House vs. NCAA

[forensicbuzz]

You seem to be making a couple of different points there. I think the CBA would be with either the P4 or a super league, not with NCAA athletics as a whole. I am thinking the super league is becoming more and more possible.

How many student athletes are under 18 when they report to college? I'm certain there are some, but it is probably a very low number. What happens when high school kids have part time jobs? Their parents can control, manage, and even take away that money? Should high school kids be prevented from having part time jobs because it is possible for their parents to control that money? I don't understand what this point has to do with paying college students.

The first part is self-evident. I agree, it will probably have to be a smaller group or tiers. A D3 athlete is still a student-athlete. If their school enjoys a media contract, they "deserve" part of it. If their school gets paid by a bigger school to come play them, does the S-A get a cut of that money too? Interesting questions.

As for the underaged comment, I started thinking about S-A's and their ability to sign a contract or join a union. It was just a continuation of thought. A parent can take control of NIL $$ if their child is a minor. Okay, it wasn't a complete thought, but it was part of a thought.

 

[LT 1967]

Attached is Notre Dame Statement on House settlement. ND obviously trying to hold on to the Student/Athlete model.

 

[awbuzz]

Attached is Notre Dame Statement on House settlement. ND obviously trying to hold on to the Student/Athlete model.

“To save the great American institution of college sports, Congress must pass legislation that will preempt the current patchwork of state laws; establish that our athletes are not employees, but students seeking college degrees; and provide protection from further anti-trust Related lawsuits that will allow colleges to make and enforce rules that will protect our student-athletes and help ensure competitive equity among our teams.”

100% agree

NCAA flubbed up years ago and this is the fruit of this. They should have been working on the above years 20+ years ago.

 

[Pappa P]

Attached is Notre Dame Statement on House settlement. ND obviously trying to hold on to the Student/Athlete model.

I agree more with ND statement than that of Cabrera and Batt. There was at least some recognition by ND that this is undesirable. Cabrera and Batt didn’t express such a sentiment. Sure they stated they would not compromise our academic standing and support our student-athletes athletically, academically and in their preparation for careers after graduation. But in the end they just asked us to pony up more $$.

It would seem the NCAA and P-5 conferences are rushing into this. Have they discussed this with ALL student-athletes? How about season ticket holders and supporters - did they ask us? I doubt it.

No wonder college athletics is becoming a money grab by coaches and FB/MBB players.

 

[RonJohn]

It would seem the NCAA and P-5 conferences are rushing into this.

I think they have been actively avoiding it for decades. P5 football IS professional sports, except for not paying the athletes. It has been for decades.

The NCAA could have addressed cutting players for athletic reasons as far back as the sixties. The NCAA could have addressed actual NIL opportunities as far back as the 80s. (actual as in Name-Image-Likeness, not the pay-for-play that has been occurring and called NIL) Instead, the NCAA waited until laws made them accept NIL, and it has been corrupted into pay-for-play. The NCAA and P4(5) have not rushed into direct payments to players, they have waited until a lawsuit forced them into it.

The NCAA could have attempted to maintain amateur athletics, but they didn't. They allowed the athletics to become professionalized. The NCAA could have guided a way to incorporate some professionalism into sports, but they didn't. They allowed the sports to become professional, but restricted the abilities of the athletes to even work a part time job to pay for movie tickets. They told a kicker at UCF that he couldn't run a YouTube channel if he wanted to play college sports. The NCAA rules had to be waived in order for a Clemson player to become legal guardian of his little brother after their mother was in drug rehab. The NCAA allowed the sport to become professional in all but name, but tried to prevent a 19 year old from keeping his 11 year old brother out of foster care. I am not happy about where we are, but I don't blame it on what is currently happening. I blame it on what the schools and NCAA have done and avoided doing for the last 30-60 years.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I wouldn’t trade diplomas, would you?
Didn’t think so.

My diploma says Emory.

 

[forensicbuzz]

My diploma says Emory.

Does that change the answer?

