Hype and the GT fanbase

[Techster]

Hope the hell he gets more than 2.

I said it a few weeks ago, a new coach always ends up getting what the previous coach asked for. Happens at every school. CGC is definitely going to get resources CPJ has asked for...probably multiple times over.

 

[Supersizethatorder-mutt]

I said it a few weeks ago, a new coach always ends up getting what the previous coach asked for. Happens at every school. CGC is definitely going to get resources CPJ has asked for...probably multiple times over.

That's only because Tech now has an AD who understands. If MBob were still at Tech (God forbid), Collins wouldn't have gotten s**t

 

[LibertyTurns]

If Collins doesn't have more resources than CPJ had, then he MIGHT do better recruiting locally, but there's no guarantee of it.

To achieve equal results he’s going to have to out-recruit him. Johnson’s schemes were designed to help neutralize talent disparities. It did by anyone’s measure. His legacy was not what it could be because he couldn’t recruit a superstar dual threat QB & a DL/LBs capable of competing at the level needed to offset weeks where the offense struggled. With this new scheme to be consistently above average we’re going to need to recruit like we have never before except for isolated pockets of time in the last 50 years.

 

[Techster]

That's only because Tech now has an AD who understands. If MBob were still at Tech (God forbid), Collins wouldn't have gotten s**t

MBob was doing that to get rid of CPJ and get his guy in here. MBob was just a sh!tty person to tank our football program just to put his stamp on it.

Anyone remember the tweet back in 2016 (I think it was Dan Wolken) that said CPJ told MBob to pay him his buyout because he no longer wanted to be here? I think it was more true than false given CPJ's recent admission that he almost quit in 2016.

 

[RickStromFan]

Well, you can believe whatever you want to believe, but it was NOT JUST THE SCHEME that hurt recruiting.

nope, not just the scheme. We're a tough place for kids to qualify, much less be interested in academically. The scheme simply added another big hurdle to an already-difficult place to recruit to.

CGC's positivity about using ATL and the GTdegree to our advantage is a welcome change from the last 11 years.

 

[GTonTop88]

Honest question: What exactly do you think CPJ was going to do with more money? We already recruit across the country and even to Hawaii (See Lucas Johnson and Michael Minihan). GT is located in the 4th best recruiting state, and the 2nd best recruiting state is just south of us. You think giving him another million dollars would have overcome 4 and 5 stars not wanting to play in his offense or practice against it? Sure we would have found another 2 or 3 star in some far flung state, but we could have found that in the Southeast. A million dollars isn't changing APR, it isn't changing entrance requirements, it isn't changing the variety of our majors, and it isn't changing how many fans show up to watch us play Gardner Webb or MTSU.

CPJ was here for 10 years. It became apparent that CPJ was a dang good coach, but there was ceiling on his recruiting that he could never overcome.

People who think it was just about $$$ with CPJ are really overlooking the narrative surround his system. Whether GT fans like it our not, it was real, and recruits bought into it. No matter how much money you give CPJ, it wasn't going to overcome the narrative.

^^Exactly... CPJ was a great coach but I can almost guarantee CGCs worst real recruiting class here will be better than CPJs best. Whether it changes our productivity is yet to be seen.

CPJ did benefit from the ACC being terrible for his first 8 years. Nobody was a legitimate consistent top 15 team other than maybe VT.

 

[LibertyTurns]

MBob was doing that to get rid of CPJ and get his guy in here. MBob was just a sh!tty person to tank our football program just to put his stamp on it.

Anyone remember the tweet back in 2016 (I think it was Dan Wolken) that said CPJ told MBob to pay him his buyout because he no longer wanted to be here? I think it was more true than false given CPJ's recent admission that he almost quit in 2016.

Can you imagine the crap hire and idiotic contract that would have ensued? It would certainly have galvanized the fanbase.

