Had Johnson been coaching the Seahawks.....

[Skeptic]

The play call wasn't that bad and I think there's a lot of hindsight going around about it right now. And I think us GT fans in particular are spoiled about our short yardage success. Think about the situation. When the Seahawks got to the goal line they only had one time out and the clock was running because Belichick didn't use one of the two he had (puzzling at the time but turned out to be a pretty good move). They'd have to throw at some point unless you ran it in the first play which isn't a guarantee. Consider the Seahawks O-line isn't that good, the Patriots have and elite goal line defense in which is exceptionally good at clogging running lanes, and they had already stuffed Marshawn 2/3 times in short yardage during the game, and he was 1/5 running from the one during the season. Getting in on a run play was not a guarantee. Call a pass play that is either an incompletion or a TD and worst case you stop the clock. And you get two chances to run it in with your time out. Tell your QB that an interception absolutely CAN NOT HAPPEN. Russell Wilson has a 1.5% int rate so he's pretty good with the ball. And the slant rub play they ran is conceptually sound against the man coverage the Patriots showed.

But Russell did exactly what you can't do. That was the big issue. Put the ball in a spot where it could be picked. I think the blame falls more on him for the execution than the offensive coordinator for the play call.

It also turns out the Patriots were incredibly well coached and prepared for the play. Go look up gifs and screencaps. Here's one that shows the window for the throw: http://i.imgur.com/LYBu1tB.jpg. The throw is there but Butler made an unbelievable defensive play to get to the spot of the throw. As soon as Lockette put his foot in the ground to cut Butler instinctively beelined for where he needed to be. That's coaching. In the post game interviews Butler said that they practiced against it with the scout team and he got beat. Belichick himself told him that he needs to be all over that play. That great play by Butler and throw by Russell caused the result. Butler is late to the spot or Russell puts the ball a little lower we could be praising the call or forgetting all about it. All you can do in that situation is tip your cap. Seahawks got outplayed and outcoached in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is wasted timeout earlier on that drive. If they have another timeout they can just run it three times without worry about the clock. That really hurt them in this situation.

Good analysis, but if I were going to chunk it on the goal line I do not believe I would just fallback and fire it into the most congested area of the field. There were actually two Patriots on the ball there, kind of remindful of a certain OT pick against Georgia: two there, one got it. But at least Ga. threw it deeper into the end zone to clear things out a bit.

 

[Squints]

Good analysis, but if I were going to chunk it on the goal line I do not believe I would just fallback and fire it into the most congested area of the field. There were actually two Patriots on the ball there, kind of remindful of a certain OT pick against Georgia: two there, one got it. But at least Ga. threw it deeper into the end zone to clear things out a bit.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean by congestion I don't quite agree with you on that as there's no way Browner makes a play on that ball (though he completely shut down the attempted rub) and that Butler play is like a 1/100 thing so the throwing lane was definitely there. But that's splitting hairs I think you've definitely got a fair point. They probably could have tried something with a little more margin for error. It did look like Marshawn was coming open on a wheel route but I think it was a one read play and that it was going to Lockette or no one. Maybe call a play that gives the QB a chance to read the defense a little longer before he has to pull the trigger. The similarity with the Georgia game from this year immediately jumped out to me. Both were great defensive plays beating a receiver to the spot by well coached players at huge moments.

 

[takethepoints]

True story.

When Bill Curry started coaching at Tech he would go see Coach Dodd every Monday to go over the play calls. In one game he called a pass on 3rd down at the opponent's 4 yard line. Incomplete and Tech didn't go on to score. Curry said he knew what was coming when he walked into Dodd's office:

Dodd: "Son, how long have I been calling plays?"

Curry: "I don't know Coach."

Dodd: "55 years. Now, what did I tell you about passing the ball inside the 5 yard line?"

Curry: "You told me not to do it."

Dodd: "That's right, and now you know why."

What I (and CPJ, I bet) would have done is call a counter. Have Wilson fake a handoff to Lynch, then immediately turn and run to corner of the end zone. Well, actually, he could have walked into the end zone if the Hawks had called that; everybody on the other side would have bitten on the fake. But to do that you would have to really commit to running 11 on 11 football part of the time and, as last night showed, the Hawks haven't gotten that far yet.

