Hire Fast, Fire Slow?

[4shotB]

IMO Ross, O'Leary, Gailey and Johnson were all above average college coaches (some more than others). If they weren't GT wouldn't have won nearly as much as it has over the last 4 decades. Without an above avg coach GT is a lower third (maybe lower quarter) P5 program in pretty much all other aspects. It takes a really good coach and staff to make GT an above .500 program.

The conundrum is that the game has shifted in a lot of ways such that a proven, good coach wouldn't want this job. As a student in the late 70's/early 80's the glory days weren't that far in the past such that we retained a sliver of hope that they would come back. In today's world, no one below 45 - 50 even remembers Gt as a steady and consistent force. Sure, we have had flashes here and there.

Secondly, it used to be a coach who stayed and showed steady performance and annual bowl trips could flourish at a place like GT. But with the advent of the playoffs , if you aren't in the hunt for the playoffs you are considered a meh program. Places like Florida and Michigan and Auburn were once considered prominent and elite. But now there are the 5-7 power teams and then everyone else is lumped into a pile of also rans. Who cares if you won the Rose Bowl if it isn't a playoff game. Will we attract coaches in the future? Of course, there are always guys who think they are up to the task plus it is a chance to make the kind of money that most will have to work a lifetime to make. But, in an odd sort of way, I would be hesitant about anyone who is foolish enough to take this job. i would wonder if he had done due diligence in his research or was just signing up for a contract that guarantees success no matter what happens 3-5 years down the road.

 

[bobongo]

But, in an odd sort of way, I would be hesitant about anyone who is foolish enough to take this job. i would wonder if he had done due diligence in his research or was just signing up for a contract that guarantees success no matter what happens 3-5 years down the road.

Would you be as hesitant about him if he were a promising young coach in the FCS ranks? I would think that such a coach would see this as a great opportunity to advance and make his mark. As I've said before, we don't need a big name. All we need is a good coach. We need someone who sees this job as an opportunity.

 

[GT33]

The two most important qualities in a head coach are leadership and organizational skills, IMO. Get someone with those qualities and everything else will fall into place.

Collins has little in the way of organizational skills, or he would not have assembled such a poor staff and stuck with it until induced to change it. He thought he had leadership skills, but even he must be doubting that by now.

I’d add judgment along with leadership & organizational skill.

 

[Vespidae]

The conundrum is that the game has shifted in a lot of ways such that a proven, good coach wouldn't want this job. As a student in the late 70's/early 80's the glory days weren't that far in the past such that we retained a sliver of hope that they would come back. In today's world, no one below 45 - 50 even remembers Gt as a steady and consistent force. Sure, we have had flashes here and there.

Secondly, it used to be a coach who stayed and showed steady performance and annual bowl trips could flourish at a place like GT. But with the advent of the playoffs , if you aren't in the hunt for the playoffs you are considered a meh program. Places like Florida and Michigan and Auburn were once considered prominent and elite. But now there are the 5-7 power teams and then everyone else is lumped into a pile of also rans. Who cares if you won the Rose Bowl if it isn't a playoff game. Will we attract coaches in the future? Of course, there are always guys who think they are up to the task plus it is a chance to make the kind of money that most will have to work a lifetime to make. But, in an odd sort of way, I would be hesitant about anyone who is foolish enough to take this job. i would wonder if he had done due diligence in his research or was just signing up for a contract that guarantees success no matter what happens 3-5 years down the road.

This reminds me of a quote from Groucho Marx ... “I won’t belong to any organization that would have me as a member.”

 

[RonJohn]

Please read my comment above. I am referring to the AA. It SHOULD be run like a business. It IS a business.

If speaking about the AA, it would be possible for the AD to leave and the bureaucracy to continue running. The AA would have to keep checks on coaches and employees, but it could continue to host events, make payroll, sell tickets, keep up the facilities, etc. while a new AD is being found. That would be very similar to a for profit business as you are indicating.

However, my post, and unless I misunderstand the OP, the purpose of this thread is with regard to a long search for a HC. I listed reasons that I think a search for a HC that extended a long time after the current/previous coach leaves would be disastrous for a football program. That isn't the same as a business.

Also, as I suggested in my previous post, it would be possible to have a year long search for a new coach and still replace the outgoing coach very soon after he leaves. That search would just have to be more quiet and less public than the usual search. I hope that GT is already engaging in quiet off the record discussions for HC, and if the big boosters really want to get rid of TStan then for AD also. Off the record discussions wouldn't mean that either of them would have to go, but if they do go, the GTAA would be in a much better situation if those searches and discussions are already taking place.

 

[Heisman's Ghost]

In the corporate world, there are two commonly held bits of wisdom when it comes to employees:

1. Hire slow. Fire fast.
2. When is the best time to fire someone? The first time you think of it.

Bad hiring decisions are expensive, and the sooner you admit a mistake, the less it costs you in the long run.

