House vs. NCAA

[RonJohn]

You are correct that companies might have very different ideas about how much Gunner Stockton's placement in an ad is worth to their business, but it's for a legit business purpose. Car dealerships advertise like crazy. But, if Trucks Are Us is getting uga players for $500 and Dawg Trucks downtown is paying $10,000, I think the collective is going say no to that deal. What I fear is that the uga collective goes to Dawg Trucks an gives them a big bag of cash if they will hire Gunner to do an ad and pay him $10,000. I don't know how you police that type of cheating. I actually think a bigger issue is that the Auburn collective comes to Gunner and offers him a big bag to come to Auburn, AL, play QB for a college nearby, and do ads for Tiger Trucks.

Do I think teams will cheat? Absolutely. I think the only way to stop it is for a team like uga or Ohio State to get a one or two year death penalty. Certainly there will be screaming and yelling. Also lawsuits. But the cheating will continue as long as the cost of getting caught is manageable.

On the other hand, is someone like Liv Dunne worth $4 million per year in various national endorsements? Obviously she was, because national companies are not going to pay her that much to encourage her to do gymnastics at LSU. What is a football player at Miami or GT is friends with a Hip Hop star and raps on one of their songs while he is in high school. How much would his endorsement be worth to a shoe company, or a watch company, etc.?

How will the clearing house decide cases such as those? In the case of Liv Dunne, I am certain that the national companies were paying her what they thought was a fair price to get the attention that she was going to send to their companies. I do understand trying to reign in supposed "NIL" payments that are meant to be bag man payments to athletes. However, it is unconscionable to me for the schools to limit the ability of anyone to make money on things they had before being in the NCAA, and not directly related to their athletic participation at the school. Can you imagine what a hip hop star being a starting player at Miami would do for their attendance and ratings? Then think, why would would a person who could be making 100s of thousands in legitimate royalties and endorsements play if some accountant at Deloitte arbitrarily says that he shouldn't be allowed to make more than $70k per year?

The big problem in my opinion is that the schools are still trying to mask the actual situation. They have a relationship much more akin to business and labor than amateur athletics. Even if the athletes are labeled as contract labor, a collective bargaining agreement would be a much better way to handle all of the issues, in my opinion. With the way college football and men's basketball have become pure businesses, I think it is amazing that they can maintain their tax-exempt status.

 

[orientalnc]

On the other hand, is someone like Liv Dunne worth $4 million per year in various national endorsements? Obviously she was, because national companies are not going to pay her that much to encourage her to do gymnastics at LSU. What is a football player at Miami or GT is friends with a Hip Hop star and raps on one of their songs while he is in high school. How much would his endorsement be worth to a shoe company, or a watch company, etc.?

How will the clearing house decide cases such as those? In the case of Liv Dunne, I am certain that the national companies were paying her what they thought was a fair price to get the attention that she was going to send to their companies. I do understand trying to reign in supposed "NIL" payments that are meant to be bag man payments to athletes. However, it is unconscionable to me for the schools to limit the ability of anyone to make money on things they had before being in the NCAA, and not directly related to their athletic participation at the school. Can you imagine what a hip hop star being a starting player at Miami would do for their attendance and ratings? Then think, why would would a person who could be making 100s of thousands in legitimate royalties and endorsements play if some accountant at Deloitte arbitrarily says that he shouldn't be allowed to make more than $70k per year?

The big problem in my opinion is that the schools are still trying to mask the actual situation. They have a relationship much more akin to business and labor than amateur athletics. Even if the athletes are labeled as contract labor, a collective bargaining agreement would be a much better way to handle all of the issues, in my opinion. With the way college football and men's basketball have become pure businesses, I think it is amazing that they can maintain their tax-exempt status.

This is a good post.

IIRC Liv Dunne was/is a model and social media "influencer" who happened to be a gymnast at LSU. Being a SI swimsuit model is a huge deal. She has 10 million followers on social media. I am surprised she did not file an appeal to the House decision as she could have made millions during those years where NIL was against the NCAA rules.