 

[jeffgt14]

You can try to make sense out of the call all you want but it was stupid. You have a timeout with the best running back in football and you line up in SHOTGUN from the one yard line. Why don't you ask the Chicago Bears who have Matt Forte how well that works out. I'm (halfway) ok with passing the ball on the one yard line but at least line up under center so you don't give the defense a half second longer to sit back before committing to the run. There isn't much the pisses me off more than lining up in Shotgun from the 1 yard line. I just remember UNC playing somebody this year (Duke Maybe?) where they would move the ball at will all over the field and multiple times they end up at the one yard line and pissed their pants because all of a sudden their shotgun formations couldn't punch it in.

 

[TechnicalPossum]

From the Rumble Seat did a good analysis of this question:

http://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/20...son-would-have-called-seattles-goal-line-play

 

[Leonard Larramore]

I was in total shock. Why call a pass play. Run, Run, Run.

A friend of mine who played for the Jags called me and we went back and fourth about the game. He is a die hard Hurricane fan and I am repping GT these days so you guys know we clash about everything. I usually come out on top but he got me last night. He made a statement that every coach makes a bone head call in his career. I responded yeah but that was stupid. He fires back with do you think Paul Johnson is a good coach. I responded yeah I think he is pretty cool. He then dropped a bomb. Then while playing in the Music City Bowl why did he call a reverse that ended up costing you guys two points. I replied you got one in this time. Dude was so happy I gave him props that he stopped talking about Seattle. Lol lol.

Last I don't think Lynch is a publicity hound. If he always wanted to be in front of the camera then I would feel different. Don't get me wrong I think he should soften his stance on talking to the media. [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Running the ball into the endzone is something a high school offense would do. Recruits aren't going to go to a school that doesn't throw INTs from the half yard line.

BOOM!

 

[jeffgt14]

Last I don't think Lynch is a publicity hound. If he always wanted to be in front of the camera then I would feel different. Don't get me wrong I think he should soften his stance on talking to the media.

Yea I don’t get how anyone can say that. The whole reason he acts like he does is because he doesn’t want to do interviews in the first place. He may be a smart*** for how is handling the interviews he is forced to do but I don’t see the publicity hound.

 

[ClydeBrick]

The play call wasn't that bad and I think there's a lot of hindsight going around about it right now. And I think us GT fans in particular are spoiled about our short yardage success. Think about the situation. When the Seahawks got to the goal line they only had one time out and the clock was running because Belichick didn't use one of the two he had (puzzling at the time but turned out to be a pretty good move). They'd have to throw at some point unless you ran it in the first play which isn't a guarantee. Consider the Seahawks O-line isn't that good, the Patriots have and elite goal line defense in which is exceptionally good at clogging running lanes, and they had already stuffed Marshawn 2/3 times in short yardage during the game, and he was 1/5 running from the one during the season. Getting in on a run play was not a guarantee. Call a pass play that is either an incompletion or a TD and worst case you stop the clock. And you get two chances to run it in with your time out. Tell your QB that an interception absolutely CAN NOT HAPPEN. Russell Wilson has a 1.5% int rate so he's pretty good with the ball. And the slant rub play they ran is conceptually sound against the man coverage the Patriots showed.

But Russell did exactly what you can't do. That was the big issue. Put the ball in a spot where it could be picked. I think the blame falls more on him for the execution than the offensive coordinator for the play call.

It also turns out the Patriots were incredibly well coached and prepared for the play. Go look up gifs and screencaps. Here's one that shows the window for the throw: http://i.imgur.com/LYBu1tB.jpg. The throw is there but Butler made an unbelievable defensive play to get to the spot of the throw. As soon as Lockette put his foot in the ground to cut Butler instinctively beelined for where he needed to be. That's coaching. In the post game interviews Butler said that they practiced against it with the scout team and he got beat. Belichick himself told him that he needs to be all over that play. That great play by Butler and throw by Russell caused the result. Butler is late to the spot or Russell puts the ball a little lower we could be praising the call or forgetting all about it. All you can do in that situation is tip your cap. Seahawks got outplayed and outcoached in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is wasted timeout earlier on that drive. If they have another timeout they can just run it three times without worry about the clock. That really hurt them in this situation.

Even though I am having fun with play, I agree with your post. It is like CPJ said after the Music City Bowl last year; "If that (reverse) play works, you call me a genius. When it doesn't work, you call me a dum$@#."

When the mutts were crucifying Bobo for the 1st & Goal play at USCe and The Pick, I was laughing at them: Making the obvious call (Gurley/Chubb rush) is not always the best call - defenses tend to play the odds. Those plays - like the Seahawks yesterday - were colossal failures because of the execution - not the call. Blaming Bobo for the failure of a 21 year old kid being screamed at by 90k fans is ridiculous. All Mason - and Wilson - had to do was not get rid of the ball in a fashion that hurts (fumble, sack, intentional grounding or INT). With Mason, you can give him a pass due to his experience level, with Wilson - not so much. In either situation if the play works its great, if the play simply fails you move on to the next down - when the play results in a turnover (or a big penalty) because of a poor decision by a player it is the player who is at fault, not the play-caller.