So, it strikes me as odd that in the world of college sports, when a coach is fired or resigns, the university seems to make every effort to announce the new coach ASAP. Common arguments for this approach are:

• It's a small world; all these guys know one another.
• AD's keep a short list in their top drawer.
• Recruiting is affected by the vacancy.
• Yada, yada, whatever.

I'm not impressed with our success at hiring great coaches. In the past 40 years, Bobby Cremins stands out in my mind. (You can name your favorite, if you want to...my meter started running in the Pepper Rogers era. This isn't that thread.)

This is about whether we should be taking more time and getting it right next time. Maybe that will have a bigger impact on recruiting than getting it done quick. Just sayin'.

I don't know the correct answer, if there is one. I can relate that when Florida AD Jeremy Foley chose to fire Ron Zook who had the misfortune of following Steve Spurrier, he did it in the latter stages of Zook's third season despite the fact that Coach Zook had recruited well (his players were the foundation of Urban's first national championship team in Gainesville) and had managed to beat UGA two of the three years he coached against them. Apparently, various player escapades and losing to the likes of Ole Miss and Mississippi State were too much to swallow. At the time Foley said that it had been HIS experience that it worked out better in the long run when he knew he had to get rid of a coach just to go ahead and do it right away. He similarly followed that script with a baseball coach and some other minor sport coach. Worked out well for a while because the Gators got Urban Meyer and two national championships.

 

[Randy Carson]

Interesting arguments on both sides...

 

[4shotB]

Would you be as hesitant about him if he were a promising young coach in the FCS ranks? I would think that such a coach would see this as a great opportunity to advance and make his mark. As I've said before, we don't need a big name. All we need is a good coach. We need someone who sees this job as an opportunity.

I have thought about your question a bit before responding. While i would question the motives and intelligence of any one who would take this job, i reflected back on to myself in my younger days. Twice I took on tasks or jobs that people cautioned me not to take. I refused to listen because the advantages of being a young man is that you are full of p*** and vinegar. Everybody thinks they are superman at that age. That is why I tend to give Coach Collins a bit of empathy - I am convinced that he thought he was THE GUY. Didn't we all when we were his age? (this question will only make sense to those of us in our 'autumn" or 'winter" seasons in life).

PS...I am glad I accepted the challenges back then. Great learning experiences that helped me later on. And the fact that I accepted them gave me greater opportunities down the road. Playing it safe is for losers.

 

[Randy Carson]

Also, as I suggested in my previous post, it would be possible to have a year long search for a new coach and still replace the outgoing coach very soon after he leaves. That search would just have to be more quiet and less public than the usual search. I hope that GT is already engaging in quiet off the record discussions for HC, and if the big boosters really want to get rid of TStan then for AD also. Off the record discussions wouldn't mean that either of them would have to go, but if they do go, the GTAA would be in a much better situation if those searches and discussions are already taking place.

^This. As a former headhunter, SO this.

 

[SandySpringsJacket]

In the corporate world, there are two commonly held bits of wisdom when it comes to employees:

1. Hire slow. Fire fast.
2. When is the best time to fire someone? The first time you think of it.

Bad hiring decisions are expensive, and the sooner you admit a mistake, the less it costs you in the long run.

So, it strikes me as odd that in the world of college sports, when a coach is fired or resigns, the university seems to make every effort to announce the new coach ASAP. Common arguments for this approach are:

• It's a small world; all these guys know one another.
• AD's keep a short list in their top drawer.
• Recruiting is affected by the vacancy.
• Yada, yada, whatever.

I'm not impressed with our success at hiring great coaches. In the past 40 years, Bobby Cremins stands out in my mind. (You can name your favorite, if you want to...my meter started running in the Pepper Rogers era. This isn't that thread.)

This is about whether we should be taking more time and getting it right next time. Maybe that will have a bigger impact on recruiting than getting it done quick. Just sayin'.

Well said. My favorites were Cremins and Ross, and then OLeary. Of course, hindsight is 2020,

 

[sgreer]

After the disaster Baylor hired an interim coach and did a 1 year coaching search - got Rhule.

After Rhule they spent real money to get their current coach from LSU
. He won and they gave long term contract.

We are cheap

GT is cheap but everyone keeps hoping for the unicorn coach to come in and create a masterpiece with broken crayons

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

A “Good” AD has a list of five or six good candidates for any sport that comes open. That’s the reason some are hired quickly. I hope our AD burned his last list.

 

[iceeater1969]

^This. As a former headhunter, SO this.

Kind of sucks that the old coach is not helping.
I retired when we sold the company but
I was rehired hired on contract to recruit and help a sr vp stand up a new division. He is still a good friend and very glad he left the major gas company..

