HC Candidate/Rumors/Info Thread

[Techster]

Anyone that needs to be told this doesnt know a thing about football and is irrelevant lol the people that actually matter get it (recruits, HS coaches, players, etc)

Unfortunately, some of them won't get it either. Perception is reality for a lot of people.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

This needs to be broadcasted on every social media platform if we go with Chadwell. The cognitive dissonance of people that are equating this to CPJ's offense is annoying

That'll work about as well as selling that the CPJ offense was flexbone, not a triple option. He didn't even try to correct the perception after a few years.

Just do a Google search on Coastal Carolina, the perception us there and it will always be there.

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Anyone that needs to be told this doesnt know a thing about football and is irrelevant lol the people that actually matter get it (recruits, HS coaches, players, etc)

Those people you listed absolutely will equate it to the flexbone. Sorry to break it to you.

 

[lv20gt]

That'll work about as well as selling that the CPJ offense was flexbone, not a triple option. He didn't even try to correct the perception after a few years.

Just labeling it "triple option" wasn't what hurt Johnson the most. What hurt Johnson were some specific aspects that were easy to point to.

The first is lack of throwing success. Coastal doesn't have the same issue. If we normalize for 13 games (meaning 12 + bowl) McCall was on pace for 3k his r. fr year and ~3.4k last year and similar this year. That's not tremendous, but it's good enough to make it not nearly as easy to negative recruit along that line. For Johnson the highest we got was 1719 with Thomas in 14 games. This affected basically the entire offensive side recruiting because it was easy to point to that and use it against QBs, WRs, or OL who wanted to pass block.

The second is the blocking scheme which basically isn't an issue because of rule changes.

The third thing that would affect both WR and Abacks is relative lack of opportunities, although for different reasons. WR's just didn't get many catches. Thomas did, but after that our WRs were looking at catches in the 20s on the high end. Abacks were always hurt by the way we rotated and never really featured an A back. With coastal that's not really an issue. The past two years their top guy had 60+ catches and the secondary option was getting about what our first options were getting. This year they have 3 with 27+ receptions already in 10 games.


The last thing is that Johnson just wasn't a good recruiter in his own right. It wasn't the only thing, but it was an issue. Don't know enough about Chadwell to say, but I doubt he would be as bad.

 

[stinger 1957]

My thoughts on CBK and offense is CBK is an offensive line coach and those guys understand a whole lot about offense, they spend time working with their OCs. I expect CBK will well understand who and what he is hiring as OC, does that mean we can afford or that he can get exactly who he wants, I have no idea, but IMO an OC is not going to have any problem working for a guy like CBK.
For me a much greater concern than hiring CBK as GT HC is our money situation, we're broke, do not know of NIL money or money for hiring coaches, I do have to believe that our Pres and new AD are working on a remedy based on the commitment Cabrera made and the AD understanding something of our financial situation before he came on board. At least that is my hope, because if that is not fixed we're dead in the water.

 

[yeti92]

Here's an interesting question. If Thacker were to move on after this season - perhaps he's loyal to Geoff, hates GT, gets a better offer elsewhere, whatever - are people still as high on retaining Key?

 

[stech81]

Here's an interesting question. If Thacker were to move on after this season - perhaps he's loyal to Geoff, hates GT, gets a better offer elsewhere, whatever - are people still as high on retaining Key?

yes

 

[BainbridgeJacket]

Just labeling it "triple option" wasn't what hurt Johnson the most. What hurt Johnson were some specific aspects that were easy to point to.

The first is lack of throwing success. Coastal doesn't have the same issue. If we normalize for 13 games (meaning 12 + bowl) McCall was on pace for 3k his r. fr year and ~3.4k last year and similar this year. That's not tremendous, but it's good enough to make it not nearly as easy to negative recruit along that line. For Johnson the highest we got was 1719 with Thomas in 14 games. This affected basically the entire offensive side recruiting because it was easy to point to that and use it against QBs, WRs, or OL who wanted to pass block.

The second is the blocking scheme which basically isn't an issue because of rule changes.

The third thing that would affect both WR and Abacks is relative lack of opportunities, although for different reasons. WR's just didn't get many catches. Thomas did, but after that our WRs were looking at catches in the 20s on the high end. Abacks were always hurt by the way we rotated and never really featured an A back. With coastal that's not really an issue. The past two years their top guy had 60+ catches and the secondary option was getting about what our first options were getting. This year they have 3 with 27+ receptions already in 10 games.


The last thing is that Johnson just wasn't a good recruiter in his own right. It wasn't the only thing, but it was an issue. Don't know enough about Chadwell to say, but I doubt he would be as bad.