If the Seahawks score a TD on that play, Carroll is declared a gutsy-play-calling genius and Belichick is a idiot for not stopping the clock. And Jemaine Kearse cannot buy a drink in a bar for the rest of his life.

Dang, football is a funny sport.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

From the Rumble Seat did a good analysis of this question:

http://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/20...son-would-have-called-seattles-goal-line-play

Thanks for the recommendation of our site.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

The play call wasn't that bad and I think there's a lot of hindsight going around about it right now. And I think us GT fans in particular are spoiled about our short yardage success. Think about the situation. When the Seahawks got to the goal line they only had one time out and the clock was running because Belichick didn't use one of the two he had (puzzling at the time but turned out to be a pretty good move). They'd have to throw at some point unless you ran it in the first play which isn't a guarantee. Consider the Seahawks O-line isn't that good, the Patriots have and elite goal line defense in which is exceptionally good at clogging running lanes, and they had already stuffed Marshawn 2/3 times in short yardage during the game, and he was 1/5 running from the one during the season. Getting in on a run play was not a guarantee. Call a pass play that is either an incompletion or a TD and worst case you stop the clock. And you get two chances to run it in with your time out. Tell your QB that an interception absolutely CAN NOT HAPPEN. Russell Wilson has a 1.5% int rate so he's pretty good with the ball. And the slant rub play they ran is conceptually sound against the man coverage the Patriots showed.

But Russell did exactly what you can't do. That was the big issue. Put the ball in a spot where it could be picked. I think the blame falls more on him for the execution than the offensive coordinator for the play call.

It also turns out the Patriots were incredibly well coached and prepared for the play. Go look up gifs and screencaps. Here's one that shows the window for the throw: http://i.imgur.com/LYBu1tB.jpg. The throw is there but Butler made an unbelievable defensive play to get to the spot of the throw. As soon as Lockette put his foot in the ground to cut Butler instinctively beelined for where he needed to be. That's coaching. In the post game interviews Butler said that they practiced against it with the scout team and he got beat. Belichick himself told him that he needs to be all over that play. That great play by Butler and throw by Russell caused the result. Butler is late to the spot or Russell puts the ball a little lower we could be praising the call or forgetting all about it. All you can do in that situation is tip your cap. Seahawks got outplayed and outcoached in the 4th quarter.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning is wasted timeout earlier on that drive. If they have another timeout they can just run it three times without worry about the clock. That really hurt them in this situation.

Part of the blame is with the receiver who had no clue the db was coming hard and had equal leverage on the ball. If he had anticipated the play of the db, he could have positioned himself better to 'box out' the db. That was real close to being pi, but Butler timed it perfectly and was the stronger man. A quicker pass would have worked, too.

 

[TechnicalPossum]

Thanks for the recommendation of our site.

Give credit where credit is due. To me, FTRS and GTSwarm are complimentary rather than a one or the other type deal. GTSwarm is more of an interactive site where FTRS is more staff-written articles/analysis.

And, the technical tidbits are a good compilation of other media sources with a brief summary. Easily my favorite feature of FTRS.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I was in total shock. Why call a pass play. Run, Run, Run.

A friend of mine who played for the Jags called me and we went back and fourth about the game. He is a die hard Hurricane fan and I am repping GT these days so you guys know we clash about everything. I usually come out on top but he got me last night. He made a statement that every coach makes a bone head call in his career. I responded yeah but that was stupid. He fires back with do you think Paul Johnson is a good coach. I responded yeah I think he is pretty cool. He then dropped a bomb. Then while playing in the Music City Bowl why did he call a reverse that ended up costing you guys two points. I replied you got one in this time. Dude was so happy I gave him props that he stopped talking about Seattle. Lol lol.

Last I don't think Lynch is a publicity hound. If he always wanted to be in front of the camera then I would feel different. Don't get me wrong I think he should soften his stance on talking to the media. [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]

Yes, in both cases the head coaches over thought the situation. The difference is that the call CPJ made was a little more in desperation. Not much was working smoothly on offense at that point in the Music City Bowl. On the other hand in the Super Bowl Lynch had become pretty much unstoppable and was ripping off five and six yards a carry on some plays. The pass play would have been a brilliant call if it had worked but the other call that everyone would have seen coming was the one to make. Run the play and if it doesn't work call time out and kick the field goal. New England probably could not have stopped Seattle's running game in over time.