 

[bobongo]

I have thought about your question a bit before responding. While i would question the motives and intelligence of any one who would take this job, i reflected back on to myself in my younger days. Twice I took on tasks or jobs that people cautioned me not to take. I refused to listen because the advantages of being a young man is that you are full of p*** and vinegar. Everybody thinks they are superman at that age. That is why I tend to give Coach Collins a bit of empathy - I am convinced that he thought he was THE GUY. Didn't we all when we were his age? (this question will only make sense to those of us in our 'autumn" or 'winter" seasons in life).

PS...I am glad I accepted the challenges back then. Great learning experiences that helped me later on. And the fact that I accepted them gave me greater opportunities down the road. Playing it safe is for losers.

Fortuna audaces iuvat: Fortune favors the bold.

I wouldn't question the motives and I certainly wouldn't question the intelligence of an up-and-coming FCS coach who's offered a few million dollars a year to coach a P-5 team. Seems a no-brainer to me. TStan needs to be bold and dig deep. He needs to hire the person he thinks is best for the job, even if he's not a "name". He struck out with Geoff, but it doesn't preclude the possibility that he learned from his mistake and will knock it out of the park the next time around.

As for Geoff, I don't hold anything against him. He probably thought he could do this, but he just can't.

 

[sgreer]

Fortuna audaces iuvat: Fortune favors the bold.

I wouldn't question the motives and I certainly wouldn't question the intelligence of an up-and-coming FCS coach who's offered a few million dollars a year to coach a P-5 team. Seems a no-brainer to me. TStan needs to be bold and dig deep. He needs to hire the person he thinks is best for the job, even if he's not a "name". He struck out with Geoff, but it doesn't preclude the possibility that he learned from his mistake and will knock it out of the park the next time around.

As for Geoff, I don't hold anything against him. He probably thought he could do this, but he just can't.

I am surprised CGC has not been better- he worked for big time programs and head coaches and more importantly was at Tech and knew the challenges that he would face- I really thought he would have taken those learnings and been more successful than where we are. Still believe ultimately Tech does not invest enough to compete but still should have won more than 3 games per season.

 

[4shotB]

I am surprised CGC has not been better- he worked for big time programs and head coaches and more importantly was at Tech and knew the challenges that he would face- I really thought he would have taken those learnings and been more successful than where we are. Still believe ultimately Tech does not invest enough to compete but still should have won more than 3 games per season.

the two guys who proceeded him were grizzled, respected and savvy vets who managed to somehow squueze out 7 wins per year on average in a pretty bad situation. Say Collins had somehow managed to get 5-6 wins per year over the last 3 which doesn't seem unreasonable. But to think our fanbase would be any less disgruntled is missing the mark. The growing dissatisfaction is with the school and AA administration with most of us older fans. Collins is just the latest fall guy. i could be wrong.

 

[swampsting]

One difference between corporate world and sports:
You might turn your work force over every few years in the corporate world
You will turn over your work force (the players) every 4-5 years in college athletics

 

[boger2337]

I don't believe it's just pure, dumb luck. Of course, luck could be involved, and often is, but there's also the element of an AD getting down and doing his homework, and knowing what qualities are most important to fill the job. Any AD could hire someone with a proven track record in P-5 if he had the money, but we need someone who will be properly recognized by our AD as having the qualities needed to succeed in our particular situation if given the chance. We had better be thinking and looking outside the box. All I'm saying is that an AD worth his salt will get down to work and find us somebody whom we can afford and who will succeed here. And I have no doubt that such a coach is out there, somewhere. It's TStan's job to find him.

No. To succeed which means playoff appearances the only solution is more money. The era of money is among us. We either pay or fall way behind. 100k per player will soon be the minimum.

 

[RonJohn]

the two guys who proceeded him were grizzled, respected and savvy vets who managed to somehow squueze out 7 wins per year on average in a pretty bad situation.

You didn't exactly mention age, but I kind of infer age from "grizzled" vet. Some have made comments in other threads about CGC being a young coach. He was 47 when he came to GT. CCG was 48 when he came to GT. CPJ was 50 when he came to GT. From an age standpoint, they were all almost the same.

EDIT: I went back and looked at CGOL, he was 48 or 49 when promoted to interim HC.

 

[4shotB]

You didn't exactly mention age, but I kind of infer age from "grizzled" vet. Some have made comments in other threads about CGC being a young coach. He was 47 when he came to GT. CCG was 48 when he came to GT. CPJ was 50 when he came to GT. From an age standpoint, they were all almost the same.

EDIT: I went back and looked at CGOL, he was 48 or 49 when promoted to interim HC.

I was speaking more to the gravitas of Gailey and Johnson's resumes before GT more than to the actual age of Collins. Both had and have more 'clout" (imo) in the football world based on work experiences if you will when they first stepped on to the Flats.