This is where Tech fans' tendency towards analyzing things in great detail might not result in the most self aware understanding of how the program is perceived and why.

 

[roadkill]

@slugboy offered the best response to the "what if" line of thinking:

If we get a good snap and hold on the field goal earlier AND Downs catches that pass, then it's a tie game, and we move down the field to win with a FG. If Sims doesn't get injured OR we had prepped Pyron, maybe we win UVA and look good doing it. If we don't drop tons of passes against UVA (and probably some other games), we're already bowl-eligible. If we have a good punt unit, there are no blocks and no punt returns over 10-15 yards, and our record is much better. If we're going to what-if, we should what-if in both directions.

We're a 5-6 team. In Bill Parcell terms "you are what your record says you are". We won some games and lost some blowouts. It's not all about having a hard schedule, either--it's not like we lost to Ole Miss by 10.

I put a lot of weight on the UVA, FSU, and Miami games. We didn't look good in those games. We're an uneven team. We're better than we were.

To simply assume that Downs' drop was the difference in winning or losing is to ignore how the rest of the game went. Realistically, we still had a fair chance of winning the game (perhaps in OT) had Downs scored. We took over at the 19 with 4:10 to go and gained 32 yards to the UNC 49 while trying to burn clock. If we had instead started at the 25 after a UNC kickoff, gaining the same yardage would have gotten us to the UNC 43. Entirely plausible to think we could have gained another 15 yards or more to get us within range of a tying field goal to send the game into OT with momentum on our side. Also not entirely out of the realm of possibility to think we could have scored a winning TD with 4 minutes to go.

But I agree we are what our record says we are. We have advanced from "abysmal" to "wildly inconsistent". That's not an endorsement of Key, it's just facts.

We can't fairly compare Key and Chadwell's results this year unless we play the substitution game. Key is 4-3 in the ACC. What would Chadwell's record be, if instead, he had taken over after the fourth game instead of Key? I don't know the answer.

 

[Randy Carson]

I do not see why Key gets credit for UNC but no blame for his loss to UVA when he had ten days to prepare for one of the worst P5 teams and then lost.

Mack Brown was frustrated that his team didn't practice well during the week and or play the game with maturity. And UNC has a lot more experience winning than we do right now.

So, yeah...the coaches can try to get the players ready, but if their heads aren't on straight, a trap game will cost you a W.

Key gets credit for taking a dumpster fire and stoking it into a couple of big wins, but if the players don't show up mentally, he can't avoid the loss, either.

 

[WreckinGT]

My thoughts on CBK and offense is CBK is an offensive line coach and those guys understand a whole lot about offense, they spend time working with their OCs. I expect CBK will well understand who and what he is hiring as OC, does that mean we can afford or that he can get exactly who he wants, I have no idea, but IMO an OC is not going to have any problem working for a guy like CBK.
For me a much greater concern than hiring CBK as GT HC is our money situation, we're broke, do not know of NIL money or money for hiring coaches, I do have to believe that our Pres and new AD are working on a remedy based on the commitment Cabrera made and the AD understanding something of our financial situation before he came on board. At least that is my hope, because if that is not fixed we're dead in the water.

Brent Key actually was an OC for one season at UCF. He produced the worst offense in the FBS. That combined with the poor performance of the OL in his tenure here, combined with the reports that he played a big role in Chip Long and Chris Weinke coming here, both of which have been pretty big disappointments, doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies that he will be able to produce a quality offense here.

 

[Randy Carson]

Anyone trying to equate Jamey Chadwell to the flexbone/Veer/Wing T/triple option/etc is REALLY missing the point. Yes, Chadwell uses option concepts within his offense, but his offense is SO MUCH more.

Coastal Carolina is one of the most efficient passing teams in the history of college football. Grayson McCall had a season that ranked #1 ALL TIME in passing efficiency. Read that statement again. Right now, Coastal Carolina ranks #39 is total passing, #3 in passing efficiency. They've passed for MORE yards than teams like FSU, Penn State, LSU. Teams like TCU (with the great Garrett Riley) and 'Bama are less than 500 yards more passing than Coastal.

If the "option" part of Chadwell's offense is scaring off other teams, GOOD! They're doing us a favor. There is a LOT of genius in Chadwell's offense. GT needs to decide if we want to win on the field, or win the fan perception battle. IF GT does pull the trigger on Chadwell, fans will find out REAL fast that the passing game for Chadwell is as much of threat to defenses as his running game. This is as complete of an offense as you'll find on any level of football...and it's why teams have a difficult time defending it. You can't load the box to defend the run, and you can't bring dime packages to defend the pass. You're stuck in no man's land hoping your players make the right decisions defending the run or defending the pass...and more often than not, they're going to be wrong.