 

[Skeptic]

From the Rumble Seat did a good analysis of this question:

http://www.fromtherumbleseat.com/20...son-would-have-called-seattles-goal-line-play

Now that is funny. Triple option, indeed. Thanks for the link.

 

[Leonard Larramore]

Even though I am having fun with play, I agree with your post. It is like CPJ said after the Music City Bowl last year; "If that (reverse) play works, you call me a genius. When it doesn't work, you call me a dum$@#."

When the mutts were crucifying Bobo for the 1st & Goal play at USCe and The Pick, I was laughing at them: Making the obvious call (Gurley/Chubb rush) is not always the best call - defenses tend to play the odds. Those plays - like the Seahawks yesterday - were colossal failures because of the execution - not the call. Blaming Bobo for the failure of a 21 year old kid being screamed at by 90k fans is ridiculous. All Mason - and Wilson - had to do was not get rid of the ball in a fashion that hurts (fumble, sack, intentional grounding or INT). With Mason, you can give him a pass due to his experience level, with Wilson - not so much. In either situation if the play works its great, if the play simply fails you move on to the next down - when the play results in a turnover (or a big penalty) because of a poor decision by a player it is the player who is at fault, not the play-caller.

If the Seahawks score a TD on that play, Carroll is declared a gutsy-play-calling genius and Belichick is a idiot for not stopping the clock. And Jemaine Kearse cannot buy a drink in a bar for the rest of his life.

Dang, football is a funny sport.

Nah if it worked I would have called it a risky call. Don't get me wrong it woulD have celebrated but still I call what I see regardless the outcome.

As far as Johnson's statement, he softened his position by stating that along with more pass rush, he possibly would have thought about that call. I would like to make is this statement. Not one coach in this game we love called football is perfect. If Johnson makes a questionable call it does not mean that fans who may see something else does not like Johnson or question if he is a good coach or not. It just mean Johnson is human. Now those screaming fire Johnson may have gone a little far. At the end of the day one thing we call all agree on is this. The coaches and these players came together to give us a heck of a season.

Go Jackets!!!!

 

[TheGridironGeek]

I was in total shock. Why call a pass play. Run, Run, Run.

A friend of mine who played for the Jags called me and we went back and fourth about the game. He is a die hard Hurricane fan and I am repping GT these days so you guys know we clash about everything. I usually come out on top but he got me last night. He made a statement that every coach makes a bone head call in his career. I responded yeah but that was stupid. He fires back with do you think Paul Johnson is a good coach. I responded yeah I think he is pretty cool. He then dropped a bomb. Then while playing in the Music City Bowl why did he call a reverse that ended up costing you guys two points. I replied you got one in this time. Dude was so happy I gave him props that he stopped talking about Seattle. Lol lol.

Last I don't think Lynch is a publicity hound. If he always wanted to be in front of the camera then I would feel different. Don't get me wrong I think he should soften his stance on talking to the media. [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]

These are all my sentiments exactly. I was thinking about how GT could have run for one yard (assuming there was no ticky-tack illegal block called) with 3 tries. Against the New England Patriots. How much different is that athletic disadvantage from The Citadel vs. FSU, and the Bulldogs ran for 250 yards in that game. You can bet your stones CPJ under no circumstances would pass the ball when the Seahawks did. IMO the Music City safety was a different type of situation.

Pete Carroll had checkmate-in-one, and he picked up his King and ate it.

 

[Leonard Larramore]

Yes, in both cases the head coaches over thought the situation. The difference is that the call CPJ made was a little more in desperation. Not much was working smoothly on offense at that point in the Music City Bowl. On the other hand in the Super Bowl Lynch had become pretty much unstoppable and was ripping off five and six yards a carry on some plays. The pass play would have been a brilliant call if it had worked but the other call that everyone would have seen coming was the one to make. Run the play and if it doesn't work call time out and kick the field goal. New England probably could not have stopped Seattle's running game in over time.

They where down by 4. A field goal was not an option if they wanted to secure a win

 

[Skeptic]

They where down by 4. A field goal was not an option if they wanted to secure a win

You get four in Arizona, maybe?

 

[Northeast Stinger]

oops, wrong game.

 

[Fatmike91]

That pass is typical of the NFL and a "pro set" offense. It's a bad call, but one that many NFL teams would also likely make.

/