I think the idea of a college athlete joining a hip hop star in a video would be a very interesting test of the rules.

But, in both cases the money is coming from a legitimate business venture and is coming from the profits derived from that participation. I think these legit business cases are the ones getting approved by NILGo. But, The Tech Way isn't going to get approval to pay an athlete $1M to appear in social media ads for GT sports.

 

[orientalnc]

SMU was 49-9-1 from 1980 to 1984, which was the best record in Division I-A over those years. The NCAA started openly investigating SMU during this time and their recruiting took a huge hit. At the same time five other SWC schools were on some form of probation. I agree that SMU was the smallest school in the SWC conference an was cheating its way up the ladder. But they joined the cheating way earlier than 1985.

 

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I suggest reading some history of SMU football. They were a national power prior to getting "hammered" by the NCAA. While not a charter member of the Southwest Conference, they joined in 1918 and were still a member when they got the "death penalty" for repeated football recruiting violations. They were definitely one of the insiders of college football. A current analogy would be if FSU or Miami got the death penalty now. While not the best team in the country, SMU was winning 9-10 games almost every year.

SMU was like GT at that point. A mid level program being left behind by former peers who were cheating big time. That’s like saying GT was a national power because we had 3 previous Natties decades before the 1980’s. And SMU was defiant to the NCAA the same way Paul Johnson was because they had the nerve to point out the hypocrisy by the NCAA. Texas was down the road buying players and the NCAA never asked a question.

That’s always been my main issue. The blatant hypocrisy. And is why I don’t understand GT fans who are against NIL and the portal. GT is literally surrounded in all directions by schools who have been using NIL for decades while winning and GT hasn’t and are barely .500 if you take away the yearly cupcakes. We went from a national power to a nobody because we didn’t cheat. And then when Paul Johnson had the nerve to win and beat UGA suddenly we are put on probation over clothing while the players at Bama. UGA, Auburn, Clemson, and FSU were driving new cars. I freaking hope SMU buys every 5 star in the south in the coming years.

 

[RonJohn]

This is a good post.

IIRC Liv Dunne was/is a model and social media "influencer" who happened to be a gymnast at LSU. Being a SI swimsuit model is a huge deal. She has 10 million followers on social media. I am surprised she did not file an appeal to the House decision as she could have made millions during those years where NIL was against the NCAA rules.

I think the idea of a college athlete joining a hip hop star in a video would be a very interesting test of the rules.

But, in both cases the money is coming from a legitimate business venture and is coming from the profits derived from that participation. I think these legit business cases are the ones getting approved by NILGo. But, The Tech Way isn't going to get approval to pay an athlete $1M to appear in social media ads for GT sports.

Getting royalties from a hip hop song would be a legitimate business venture. Liv Dunne's "influencer" revenue was all NIL. Legitimate NIL, but it was for her Name, Image, and Likeness. I believe under the settlement; her American Eagle contract would have to go through the clearing house. (If she was still in school) As I understand it, the clearing house could just say that $500k was too much, and that the maximum she could make would be $50k. How can Deloitte make a more accurate decision about what her Instagram posts are worth to American Eagle than American Eagle can?

I do agree that it is easy for the clearing house to say that an NIL collective paying a player $1m to sign 50 autographs at a fan day is not a legitimate business purpose. However, I think it will have the same issues that the NCAA has had for a very long time. Rules are put in place that cripple legitimate activities, and still allow rules to be broken. In the past, the NCAA has punished schools for giving a player and his family (wife and kids) a place to stay for a few weeks after their apartment burns down. Ruled that a player can't work or take donations to be able to take care of his pre-teen brother who is basically orphaned (maybe drug orphaned is a better term). (They did allow that after appeals) During those same times, the NCAA did nothing about a father, and an agent, requesting bags of money from Miss State, and then accepting bags of money from Auburn. The clearing house will be better equipped to prevent the overpayment of players, but I think it will still have the issue of stopping legitimate activities and stifling legitimate NIL values. That stifling will be more concentrated on the non-revenue contributing athletes. (backup place-kickers and gymnasts for instance)

 

[RonJohn]

IIRC Liv Dunne was/is a model and social media "influencer" who happened to be a gymnast at LSU. Being a SI swimsuit model is a huge deal. She has 10 million followers on social media. I am surprised she did not file an appeal to the House decision as she could have made millions during those years where NIL was against the NCAA rules.