I don't hide the fact that Chadwell is my #1 choice, but I am not going to be upset if we don't hire him. If we don't hire him because we have a better candidate with more upside, I'll be just as happy. However, if we don't hire him because some donors can't bare the perception with their drinking buddies that GT "runs the option", well then we've lost the plot.

Nice post. I think if CPJ had better passing QB's during his tenure, we would have been truly dominant.

As it was, D's were able to load up on the run game, and we couldn't give them any reason to respect the pass threat because there was none.

With an exception or two along the way, of course.

 

[UgaBlows]

what week did midterms fall on this season? We’ve historically played poorly that week I was just wondering if it was uva week?

 

[yeti92]

Nice post. I think if CPJ had better passing QB's during his tenure, we would have been truly dominant.

As it was, D's were able to load up on the run game, and we couldn't give them any reason to respect the pass threat because there was none.

With an exception or two along the way, of course.

We did it well enough until Taquon was qb, but he just couldn't pass at all or run the option all that well and ended up calling his own number way too much. We also got away from throwing short passes and letting the receiver beat his man, and ended up just throwing bombs down field and saying a prayer, which isn't a recipe for success.

 

[Randy Carson]

Using your method, here are my game grades...

Pitt 26-21 W. I give this an A+
Duke 24-20 W. I give this a C+ (We won but it was ugly and should not have gone to OT)
UVA 9-16 L. This was a F (The ten days to prepare brings down this grade even more)
FSU 41-16 L. This is a D (We had nine days to prepare for this one, but still were not ready)
VPISU 28-27 W. I give this a C- (The only reason it is barely passing is because we won, but beating VPISU by one was not close to playing well)
Miami 14-35 L. I give this a D (Again, team was not prepared, played poorly, and never adjusted.)
UNC 21-17 W. I give this an A+

Average grade is C to C+

I would have gladly taken a C to C+ in some pretty tough classes.

(Okay, not really. I was an IM, but you get my point. )

 

[stech81]

Brent Key actually was an OC for one season at UCF. He produced the worst offense in the FBS. That combined with the poor performance of the OL in his tenure here, combined with the reports that he played a big role in Chip Long and Chris Weinke coming here, both of which have been pretty big disappointments, doesn't exactly give me warm fuzzies that he will be able to produce a quality offense here.

ok so you don't like Key. But all this was on Key I guess. Sometimes there is more to the story..



Before the UCF football team played a single down in September, the Knights had already moved two quarterbacks to the receivers position, saw at least two players quit the team and lost their most experienced defensive tackle and one of their most experienced receivers due to injuries.

It was just the beginning, with the team sending its best cornerback, Chris Williams, home to Georgia to recover from a gunshot wound.


Head coach George O'Leary added interim athletics director duties to his plate, fueling more speculation about his future plans.

There were so many changes unfolding almost weekly for the Knights that by the time USF ended UCF's season with a 44-3 loss Thanksgiving night, the team's media guide printed in July was almost wholly inaccurate.


Senior defensive lineman Thomas Niles said he expected some challenges this season after UCF saw 21 seniors from the 2014 team leave. Many of the players were long-time starters, helping win two conference championships and two bowl games.
O'Leary said the team's earlier NCAA sanctions created some recruiting limitations that manifested this season after the 2014 class — the last group brought in before the scholarship reductions hit — left. Losing Breshad Perriman and Jacoby Glenn early to the NFL also hurt.

 

[stinger 1957]

Here's an interesting question. If Thacker were to move on after this season - perhaps he's loyal to Geoff, hates GT, gets a better offer elsewhere, whatever - are people still as high on retaining Key?

yes. The question shouts something to me that many of our people have no idea what it takes to be a head coach and what his job is really about, do I know everything it takes absolutely not, but hopefully I understand some of the main ingredients and i think I see some of those if not all of what i consider important. Will CBK be a great HC, I have no idea but i have no idea if any coordinators we might hire will be good either. I have no idea if a previous HC from the NFL will be any good nor from a lesser college division.

 

[Js-showman]

Just labeling it "triple option" wasn't what hurt Johnson the most. What hurt Johnson were some specific aspects that were easy to point to.

The first is lack of throwing success. Coastal doesn't have the same issue. If we normalize for 13 games (meaning 12 + bowl) McCall was on pace for 3k his r. fr year and ~3.4k last year and similar this year. That's not tremendous, but it's good enough to make it not nearly as easy to negative recruit along that line. For Johnson the highest we got was 1719 with Thomas in 14 games. This affected basically the entire offensive side recruiting because it was easy to point to that and use it against QBs, WRs, or OL who wanted to pass block.

The second is the blocking scheme which basically isn't an issue because of rule changes.