 

[RickStromFan]

I don’t know why you guys won’t give up on the past. We have a new coach. He’s going to run a pro Style scheme which is supposed to help recruiting on both sides of the ball. Do we want to compete or not? Why is there so much resistance to stafffing our program like everyone else, upgrading our facilities, etc? I want to give CGC every advantage we can muster.

Just an example but you can design parts with a pencil & a piece of paper. Everyone else uses computers. You think it doesn’t matter. I do. I think it matters a lot. You don’t think that Alabama’s 5 strength and conditioning coaches matter when we have 1? There’s loads of examples like this. This is a business like it or not. We’ve not invested adequately and have nearly run ourselves into the ground. People notice. You get a reputation. It doesn’t go away with 1 new structure and a change of leadership. People are going to watching to see if GT is serious about competing or it’s the same old window dressing BS we’ve seen for decades.

The ones not giving up on the past are the ones reacting negatively to the positive outlook being presented by CGC.

Your analogy is backward. The "pencil and paper" approach is the scheme and attitudes we've had for the past 11 years. CGC appears to be all about embracing modernity, social media, and other stuff millenial players seem to gravitate towards. I'm more like CPJ re: Social media but today's kids love that crap!

We did have a reputation and it wasn't a reputation for being a modern offense. Accurate or not, it worked against us in recruiting.

 

[iceeater1969]

I said it a few weeks ago, a new coach always ends up getting what the previous coach asked for. Happens at every school. CGC is definitely going to get resources CPJ has asked for...probably multiple times over.

Any source?.
Probably told the ad what others were doing. Mbob wasnt able to understand "that's a request" since it wasnt in a demand letter.
That's the ad s job to get the resources = tell the alums we are falling behind.

At some point it's the ad s bosses job to ask - "does football have what it needs to be successful.- show me how u know."

 

[Animal02]

Honest question: What exactly do you think CPJ was going to do with more money? We already recruit across the country and even to Hawaii (See Lucas Johnson and Michael Minihan). GT is located in the 4th best recruiting state, and the 2nd best recruiting state is just south of us. You think giving him another million dollars would have overcome 4 and 5 stars not wanting to play in his offense or practice against it? Sure we would have found another 2 or 3 star in some far flung state, but we could have found that in the Southeast. A million dollars isn't changing APR, it isn't changing entrance requirements, it isn't changing the variety of our majors, and it isn't changing how many fans show up to watch us play Gardner Webb or MTSU.

CPJ was here for 10 years. It became apparent that CPJ was a dang good coach, but there was ceiling on his recruiting that he could never overcome.

People who think it was just about $$$ with CPJ are really overlooking the narrative surround his system. Whether GT fans like it our not, it was real, and recruits bought into it. No matter how much money you give CPJ, it wasn't going to overcome the narrative.

With a staff of 2, as has been reported...compared to Duke with 16.....you have to have you head in the sand to think having more bodies would not help.

 

[Animal02]

The ones not giving up on the past are the ones reacting negatively to the positive outlook being presented by CGC.

Your analogy is backward. The "pencil and paper" approach is the scheme and attitudes we've had for the past 11 years. CGC appears to be all about embracing modernity, social media, and other stuff millenial players seem to gravitate towards. I'm more like CPJ re: Social media but today's kids love that crap!

We did have a reputation and it wasn't a reputation for being a modern offense. Accurate or not, it worked against us in recruiting.

Putting the cart before the horse.....the reputation was a crap weight room, old athletic center, etc etc. The scheme narrative was pushed by a lot of disgruntled fans that gave it constant momentum. I
All the hype won't do diddle without the $$$$ for needed staff and facilities.

 

[Techster]

With a staff of 2, as has been reported...compared to Duke with 16.....you have to have you head in the sand to think having more bodies would not help.

