Hitting home how aggressive Woody's D must be right now

[TheTechGuy]

So yeah, VT=252. Small, but STILL on average 7 pounds bigger at every single position than GT.

But, at the risk of beating a dead horse, I"M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING IT"S A BAD THING. Just a notable thing.

Gotcha. Also, per the USF depth chart here, their starting LBs and DLs average 247; one of their listed starting LBs weighs 199.

They run a nickel defense, so I didn't know who to count as the 7th player.

 

[tech_wreck47]

So yeah, VT=252. Small, but STILL on average 7 pounds bigger at every single position than GT.

But, at the risk of beating a dead horse, I"M NOT NECESSARILY SAYING IT"S A BAD THING. Just a notable thing.

But they really aren’t about 7 pounds bigger per position. You’d need to compare position by position for that because 1 position can change those numbers drastically, and remember the have 4 down linemen so they should average bigger. I’m guessing at their depth chart based on last year. BTW their big DT is no longer on the team. When you brake the numbers down we are bigger at OLB, Stinger (WHIP for them), MLB, DE, and about the same at NT.

 

[ilovetheoption]

Gotcha. Also, per the USF depth chart here, their starting LBs and DLs average 247; one of their listed starting LBs weighs 199.

They run a nickel defense, so I didn't know who to count as the 7th player.

Unfortunately I deleted my spreadsheet, so I have no idea what I did there I used a variety of sources (I only went with ourlads as a last resort, as I find them pretty unreliable, generally). My general rule was if a team runs a nickle, just divide by 6.

 

[tech_wreck47]

1) If you're assuming that GT is mysteriously bigger than their roster, you'd have to make the same assumption for every other team as well. Otherwise you're not playing fair. Thus, comparing roster weights for all teams (including GT) is a fair comp.
2) Again, you're missing the point, which is the 4-3 vs the 3-4. Most teams have ~600 lbs of DT. Gt has ~300. So, while GT's DT is average sized, GT's DT POSITION is very undersized. That's why 3-4 teams are generally bigger at other positions. GT is not, though. They're built like a 4-3 team, only because they're only playing one DT, theyr'e like a 3-3 team.
3) Becaause of point 2, it's not that you're only undersized at one or two positions, is that you're undersized as front 7, collectively.

I named 1 player as not being the right weight, so that’s not really fair to act as if I’m talking about more than that. And I do get what you are saying by not having an extra DT, but at the same time we are also not playing 2 gap but we are shooting gaps which imo balances out what you are talking about. I just don’t see the size as an issue except stinger and DE (Anour) but that might not even be an issue.

 

[ilovetheoption]

But they really aren’t about 7 pounds bigger per position. You’d need to compare position by position for that because 1 position can change those numbers drastically, and remember the have 4 down linemen so they should average bigger. I’m guessing at their depth chart based on last year. BTW their big DT is no longer on the team. When you brake the numbers down we are bigger at OLB, Stinger (WHIP for them), MLB, DE, and about the same at NT.

NO. That's the point you're missing. Most 3-4 teams have bigger players at other positions, to make up for the fact that they have fewer linemen. It's why most teams are about the same size, whether they run 4-3's or 3-4's. Most 3-4 teams have bigger LB's because they have traded a DT for an LB. They also tend to have bigger DE's.

GT has neither. Their DE's average 257. That's the size of 4-3 ends. Their LB's average 225. That's the size of 4-3 LB's. So they've gotten smaller there, and not gotten bigger anywhere else, like most 3-4 teams do. Which is why they're really small.

 

[ilovetheoption]

I named 1 player as not being the right weight, so that’s not really fair to act as if I’m talking about more than that. And I do get what you are saying by not having an extra DT, but at the same time we are also not playing 2 gap but we are shooting gaps which imo balances out what you are talking about. I just don’t see the size as an issue except stinger and DE (Anour) but that might not even be an issue.

It might not be an issue. I just know that OL's have to push ~1840 lbs on running plays against most teams, and against GT they have to push ~1715, which is about 25lbs less per offensive lineman.

And, to reiterate, I VASTLY prefer shooting gaps for a team like GT.

GT was unable to recruit big nasties to plug up gaps, so it's wise to stop asking the guys you CAN recruit to plug up gaps.

Playing to your strengths is a hallmark of good coaching, and I think Woody's a good coach.

What I'm saying here is akin to a basketball fan saying "man, we don't have any starters over 6'6. We're going to have to press the hell out of the other team, and make a bunch of 3's". It's not necessarily a bad thing, especially if your last coach was trying to have your team post up all the time, but the facts are that you have a short team, even if your point guard has pretty good size. OVERALL you're a small team.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Thinking about the presumptive starters on Defense, you're really looking at the personnel for a 2-4-5, and even THEN it's undersized.

Surge is 300, but Branch is only 280.

ASA is OLB sized, and Curry is only 217, which is light for a linebacker, too. Campbell is 208.

The ONLY way this defense can work, to my mind, is if guys are just FLYING around playing with their hair on fire.

I think Glanton will get significant reps at DE also. That beefs things up a good bit.

217 doesn’t worry me at LB so long as the wheels are good. BJS will play a lot too and 234 is plenty stout.

Campbell at 208 isn’t bad at safety and the starter ahead of him is 215.

But yes we are built much more like Va Polytech D than Clemson’s D.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Also get all aboard the Juanyeh hype train a 6’3 215lb’s FS. Woody & Company value speed & from what I recall Askew, Juanyeh, & Swilling were ball hawkers.

