GT depth chart for Pitt

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
10,790
I think he's just saying they're getting it wrong. Coaches are indeed at practice but they are also susceptible to paralysis of analysis which I think has to be the reason he's still starting. They're not idiots but could certainly be thick-headed.

I'm sure the guys who are being passed over probably don't do as well in practice. That doesn't automatically mean they won't be as good in games. But, football coaches appear to be slaves to 'he who does x in practice will play'. Well, that doesn't always work. The evidence of that has been beaten into our heads the past few Saturdays.
Yes, but if no one is stepping up you keep the competition as high as you can in practice and let the best player earn his time. I can't see any other way to do it at this point given the fact that no one has stepped it up on the field yet. I remember that Stargel had distanced himself from the others in practice and there was evidence that he had finally developed as a player. When he faltered Chungong came in and looked like he was going to do it. Now we are going with a guy who has practiced hard for a long time. My choice would be Chungong at this point but I do not know what the dynamics are on the team and what is going on in practice.
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,653
Location
Georgia
I overreacted, had a couple a beers last night, sorry. However, I think you are being a little over the top yourself. Maybe it's not as you say, but more along the lines of none of the guys have really separated themselves from each other? Maybe they're all pretty much the same with varied strengths and weaknesses? Maybe the coaches were using the first few games against supposed lesser talent to find out about their personnel. Just as you say, guys don't always perform the same in games as they do in practice.

Here's some things we do know as facts:

a) None of us go to practice
b) The coaches actually do go to practices, watch miles of game film and know these guys inside and out, probably better than their own parents know them.
c) The coaches are professionals who's jobs depend on getting it right, who weren't chosen because they were somebody's son or pal. Rather, they were chosen because of their proven track records as coaches.
d) We were dealt a devastating blow of both natural and unnatural attrition in the offseason to a defense that was already pretty bad last year.

Does this mean the coaches are infallible, of course not. Does it mean they know better than the message board "experts"? Probably.

And with all that coaches get stuff wrong all the time including personnel and the fact stargel has dissappeared shows me that. If they were all about equal they would be getting relatively the same amount of snaps. The fact that they are not says even more to me.

I really believe Ted is in over his head. Clearly you dont think so. I do. I think his head is spinning so much on how his team is blowing assignments and his system isnt working that everything else including creativity with personnel is being overlooked.
 

wuzjrbuzz

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
169
I really believe Ted is in over his head. Clearly you dont think so. I do. I think his head is spinning so much on how his team is blowing assignments and his system isnt working that everything else including creativity with personnel is being overlooked.

I agree with this, he looks overwhelmed at this point, not good. So many things to fix, and he seems stuck in the mud.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,150
And with all that coaches get stuff wrong all the time including personnel and the fact stargel has dissappeared shows me that. If they were all about equal they would be getting relatively the same amount of snaps. The fact that they are not says even more to me.

I really believe Ted is in over his head. Clearly you dont think so. I do. I think his head is spinning so much on how his team is blowing assignments and his system isnt working that everything else including creativity with personnel is being overlooked.
I really don't understand your logic here. You're saying the coaches got it wrong because Stargel was starting for weeks and he was so bad. Then you're saying the coaches are wrong because Stargel isn't starting. Then you're saying the coaches are bad because Chungong was starting and then because he isn't. Then they're just in over their head because some other guy (Travis) is starting.

It sounds to me like there is no right answer for you unless we find somebody who's actually a playmaker. Well, what if there isn't anybody like that? I haven't seen Travis being as bad as you and others are saying, and I think y'all are saying that just because he doesn't look the part and not because he's been any less productive than the other guys at the position. I actually think he's been more productive than the other guys which is why he's still starting. But, that makes too much sense.

What you've got to accept as your first premise in order to logically understand the coaches' decisions here is that we don't have anybody who can do better! If we did, they'd be playing! I'm sure we'll keep the competition open and keep looking, but it's highly unlikely that we are going to find a 3rd string OL or a 2nd string DT (on a team with only 4 total) who can be a better DE than the guys that are there. If they were that good, they probably wouldn't be 3'rd string OL or 2nd string DT. Putting Gamble at DE might be an option, but then who's going to rotate in at DT? He plays about as much at DT as Green does.

Dude, when you lose 6 out of your top 8 DL in the Spring (3 of 4 starters), your defense in the fall isn't going to just keep rolling.

If you're talking about trying out some possible pass rushing guys on obvious passing downs, then sure, I'm with you, but it's quite possible that the guys we've got out there are actually the best pass rushers. Maybe throwing Simmons out there could make a difference, or maybe it could make it worse.

