Half Time Review - Need Better Pitching

[GTNavyNuke]

Or we haven't been getting the type of balls in play that lead to double plays. Looking at how many DP's you get as a barometer of defensive performance is a bad move. There's too much noise in the data.

Well, it could be that we aren't getting the types of balls to turn a double play.

But it's not because there aren't base runners - this year's WHIP is 1.63 versus 1.53 last year. So guys are on.

And the number of hits per 9 innings is about the same - this year it's 9.37 and last year it was 9.50.

The number of DP per game is a lot lower this year than last - .85 per game versus last year 1.27. Now you can call that noise. But if you do most baseball stats are noise and over-extrapolated.

The reason I used this was not just the stats but what I have seen where SS just isn't as quick and fluid as Justus last year. He's only a Fr so he may be better than Justus at some point, he just isn't yet. IMHO!

 

[GTNavyNuke]

As an example, in the fifth tonight the ND steal attempt had Bart's throw to second bouncing before it got there. Just an anecdote. ND scored on next batter.

It's the little things.

 

[Lagrangejacket]

Well, it could be that we aren't getting the types of balls to turn a double play.

But it's not because there aren't base runners - this year's WHIP is 1.63 versus 1.53 last year. So guys are on.

And the number of hits per 9 innings is about the same - this year it's 9.37 and last year it was 9.50.

The number of DP per game is a lot lower this year than last - .85 per game versus last year 1.27. Now you can call that noise. But if you do most baseball stats are noise and over-extrapolated.

The reason I used this was not just the stats but what I have seen where SS just isn't as quick and fluid as Justus last year. He's only a Fr so he may be better than Justus at some point, he just isn't yet. IMHO!

If you included HBP in WHIP, we'd look worse this year, too. We hit 0.10 batsmen per inning last year, and 0.16 this year. We're definitely getting guys on, sometimes we're just making them suffer through a little pain to do it.

 

[FredJacket]

How about this.... perhaps our college baseball team (from Atlanta) can parlay the awesomeness that was the GREATEST baseball player to represent the city on the anniversary his record breaking home run...and put together a quality game TODAY.

 

[Squints]

Well, it could be that we aren't getting the types of balls to turn a double play.

But it's not because there aren't base runners - this year's WHIP is 1.63 versus 1.53 last year. So guys are on.

And the number of hits per 9 innings is about the same - this year it's 9.37 and last year it was 9.50.

The number of DP per game is a lot lower this year than last - .85 per game versus last year 1.27. Now you can call that noise. But if you do most baseball stats are noise and over-extrapolated.

I'm not saying double plays per game itself is noise. What I'm saying is that there is too much noise in the statistic itself to make any definitive statements about the team's defense. You would need to compare batted ball and fielder positioning data as well or you're painting an incomplete picture.

The reason I used this was not just the stats but what I have seen where SS just isn't as quick and fluid as Justus last year. He's only a Fr so he may be better than Justus at some point, he just isn't yet. IMHO!

Which I understand but citing DP/game won't help you there. To be honest, I'm not sure there's any stats at the college level that would show anything either way since the amount of fielding data kept (publicly) is minimal. We have to depend on the eye test there at this point. Which is good and bad.

 

[Squints]

Hughes and English came to GT with problems and would probably not be here if not for those problems.

You're definitely right about Hughes but I don't think that's the case with English. Do you have a source on that? Not being drafted early isn't necessarily indication of that. There are plenty of guys who would be high draft picks come to college simply because they want to. Just off the top of my head J.B. Bukaskas and Seth Beer would have been top of the first round picks simply because they told scouts they wanted to go to college unless they got a huge bonus. No physical issues there.

 

[RoosterJacket]

You're definitely right about Hughes but I don't think that's the case with English. Do you have a source on that? Not being drafted early isn't necessarily indication of that. There are plenty of guys who would be high draft picks come to college simply because they want to. Just off the top of my head J.B. Bukaskas and Seth Beer would have been top of the first round picks simply because they told scouts they wanted to go to college unless they got a huge bonus. No physical issues there.

I know English was shutdown from pitching for a couple of months his senior year due to the infamous "dead arm".

Beer is a strange case for sure---he actually graduated HS early giving up a chance to be drafted until after his Jr year at Clemson. He very likely could've been a 1st-2nd round pick had he stayed for his sr year in HS.

 

[65Jacket]

I know English was shutdown from pitching for a couple of months his senior year due to the infamous "dead arm".

Beer is a strange case for sure---he actually graduated HS early giving up a chance to be drafted until after his Jr year at Clemson. He very likely could've been a 1st-2nd round pick had he stayed for his sr year in HS.

I also heard that English had a "dead arm" and that was why he did not pitch for GT last year. Both he and Hughes were very highly rated until English had "dead arm", in fact I am pretty sure English was the higher rated of the two. He dropped in the draft, and the Orioles discovered Hughes arm defect after the draft.

 

[FredJacket]

This is a pretty big game today. Unless you have completely given up the season [something I do not recommend...btw], this game is very important. We sit at 13th in the conference standings. Disappointed is an extreme understatement. However... it is only halfway AND there are plenty of teams within striking distance in the standings.