BTW, I think she did file an appeal to the settlement. If I remember correctly, her appeal was that the calculation for past payments from the settlement would highly undervalue the potential income she could have made before NIL was allowed.

 

[cpf2001]

The WNBA has the "is this sponsorship legit" problem as well since their salary cap is quite low. The very-recognizable players make far more from sponsorships than anything else. So some people have caught on to the "we can pay more if we get it to be a sponsorship" approach to roster-building and so far the league doesn't seem to be cracking down particularly hard - https://www.si.com/wnba/las-vegas-aces-players-unique-100k-sponsorships-investigation

According to a report from the Las Vegas Review-Journal's Callie Fin on Monday, the Las Vegas Convention and Visitors Authority is sponsoring Aces players for the second straight season, offering each player on the roster $100,000 apiece. The LVCVA offered the team the sponsorship last season for the first time, which the WNBA quickly decided to investigate.


LVCVA president Steve Hill said they have not heard from the league on the status of the investigation, according to the report, which led the LVCVA to proceed with another round of the sponsorships.

Whether or not any sort of cap works in CFB similarly depends on just how ruthless the enforcement body is willing to be. In a world with 100+ FBS teams, I can't see them being too strict, since the Ole Miss's of the world are gonna be more worried about falling back into the crowd if enforcement gets stronger than they are worried about Alabama or Georgia maintaining their lead.

 

[roadkill]

Getting royalties from a hip hop song would be a legitimate business venture. Liv Dunne's "influencer" revenue was all NIL. Legitimate NIL, but it was for her Name, Image, and Likeness. I believe under the settlement; her American Eagle contract would have to go through the clearing house. (If she was still in school) As I understand it, the clearing house could just say that $500k was too much, and that the maximum she could make would be $50k. How can Deloitte make a more accurate decision about what her Instagram posts are worth to American Eagle than American Eagle can?

I do agree that it is easy for the clearing house to say that an NIL collective paying a player $1m to sign 50 autographs at a fan day is not a legitimate business purpose. However, I think it will have the same issues that the NCAA has had for a very long time. Rules are put in place that cripple legitimate activities, and still allow rules to be broken. In the past, the NCAA has punished schools for giving a player and his family (wife and kids) a place to stay for a few weeks after their apartment burns down. Ruled that a player can't work or take donations to be able to take care of his pre-teen brother who is basically orphaned (maybe drug orphaned is a better term). (They did allow that after appeals) During those same times, the NCAA did nothing about a father, and an agent, requesting bags of money from Miss State, and then accepting bags of money from Auburn. The clearing house will be better equipped to prevent the overpayment of players, but I think it will still have the issue of stopping legitimate activities and stifling legitimate NIL values. That stifling will be more concentrated on the non-revenue contributing athletes. (backup place-kickers and gymnasts for instance)

I may be wrong, but I think that NCAA impermissible benefit enforcement has been slapped down so hard in court recently that going forward, they will be gun-shy about enforcing the types of “violations” in the examples you cited. Despite these benefits technically being outside of NIL compensation.

Edit to add: For a significant subset of athletes, revenue share compensation from their school will cover quite a bit of unexpected expenses anyway, making such scenarios less likely.

 

[orientalnc]

This case could be headed back to the courthouse.

49ers lineman Drew Moss announces relationship with Mya Lesnar, daughter of WWE wrestler Brock

Mya Lesnar and Drew Moss are sports' latest power couple.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[slugboy]

This case could be headed back to the courthouse.