I have no doubt in my mind that they're putting the best guys they have on the field and they will continue to look for ways to improve and ways to get guys who can do better at something a chance to do that, but I knew (and I would think you and most others knew) going into this season that our defense was in trouble. I didn't know if Roof had a scheme that could mask that many personnel issues. Turns out he doesn't, and I'm not sure even Tenuta's scheme could mask that much, and I 'm as big a Tenuta fan as anybody.

We've all seen Ted put a better defense on the field when he has better personnel (GT-2000, GT-2001, PSU-2012, last year was undoubtedly better than this year), so I think Ted can be successful here with a little better personnel situation, which I think we will have starting next year and going forward.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,486
Well said Vamos. FWIW....Travis had a tackle for loss vs. Duke....not many other guys did. I know TFls arent the end all be all but they are an indicator of play making ability. We just need lots n lots more. Having said that...I was a bit surprised we did not see more of Chungong the last couple games. Seems able to contribute so a rotation makes sense. I'll defer to the coaches though.
 

vamosjackets

GT Athlete
Featured Member
Messages
2,150
Maybe the rationale for not subbing is that the longer the guys are out there the better their chance at improving ... improving both at stopping the particular offense they're facing in that particular game and improving as a player in general. I can see it both ways. If you've got the best guy out there and he just got beat on a play, you think, "he'll probably stop that play next time, whereas if I put a new guy in there he won't have seen that play and he'll get beat too." I do think there's advantage to rotating and I'm ready to see some rotation if for no other reason than that we can hardly get any worse and maybe we can develop some more guys for the future. But, I'm not gonna call for new starters just because of bad results.
 

33jacket

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,653
Location
Georgia
I really don't understand your logic here. You're saying the coaches got it wrong because Stargel was starting for weeks and he was so bad. Then you're saying the coaches are wrong because Stargel isn't starting. Then you're saying the coaches are bad because Chungong was starting and then because he isn't. Then they're just in over their head because some other guy (Travis) is starting.

It sounds to me like there is no right answer for you unless we find somebody who's actually a playmaker. Well, what if there isn't anybody like that? I haven't seen Travis being as bad as you and others are saying, and I think y'all are saying that just because he doesn't look the part and not because he's been any less productive than the other guys at the position. I actually think he's been more productive than the other guys which is why he's still starting. But, that makes too much sense.

What you've got to accept as your first premise in order to logically understand the coaches' decisions here is that we don't have anybody who can do better! If we did, they'd be playing! I'm sure we'll keep the competition open and keep looking, but it's highly unlikely that we are going to find a 3rd string OL or a 2nd string DT (on a team with only 4 total) who can be a better DE than the guys that are there. If they were that good, they probably wouldn't be 3'rd string OL or 2nd string DT. Putting Gamble at DE might be an option, but then who's going to rotate in at DT? He plays about as much at DT as Green does.

Dude, when you lose 6 out of your top 8 DL in the Spring (3 of 4 starters), your defense in the fall isn't going to just keep rolling.

If you're talking about trying out some possible pass rushing guys on obvious passing downs, then sure, I'm with you, but it's quite possible that the guys we've got out there are actually the best pass rushers. Maybe throwing Simmons out there could make a difference, or maybe it could make it worse.

I have no doubt in my mind that they're putting the best guys they have on the field and they will continue to look for ways to improve and ways to get guys who can do better at something a chance to do that, but I knew (and I would think you and most others knew) going into this season that our defense was in trouble. I didn't know if Roof had a scheme that could mask that many personnel issues. Turns out he doesn't, and I'm not sure even Tenuta's scheme could mask that much, and I 'm as big a Tenuta fan as anybody.

We've all seen Ted put a better defense on the field when he has better personnel (GT-2000, GT-2001, PSU-2012, last year was undoubtedly better than this year), so I think Ted can be successful here with a little better personnel situation, which I think we will have starting next year and going forward.

Dont have time to read all this. I am saying they got it wrong starting stargel and are continuing to get it wrong starting travis...they need to look more creatively at who they play and with what scheme. They have been so focused on their errors he has not creatively fixed the problem

Maybe a better way of stating this is I do not believe our four best lineman are playing at once

Then I would add that are scheme needs to take more risk to make up for the lack of talent
 

Dustman

Helluva Engineer
Messages
1,246
Any chance we see Harrell in the middle with Nealy and Davis outside? I feel like these are our best 3 against the run.
 

franklinjacket

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
297
I wonder what our D would look like with Robbins, Akins, HD, Darius, and Whitehead playing. Even just Kitchens would add depth. Hard to bounce back from losses like this even from a pure depth standpoint.
 
Top