I'm not crazy... at this point my expectations for this team are low and seem to be just getting lower. But I do expect them to make the ACC Tournament. Need to be better to do that...just have to be. I sure hope the group in the clubhouse does not get frustrated and finds a way to win the battles as they come. Go JACKETS! Win TODAY!!

 

[RoosterJacket]

I also heard that English had a "dead arm" and that was why he did not pitch for GT last year. Both he and Hughes were very highly rated until English had "dead arm", in fact I am pretty sure English was the higher rated of the two. He dropped in the draft, and the Orioles discovered Hughes arm defect after the draft.

Yep, English was very highly rated. Gibson actually was higher rated than Hughes in Perfect Game they both were ranked fairly high. That's what irks me the most---we are not lacking in talent.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

This is a pretty big game today. Unless you have completely given up the season [something I do not recommend...btw], this game is very important. We sit at 13th in the conference standings. Disappointed is an extreme understatement. However... it is only halfway AND there are plenty of teams within striking distance in the standings.

I'm not crazy... at this point my expectations for this team are low and seem to be just getting lower. But I do expect them to make the ACC Tournament. Need to be better to do that...just have to be. I sure hope the group in the clubhouse does not get frustrated and finds a way to win the battles as they come. Go JACKETS! Win TODAY!!

You definitely have the fan part of fanatic. I haven't completely given up on the season; I'm only 90% of the way there.

I changed my vote above from "pray to deity of choice" to "replace Hall". At some point the failure to recruit / develop pitchers is on him. So many years of bad team pitching means to me that we need a new start. We can only sink one position further in the ACC.

 

[FredJacket]

You definitely have the fan part of fanatic. I haven't completely given up on the season; I'm only 90% of the way there.

I changed my vote above from "pray to deity of choice" to "replace Hall". At some point the failure to recruit / develop pitchers is on him. So many years of bad team pitching means to me that we need a new start. We can only sink one position further in the ACC.

I agree. It pains me to say it... but these last few years have been very hard to plow through. Results are basically sustained regression.

The Clemson/Jack Leggett comparisons sting... no pun intended. However, I would counter that with.., see UNC and Mike Fox. UNC missed NCAA in 2015 & 2016. Didn't even make ACC Tournament last year. This year, they are back in Top 5 territory.

I am more about the now. Just want to see these "kids" enjoy success. This year that would be righting this wayward ship & logging a few big wins.

As for all the strategizing about the future. Recruiting & coaching accountability... just isn't something I am smart on or can really be confident I can analyze appropriately. Sort of a blissful ignorance thing.

 

[Squints]

I know English was shutdown from pitching for a couple of months his senior year due to the infamous "dead arm".

Beer is a strange case for sure---he actually graduated HS early giving up a chance to be drafted until after his Jr year at Clemson. He very likely could've been a 1st-2nd round pick had he stayed for his sr year in HS.

I also heard that English had a "dead arm" and that was why he did not pitch for GT last year. Both he and Hughes were very highly rated until English had "dead arm", in fact I am pretty sure English was the higher rated of the two. He dropped in the draft, and the Orioles discovered Hughes arm defect after the draft.

Right, I'm aware of the "dead arm" you guys are talking about. But only from you guys. I follow the MLB draft pretty obsessively. It's one of my favorite sports events of the year. It's weird, I know. But there was little to no draft buzz about him at any point before his draft year. And no mention of any physical issue concerns. For a guy as highly rated as he was that's indicative of a guy who told scouts not to draft him because he wants to go to college. Even more so that he was drafted in the second to last round. The last couple of rounds are when teams will take highly rated guys in the off chance they can throw some bonus pool savings at them and get them to change their mind. If there were legitimate physical questions why draft him at all at that point? That just doesn't happen all that much. If he was willing to sign he wouldn't have fallen that far from just a "dead arm."

 

[Lagrangejacket]

The Clemson/Jack Leggett comparisons sting... no pun intended. However, I would counter that with.., see UNC and Mike Fox. UNC missed NCAA in 2015 & 2016. Didn't even make ACC Tournament last year. This year, they are back in Top 5 territory.

That's not a good comparison. Mike Fox has made the CWS 5 times since Danny Hall last made it (2006). That earns you a little bit of patience.

 

[RoosterJacket]

Right, I'm aware of the "dead arm" you guys are talking about. But only from you guys. I follow the MLB draft pretty obsessively. It's one of my favorite sports events of the year. It's weird, I know. But there was little to no draft buzz about him at any point before his draft year. And no mention of any physical issue concerns. For a guy as highly rated as he was that's indicative of a guy who told scouts not to draft him because he wants to go to college. Even more so that he was drafted in the second to last round. The last couple of rounds are when teams will take highly rated guys in the off chance they can throw some bonus pool savings at them and get them to change their mind. If there were legitimate physical questions why draft him at all at that point? That just doesn't happen all that much. If he was willing to sign he wouldn't have fallen that far from just a "dead arm."

My bad--I wasn't trying to imply that's why he wasn't drafted until late. I completely agree he very likely gave a number that he would sign for before the draft and no teams wanted to reach that number for him; so he was completely good with coming to college.

 

[FredJacket]

That's not a good comparison. Mike Fox has made the CWS 5 times since Danny Hall last made it (2006). That earns you a little bit of patience.

Good point. That does buy you quite a bit of time.