There's this economic principle called diminishing returns. Unfortunately, CPJ's recruiting reached the point of diminishing returns because the scheme hit its ceiling in terms of recruiting. Sure it would have been nice to have 16 guys like Duke, but having 16 guys wasn't going to convince any of the 4 and 5 star QBs from GA the last 10 years (and there were MANY) to come play in this system. Or the RBs, WRs, and even the OLs. Was it ever odd to you that the few 4 stars we got every year, 90% of them were on the defensive side?

Point is, having 16 guys are great...but if those elite players don't want to play in the offense, then we'll have 16 guys who would ultimately have the same results as the 4 guys we already have because there's one factor none of them can overcome...the system that kids just don't want to play in or practice against.

 

[Gold1]

Curious as to how up the season ticket sales are going to be

 

[Vespidae]

With a staff of 2, as has been reported...compared to Duke with 16.....you have to have you head in the sand to think having more bodies would not help.

First, I agree that you need a recruiting staff that is "reasonable". Why do I say that?

One business I ran had 2000 employees and the Finance Dept had 50. "We need 50" they would say. Would 50 finance guys help us sell more? No. Help us deliver more value to customers? No. Overhead. Pure and simple.

We rearranged the business, changed the finance procedures and ... did it with 4. Four. I've seen similar results in other functions. Nothing is as complex as it seems to be.

Does Recruiting add value to Tech? Yes! Does Development? Yes! What does TStan think? He has said that Tech is a team that will succeed through superior Development and not superior recruiting. (Recruit 3 stars and turn them into 4/5).

The Top Talent in the USA comes from 15 metro areas (Atlanta is one). Do you need 16? Probably not. Four? Probably more than 4. But you don't need to match every program just because every other program has 50. (I think I read somewhere that the average recruit gets 200 letters a day and yet ... they still only have 3-4 schools on their "Short list" of where they want to play.)

I think we'd be FAR more productive with front end analysis on the prospects most likely to want to go to Tech and overwhelm those. You CAN do it with fewer resources if you plan for it. From what I read on virtually all of the programs, they all just copy each other.

So that's the plan. Recruit 3*'s, Develop them into 4/5*s ... and you need a reasonable size staff to do that. Comparing to Duke, which DOESN'T believe that, becomes meaningless.

 

[GTonTop88]

First, I agree that you need a recruiting staff that is "reasonable". Why do I say that?

One business I ran had 2000 employees and the Finance Dept had 50. "We need 50" they would say. Would 50 finance guys help us sell more? No. Help us deliver more value to customers? No. Overhead. Pure and simple.

We rearranged the business, changed the finance procedures and ... did it with 4. Four. I've seen similar results in other functions. Nothing is as complex as it seems to be.

Does Recruiting add value to Tech? Yes! Does Development? Yes! What does TStan think? He has said that Tech is a team that will succeed through superior Development and not superior recruiting. (Recruit 3 stars and turn them into 4/5).

The Top Talent in the USA comes from 15 metro areas (Atlanta is one). Do you need 16? Probably not. Four? Probably more than 4. But you don't need to match every program just because every other program has 50. (I think I read somewhere that the average recruit gets 200 letters a day and yet ... they still only have 3-4 schools on their "Short list" of where they want to play.)

I think we'd be FAR more productive with front end analysis on the prospects most likely to want to go to Tech and overwhelm those. You CAN do it with fewer resources if you plan for it. From what I read on virtually all of the programs, they all just copy each other.

So that's the plan. Recruit 3*'s, Develop them into 4/5*s ... and you need a reasonable size staff to do that. Comparing to Duke, which DOESN'T believe that, becomes meaningless.

Exactly it’s kind of like government spending. Keep asking for more and never tell them that we have a surplus. If we have 50 say we could use 60 even if in reality we could get the same results with 20.

 

[tmhunter52]

I hope the AD and the HC understand the importance of growing the GT fan base outside of ATL. Some regular appearances by the HC could gin up excitement and ticket sales.

 

[Animal02]

First, I agree that you need a recruiting staff that is "reasonable". Why do I say that?