49ers lineman Drew Moss announces relationship with Mya Lesnar, daughter of WWE wrestler Brock

Mya Lesnar and Drew Moss are sports' latest power couple.

sports.yahoo.com

Did you Link the right article?

 

[orientalnc]

Did you Link the right article?

No.
College sports leaders, House settlement attorneys in talks over whether to permit booster collective deals - Yahoo Sports https://share.google/OTjFeDL8MsTM73ph8

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Did you Link the right article?

All sports are related in the cosmic scheme

 

[Northeast Stinger]

No.
College sports leaders, House settlement attorneys in talks over whether to permit booster collective deals - Yahoo Sports https://share.google/OTjFeDL8MsTM73ph8

Interesting that Sankey, who usually is way out front in advocating for any change that helps the SEC, is playing his cards close to the vest on this one. Wise, considering lawyers are at work, but it suggest things are in a tenuous state.

 

[orientalnc]

Interesting that Sankey, who usually is way out front in advocating for any change that helps the SEC, is playing his cards close to the vest on this one. Wise, considering lawyers are at work, but it suggest things are in a tenuous state.

If these appeals kill the NIL rules I wonder if colleges might simply ditch sports teams completely. The settlement was supposed to end the chaos.

 

[RonJohn]

If these appeals kill the NIL rules I wonder if colleges might simply ditch sports teams completely. The settlement was supposed to end the chaos.

Did anyone actually believe that the settlement was a long term solution? I think it was only intended to be a stopgap measure until things really shake up around 2030. On top of that, Tennessee and Missouri state legislatures seem to be passing laws to make it illegal to have any kind of NIL rules in those states, so some schools and their state legislatures are trying to kill the NIL rules.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

If these appeals kill the NIL rules I wonder if colleges might simply ditch sports teams completely. The settlement was supposed to end the chaos.

I’m old school so I still remember the conversations we had with the president every Monday in which the sometimes spoken, but always understood, question was, “How does this program fit with our educational mission?”

Not sure which institutions still talk this way but it will become relevant if sports are reduced to nothing more than a sports gambling operation.

 

[orientalnc]

Much of this is already known to Swarm regulars. It's still an interesting read.

The fight to stamp out pay-for-play in college sports: ‘The lawsuits will start flying’

Schools are ready to embrace "normal" NIL: no pay-for-play deals. Even after the House settlement, challenges await.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Tommy_Taylor_1972]

Much of this is already known to Swarm regulars. It's still an interesting read.

The fight to stamp out pay-for-play in college sports: ‘The lawsuits will start flying’

Schools are ready to embrace "normal" NIL: no pay-for-play deals. Even after the House settlement, challenges await.

www.nytimes.com

To quote the article
"According to Opendorse, collectives accounted for nearly 82 percent of an estimated $1.675 billion college NIL market in 2024-25 — an enormous pot that athletes will no longer receive if collectives’ deals are invalidated. Revenue-sharing may replace those dollars for some athletes, but certainly not all, including few women’s athletes. Most schools are allocating as much as 90 percent of their $20.5 million to football and men’s basketball. “There are only a small amount of athletes that have real market value to command real commercial dollars,” said a second collective head. “The vast majority are hurt by (the CSC) guidance. That will not play well in the court of law or the court of public opinion. Especially once these athletes start complaining about their deals being denied even though they were ‘promised’ that compensation.”"

I wonder if Nait's $1.5 mil NIL payment will pass the NIL Go sniff test. Maybe not even the $300K Tech offered. Lawsuit lawyers may be the only winners here.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Was it ever made public which teams were going after King and Philo in the off-season? How much money was offered? Etc.

 

[g0lftime]

I don't think there will ever be another death penalty. SMU was down forever. I do think a 2 or 3 year exclusion from the playoffs would be short of the death penalty but very detrimental. Think about a 3 year ban from the playoffs and how many players would transfer based on that penalty.

What is going to happen about the Michigan cheating scandal? So far, nothing.
Will they be forced to vacate the national championship? Too much money is involved. The NCAA has become useless with enforcement of its own rules. I have my doubts that much will actually change.