been done before, and it can be done again.
 
Top