 

[orientalnc]

My diploma says Emory.

I have two, neither from Ga Tech. Unless you count my sons. My wife has App State and Emory. Those degrees don't force an allegiance to the athletics. I grew up a GT fan from my dad.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Does that change the answer?

Oh, I wouldn’t change my diploma.

And I would also accept a Tech diploma.

I was just pointing out that WPI is a very good school and shouldn’t be ridiculed.

 

[GTpdm]

Oh, I wouldn’t change my diploma.

And I would also accept a Tech diploma.

I was just pointing out that WPI is a very good school and shouldn’t be ridiculed.

Counterpoint to that. My wife (BS and MS from GT at the time) worked in New England for a high-rep optical design company (Karl Storz). She had a co-worker with an MS in mechanical engineering from WPI who was working on a design. At one point, the co-worker walked into the lab, holding a piece of fiber-optic tubing at arm’s length above their head, so it wouldn’t drag on the floor and asked, “does this look like like a one-meter length of tubing?”

(No, they were not a Little Person…except maybe in their intellectual capacity.)

 

[dressedcheeseside]

This honestly would help us tho cause if they don’t have to focus on academics it can help us shed the image of tough academics amongst the higher recruits.

If they’re not students, they are not GT. I would be out.

 

[bke1984]

That data already exists. Because of the way the CFP has been run, most fans (not you, specifically, but generally) now have two teams they pull for. Why? Because by the end of September, if your primary team has 2+ losses, they are out of the hunt. So rather than rake leaves and sit out the rest of the seasons, fans pull for Team B.

I already have two teams to pull for. Tech and whoever is playing georgia. I guess there’s always that…I would probably continue to watch as long as they exist so I can keep watching them lose.

 

[Ramblnwrek]

I originally thought a second minor league NFL was going to pop up. I did not realize that College was just that. We have monetized our fan bases and those who 'have' or 'have more' will outperform those who don't. I don't think GT is on the competitive side of that equation, nor do I think we want to be when you look at what it takes to achieve 'competition at the championship level.'

For GT, this would mean an overhaul of Major sectors of the Institution: Complete Athlete-friendly degree tracks that are NOT named management. (Unpopular opinion) Admissions need to prefer those who are more likely to be ticket-buying/football-donating alumni, basically more good ol'boys and less international.

I do not know if GT wants or even should do something like that. It would change the very foundation of the institution. All for football? I do not forsee a future where GT stays an elite Engineering school and a top-tier football. Maybe if it were possible to go from public to private institution, but again 'foundation-altering changes.' The choice does not need to be made yet, but it IS coming and probably during J Batt and Cabrera's tenure.

 

[stinger78]

My diploma says Emory.

Don’t be saying that around here, you’ll get replies like, “Really? Try Preparation H. It will take the Emoroids out of you.”

 

[bigrabbit]

Oh, I wouldn’t change my diploma.

And I would also accept a Tech diploma.

I was just pointing out that WPI is a very good school and shouldn’t be ridiculed.

Wpi is fine, 5k students, minimal research, easier to get in, no SAT, no sports to fund. The salaries are regional bias, 50% higher average cost of living in Boston area vs Atlanta per nerd wallet. But we committed to our current model starting with Pettit, doubled down by Stelson, Crecine, etc. Nostalgia about our smaller UG school centric past won’t take us back there. If your kid wants to go to GT, the trick will be getting in, completely different from 70s/80s. Yes their professor will more likely be doing research at the level of MIT, Cal Tech and Stanford.

We’re solid on all that, we’re not solid on sports funding. My read on the Batt Cabrera letter is “we are ready to push forward, no limits from us, time for you to pony up if you want this”.

We have a lousy balance sheet and need to find $20m extra annual free cash flow now, correct?

I keep coming back to our middle aged whales - how many are there who care about sports? Besides them, will the mythical GT millionaire next door suddenly become generous by carrying significantly higher season ticket prices and student fees to close the gap? I doubt my boomer colleagues can/will carry it. My posts supporting some level of pay for pay seem to draw a fellow boomer coming back with stories of how athletes don’t deserve it and “these kids have it easy, I walked 10 miles in snow to get to class and avoid going to Nam”. Fair enough, everyone decides how they want to use their money.