Should make for a really fast and fun defense.

The DBs got me drooling *pause*. Major upgrade, imo, with Rivers being the glue to guide these young bucks along.

If Curry can stay healthy, I hope BJS is moved to Sam/Stinger/Jack. Early reports is he is a bit hesitant, might as well make him a pass rusher

 

[Ibeeballin]

ASA is the only player truly undersized. Also with the exception of Malik the 2 Deep Safeties are fairly large.

I’m a bit surprised that Jaylen & Swilling beat out Kerr & Simmons is not on the 2 Deep.

Freshman & Sophmores all over the place. The talent upgrades of the last two classes is beginning to show.

Simmons is supposedly hurt so that explains him, but i honestly don’t believe his playing style fits Woody scheme anyway.

It also sucks not seeing AJ Gray at that Stinger spot

 

[ATL1]

The DBs got me drooling *pause*. Major upgrade, imo, with Rivers being the glue to guide these young bucks along.

If Curry can stay healthy, I hope BJS is moved to Sam/Stinger/Jack. Early reports is he is a bit hesitant, might as well make him a pass rusher

From what I understand BJS & Quez will play a lot so he’ll get his reps.

 

[Frenchise]

This is effectively a dime package. If we're playing a non-spread team, i think we switch to a more traditional 3-4 with bigger lineman. We can always sub-in a DL if they're just running it down our throats. Most OL aren't that athletic, so i like this as our base package.

 

[tech_wreck47]

The DBs got me drooling *pause*. Major upgrade, imo, with Rivers being the glue to guide these young bucks along.

If Curry can stay healthy, I hope BJS is moved to Sam/Stinger/Jack. Early reports is he is a bit hesitant, might as well make him a pass rusher

It’s been said he’s stiff as well (BJS)

 

[IEEEWreck]

It might not be an issue. I just know that OL's have to push ~1840 lbs on running plays against most teams, and against GT they have to push ~1715, which is about 25lbs less per offensive lineman.

And, to reiterate, I VASTLY prefer shooting gaps for a team like GT.

GT was unable to recruit big nasties to plug up gaps, so it's wise to stop asking the guys you CAN recruit to plug up gaps.

Playing to your strengths is a hallmark of good coaching, and I think Woody's a good coach.

What I'm saying here is akin to a basketball fan saying "man, we don't have any starters over 6'6. We're going to have to press the hell out of the other team, and make a bunch of 3's". It's not necessarily a bad thing, especially if your last coach was trying to have your team post up all the time, but the facts are that you have a short team, even if your point guard has pretty good size. OVERALL you're a small team.

You have a point, and I don't know much about how much a D should weigh, but I hear tell that m v squared.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

When you can recruit what you want you get athletes, strength, size, and speed (Clemson, Ala, UGA). When you play with what you got you put the best player on the field and not be so concerned about his size. Coaching 101.

Exactly. Also, the size of the man has no correlation to the size of his heart or the quality of his play. There are plenty examples of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" out there. Conversly, there are plenty examples of smaller dudes ballin' out. Julian Burnett and PJ Davis come right to mind. Sneezy wasn't huge in college, either.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

It’s been said he’s stiff as well (BJS)

tmi.

 

[Longestday]

I am not a defense guru. I always wondered why we tried to hold ground versus controlled penetration. I thought this was just my lack of knowledge and that this idea would be destroyed by good offenses. I can't wait to see if I can find a layman's view on this new defense and why it works (if it does).

Woody's defense is supposed to be like CPJ's offense. It does not try to do what the others do and it does not try and use better bigger people to beat their people. The new scheme uses speed versus brute force and values controlled penetration versus a wall.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Exactly. Also, the size of the man has no correlation to the size of his heart or the quality of his play. There are plenty examples of "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" out there. Conversly, there are plenty examples of smaller dudes ballin' out. Julian Burnett and PJ Davis come right to mind. Sneezy wasn't huge in college, either.

People forget we had a 3-4 DL in 2012 or 2013 that was comparable to Alabama size-wise with DEs Cross @ 300lb and Cummings at 290lb and NT TJ Barnes @ 345 and those years were brutal

 

[tmhunter52]

It is, but that's not who you're starting. That's kind of my point. Woody is putting a really small team out there, by choice. The front seven 2 deep averages 247. That's small. It's what he likes, so I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but that doesn't change the fact that what he likes is REALLY small.

I’m guessing that part of the DC’s responsibility is to gauge who is getting their jobs done in real time during the game and to rotate in others, if necessary.

 

[danny daniel]

I am not a defense guru. I always wondered why we tried to hold ground versus controlled penetration. I thought this was just my lack of knowledge and that this idea would be destroyed by good offenses. I can't wait to see if I can find a layman's view on this new defense and why it works (if it does).

Woody's defense is supposed to be like CPJ's offense. It does not try to do what the others do and it does not try and use better bigger people to beat their people. The new scheme uses speed versus brute force and values controlled penetration versus a wall.

What I really like about Woody's D is that it REQUIRES a lot of player rotation and you get the added benefit of better morale, less attrition, stronger D late in the game, more competition among players, and built in depth for future teams. Other benefits I hope are a better pass rush and a better fit for our personnel/recruiting.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

What I really like about Woody's D is that it REQUIRES a lot of player rotation and you get the added benefit of better morale, less attrition, stronger D late in the game, more competition among players, and built in depth for future teams. Other benefits I hope are a better pass rush and a better fit for our personnel/recruiting.

It may even result in less injuries cause guys are not gassed all the time.