The third thing that would affect both WR and Abacks is relative lack of opportunities, although for different reasons. WR's just didn't get many catches. Thomas did, but after that our WRs were looking at catches in the 20s on the high end. Abacks were always hurt by the way we rotated and never really featured an A back. With coastal that's not really an issue. The past two years their top guy had 60+ catches and the secondary option was getting about what our first options were getting. This year they have 3 with 27+ receptions already in 10 games.


The last thing is that Johnson just wasn't a good recruiter in his own right. It wasn't the only thing, but it was an issue. Don't know enough about Chadwell to say, but I doubt he would be as bad.

I was a fan (and still am) of CPJ and liked the offense. But I agree with everything you said. I thought that enhancing the passing game, even by a little, and changing the running formation to utilize more of a feature back would have done wonders for Johnson's ability to both recruit and win. But he was stubborn to a fault. When we had Vad Lee as QB, Johnson did alter the offense to add more pistol concepts, but he seem to do it begrudgingly and never really got behind it. Even when we won games with Vad, I always got the feeling that Johnson didn't like it because he wasn't winning 'his way'. When FSU played Auburn for the Natty in 2014, I thought Malzahn implemented exactly the concepts that we should have pursued. His offense was based on a read-option with a feature back and made much more use of the passing game.

Either way, Johnson was a really good football coach, a great innovator and magnificent game day general. He could have been a historically great football coach if not for his personality issues.

 

[UgaBlows]

Just labeling it "triple option" wasn't what hurt Johnson the most. What hurt Johnson were some specific aspects that were easy to point to.

The first is lack of throwing success. Coastal doesn't have the same issue. If we normalize for 13 games (meaning 12 + bowl) McCall was on pace for 3k his r. fr year and ~3.4k last year and similar this year. That's not tremendous, but it's good enough to make it not nearly as easy to negative recruit along that line. For Johnson the highest we got was 1719 with Thomas in 14 games. This affected basically the entire offensive side recruiting because it was easy to point to that and use it against QBs, WRs, or OL who wanted to pass block.

The second is the blocking scheme which basically isn't an issue because of rule changes.

The third thing that would affect both WR and Abacks is relative lack of opportunities, although for different reasons. WR's just didn't get many catches. Thomas did, but after that our WRs were looking at catches in the 20s on the high end. Abacks were always hurt by the way we rotated and never really featured an A back. With coastal that's not really an issue. The past two years their top guy had 60+ catches and the secondary option was getting about what our first options were getting. This year they have 3 with 27+ receptions already in 10 games.


The last thing is that Johnson just wasn't a good recruiter in his own right. It wasn't the only thing, but it was an issue. Don't know enough about Chadwell to say, but I doubt he would be as bad.

What hurt the perception of CPJ’s offense is that to the uneducated eye it literally looks just like Academy service OLD school option football, and honestly what is the difference besides wider OL splits and a bit more throwing? It was impossible to defeat the narrative because it was essentially true, we played games and won games with zero passes thrown, we ran the QB keeper a LOT.

Chadwell’s offense on the surface looks like everybody else’s RPO college offense, his OL is not blocking like a triple-o offense. The narrative against Chadwell’s offense is BS and can be shouted down, especially if we start winning. We have a QB (Pyron) who can sling it and i’m certain Chadwell will take full advantage of that.

 

[Jacket0323]

Wait.

We were losing to UVA before Sims got knocked out of the game. In fact, Sims was not moving the ball (81 totals yards in five drives with four punts and an INT) and scored no points prior to his departure. Our backup in that game was the same guy who just beat UNC, but also decided to walk out of bounds to end the game. We knew Sims was injured, but Gibson was not ready to effectively run the offense despite being the backup all spring and football season.

As for Miami, again, we behind when ZP was injured and left the game. Again, we struggled to move the ball and score points with our starter. The backup, again, was the same guy who just beat UNC, but also decided to walk out of bounds to end the game against UVA. Again, we knew ZP was injured, but Gibson was not ready to effectively run the offense despite previously starting and being the backup all spring and football season.

I do not see why Key gets credit for UNC but no blame for his loss to UVA when he had ten days to prepare for one of the worst P5 teams and then lost. Further, he gets no blame for losing another game to a really bad Miami team. If you want to say the injuries are a driver, then fine. But it is on Key to make sure the backup is ready. Especially when it is known that the starter is hurt and may not be able to play, as was the case against both UVA and Miami. That does not even take into account the abysmal OL play for which Key is solely responsible that led to all these injuries and poor play by the QB.

The OL situation now appears to be created by Collins.…I would like to see key, Watson, turner, and Tillman on staff somehow. If that is key as HC at less money to acquire big time coordinators so be it.