A 40 year old has more big exits to look forward to vs sustainable estate planning. Are the younger alums into football? Or soccer. Or that new bioscience building. Would students (more accurately, their parents) pay more to keep game day parties going? Is there a corporate sponsor trick? Will season ticket sales drop at current prices as an anti pay for play protest? That would be a bad sign. Stay tuned. Go Jackets.

 

[Vespidae]

Besides them, will the mythical GT millionaire next door suddenly become generous by carrying significantly higher season ticket prices and student fees to close the gap?

As the sport becomes more "professional", why should they? How many alumni (of any school) donate money to their favorite NFL team? Or MLB baseball? Or NBA basketball? None. The average ticket price to the Falcons is $112/game or about $1000 a year. How much more do you give?

It's one thing to donate under the rationale that it's an amateur sport that depends on generous donors to fund. It's another to call it professional and ask for donations. Especially when no one knows if athletes are going to even be required to attend classes.

Personally, I am at the point of having Tech pursue the Green Bay model. Capitalize the GTAA and sell shares to the public. Monetize special events to the owners. Real events. And include concerts and promotions at BDS.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

[bigrabbit]

As the sport becomes more "professional", why should they? How many alumni (of any school) donate money to their favorite NFL team? Or MLB baseball? Or NBA basketball? None. The average ticket price to the Falcons is $112/game or about $1000 a year. How much more do you give?

It's one thing to donate under the rationale that it's an amateur sport that depends on generous donors to fund. It's another to call it professional and ask for donations. Especially when no one knows if athletes are going to even be required to attend classes.

Personally, I am at the point of having Tech pursue the Green Bay model. Capitalize the GTAA and sell shares to the public. Monetize special events to the owners. Real events. And include concerts and promotions at BDS.

There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Interesting idea, love the Packers, the state team (not us) would probably be oversubscribed to such a public offering, half/quarter millionaires would jump at it plus double season tix price, no problem. Concerts, events can help a little. I sat in press box for Champagne Jam, awesome day.

We logically analyze ROI, gnad lickers make emotional decisions. Your logic confirms my sense about us pushing back, you’re probably right. If it goes that way, we get a letter from Batt/Cabrera down the road, maybe pretty soon, explaining how we will pursue and attain excellence at a different level more compatible with our values and academic mission (and pocketbook). Students can still pregame, rock on.

Or imo you younger alums pony up. Or a creative corporate deal (is that possible)? Clock has to be ticking.
I would strongly advise against believing in some magic pot of money at the university level. There can be some wiggle room, but I watched huge fights over 5 figure pots (hell 3 figures). The standard academia joke: they fight so hard because there is so little to fight for. This is probably not an existential threat to senior admin, not like the ethical scandals and police shooting/killing a student.

Things change - the VPI-VMI game used to be huge, their big thanksgiving game in Roanoke. Last time I went in 1966 Vpi won 70-12. Finally ended in 1984 when VPI decided to try not sucking. VMI still plays football..Hey we’re playing VMI this year! Go Jackets.

 

[Oakland]

So...does this open the door for players who went to the NFL with college eligibility remaining, a chance to go back and play college football?

 

[LT 1967]

For those who are interested in more detail concerning the House settlement, the attached Forbes article has a list of 10 issues that reveal more information concerning things like; exactly where will the money come from, private equity involvement, NIL, and Title IX. There are also some comments on price fixing, lawyer fees, scholarship limits, and escalator clauses.

Someone asked if the 21 to 22 million is a cap? The phrase used in the article is "up to 21-22 million". NIL will be in addition to the 22 million.

 

[yellajacket20]

So...does this open the door for players who went to the NFL with college eligibility remaining, a chance to go back and play college football?

My question would be...if they sign a 4 year deal, what happens if they leave early?