One business I ran had 2000 employees and the Finance Dept had 50. "We need 50" they would say. Would 50 finance guys help us sell more? No. Help us deliver more value to customers? No. Overhead. Pure and simple.

We rearranged the business, changed the finance procedures and ... did it with 4. Four. I've seen similar results in other functions. Nothing is as complex as it seems to be.

Does Recruiting add value to Tech? Yes! Does Development? Yes! What does TStan think? He has said that Tech is a team that will succeed through superior Development and not superior recruiting. (Recruit 3 stars and turn them into 4/5).

The Top Talent in the USA comes from 15 metro areas (Atlanta is one). Do you need 16? Probably not. Four? Probably more than 4. But you don't need to match every program just because every other program has 50. (I think I read somewhere that the average recruit gets 200 letters a day and yet ... they still only have 3-4 schools on their "Short list" of where they want to play.)

I think we'd be FAR more productive with front end analysis on the prospects most likely to want to go to Tech and overwhelm those. You CAN do it with fewer resources if you plan for it. From what I read on virtually all of the programs, they all just copy each other.

So that's the plan. Recruit 3*'s, Develop them into 4/5*s ... and you need a reasonable size staff to do that. Comparing to Duke, which DOESN'T believe that, becomes meaningless.

There are about 8 regions that most of the D1 players come from IIRC. Having on recruiter and one support staff per region would not be unreasonable.
Obviously other schools are doing something right since they have caught up to / passed Tech by. We are now going to copy their offenses....seems logical to copy their recruiting
It is not just the spending on recruiting, but on the overall program as well. Kids are looking for the shiny new objects. Schools that have them will be able in a better position to compete for them.
The bigger point is the blame placed on CPJ and the "scheme" as the reason for less than average recruiting. I say it is a structural issue. All the hype about Collins and recruiting is like putting high octane gas is a Ford Focus.....it will run a bit better.....but it still will be a Focus and not a Porsche, Vette, or even Navigator.
So if the plan is to aim for 3* players as you say, and develop them.....why all the complaints about CPJ's recruiting, (not by you) which is essentially what he did. Just a whole lot of hypocrisy by a bunch of posters......
The structural issues at Tech remain.....nothing changes by switching coaches. IMO, that means to overcome that, the proverbial needles in the the haystack must be found (not just hype and saying we are now like all the cool kids) and that will take far more resources than Tech has been spending.

 

[Animal02]

Exactly it’s kind of like government spending. Keep asking for more and never tell them that we have a surplus. If we have 50 say we could use 60 even if in reality we could get the same results with 20.

You "may" get similar results at 20......yet you are only paying for 2. It is like the people that complain about the long lines at the DMV, but suggest paying more for your license and they throw a fit.

 

[Animal02]

There's this economic principle called diminishing returns. Unfortunately, CPJ's recruiting reached the point of diminishing returns because the scheme hit its ceiling in terms of recruiting. Sure it would have been nice to have 16 guys like Duke, but having 16 guys wasn't going to convince any of the 4 and 5 star QBs from GA the last 10 years (and there were MANY) to come play in this system. Or the RBs, WRs, and even the OLs. Was it ever odd to you that the few 4 stars we got every year, 90% of them were on the defensive side?

Point is, having 16 guys are great...but if those elite players don't want to play in the offense, then we'll have 16 guys who would ultimately have the same results as the 4 guys we already have because there's one factor none of them can overcome...the system that kids just don't want to play in or practice against.

So predictable.....the anti option crowd ignore the elephant in the room to focus on the mouse in the corner.

 

[stech81]

I hope the AD and the HC understand the importance of growing the GT fan base outside of ATL. Some regular appearances by the HC could gin up excitement and ticket sales.

Would be nice BUT TV is a killer you can see all the games on TV so if you live over 6 hours I can understand those people only wanting to pick a couple of games . I have had season tickets since 1981 but live in Woodstock which is an easy 3o minute dive ( Unless they are working on l -75 like this past year)