Great Take.

JacketFan137

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Which goes back to the article. I always heard that Johnson wanted to increase the recruiting budget and add more heads. (Would love for someone to confirm.) Apparently, The AD and the Hill didn’t want to support him. Kirby comes into UGA and adds 8 more recruiters to the existing staff. He added way more than we had to begin with. A great example of institutional support that we don’t have. We could have saved ourselves millions in debt if we would have put just a little support behind a guy who had some degree of success.
when it comes to big purchases for me i always feel like it’s buy it nice or buy it twice. if we don’t put in money and go cheap like we did with collins we get stuck paying buyouts down the line. if we hire a serious coach and pay him well and support him with his staff and recruiting budget we won’t be having new hire discussions
 

Js-showman

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when it comes to big purchases for me i always feel like it’s buy it nice or buy it twice. if we don’t put in money and go cheap like we did with collins we get stuck paying buyouts down the line. if we hire a serious coach and pay him well and support him with his staff and recruiting budget we won’t be having new hire discussions
I have seen this in business and technology countless times. There’s never money to do it right. But there’s always money to do it over. It’s maddening.
 

JacketFan137

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I would argue that you can get to a natty at GT. Cincinnati got into the playoff last year. But we aren’t going to get there by trying to recreate Bama or Clemson or UGA. That isn’t who we are.
people say stuff like this, but tell me how many nationally competitive “scheme”/x’s and o’s/option teams are out there competing with clemson/bama/uga/ohio state. recruiting is the name of the game to get to that level. period. there is a bare minimum athletic threshold you have to clear to compete with those teams.

you can have the best coaches in the world and the best scheme in the world but some point a will anderson, bosa brother, jordan davis or whoever is gonna just blow it all up.

recruiting, development and scheme are equal priorities that you have to fire on to be a good team.
 

Augusta_Jacket

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I would argue that you can get to a natty at GT. Cincinnati got into the playoff last year. But we aren’t going to get there by trying to recreate Bama or Clemson or UGA. That isn’t who we are.

That's about to get harder, though not impossible, with the ACC going to divisionless play. We have to be top two ranked teams to get into the ACCCG to have a real shot at the expanded playoff. For instance, If Clemson was undefeated and Miami was undefeated and GT was 11-1, (entirely possible with the new format), then GT would be left home watching in the cold after an amazing year.
 

joehamiltonfan14

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That's about to get harder, though not impossible, with the ACC going to divisionless play. We have to be top two ranked teams to get into the ACCCG to have a real shot at the expanded playoff. For instance, If Clemson was undefeated and Miami was undefeated and GT was 11-1, (entirely possible with the new format), then GT would be left home watching in the cold after an amazing year.
In this scenario we would likely be one of the six highest ranked at large teams once the playoffs expand to 12. With the right coach I think the expanded playoffs are in reach.
 

85Escape

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when it comes to big purchases for me i always feel like it’s buy it nice or buy it twice. if we don’t put in money and go cheap like we did with collins we get stuck paying buyouts down the line. if we hire a serious coach and pay him well and support him with his staff and recruiting budget we won’t be having new hire discussions
Buy once. Cry once.
 

Js-showman

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people say stuff like this, but tell me how many nationally competitive “scheme”/x’s and o’s/option teams are out there competing with clemson/bama/uga/ohio state. recruiting is the name of the game to get to that level. period. there is a bare minimum athletic threshold you have to clear to compete with those teams.

you can have the best coaches in the world and the best scheme in the world but some point a will anderson, bosa brother, jordan davis or whoever is gonna just blow it all up.

recruiting, development and scheme are equal priorities that you have to fire on to be a good team.
You just cannot break out of that paradigm can you? We are GT. We are going to get the occasional Calvin Johnson or Demarius Thomas, but those are exceptions. We need a scheme where we can make recruits successful, like a Josh Nesbitt or a Taylor Bennet. If you haven’t noticed, we won a lot more games with Tevin Washington than with Jeff Sims. We need to build in that approach. We are NOT going to get a stable of 5 star recruits at every position. Texas spent $600k in recruiting expense just to land Manning. Even if we had that kind of $$, it would probably go to debt service, so Give it a rest. If you insist that this your path to success, get acclimated to disappointment.
 
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JacketFan137

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You just cannot break out of that paradigm can you? We are GT. We are going to get the occasional Calvin Johnson or Demarius Thomas, but those are exceptions. We need a scheme where we can make recruits successful, like a Josh Nesbitt or a Taylor Bennet. If you haven’t noticed, we won a lot more games with Tevin Washington than with Jeff Sims. We need to build in that approach. We are NOT going to get a stable of 5 star recruits at every position. Texas spent $600k in recruiting expense just to land Manning. Give it a rest. If you insist that this your path to success, get acclimated to disappointment.
josh nesbitt was a 4* recruit and possibly our highest qb recruit in school history. or maybe it was justin thomas who was also a 4*. weird how the only two ny6 bowls the last two decades came with our two best recruits at the position 🤔

no one is saying that we need to spend that money to recruit. you can stop straining yourself reaching for those straws. we do have to recruit better than both collins and johnson if we wish to compete at a p5 level and look remotely competitive with uga and clemson. whether we like it or not that has to be the bar because we play them every year forever.

this is not a debate or a discussion. you have to get the best athletes in the school you can or you will be left behind in p5 football. you also have to develop them and coach effectively on game day. to ignore any of those aspects in your program is a major problem. look at the 2021 recruiting class rankings. there is zero reason that expecting us to recruit at or above the level of mizzou, rutgers, oklahoma state, boston college, virginia, and cal (who are all in the late 20s/30s in class rankings) should be seen as some pipe dream.

you can run the best scheme in the world but you still have to have the athletes to compete

also all your tevin washington anecdote has told us is that johnson is a better coach than collins. thank you for pointing out the obvious
 

Augusta_Jacket

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josh nesbitt was a 4* recruit and possibly our highest qb recruit in school history. or maybe it was justin thomas who was also a 4*. weird how the only two ny6 bowls the last two decades came with our two best recruits at the position 🤔

True, but JeT was rated 4* as an Athlete with the expectation he would be playing CB at the college level. He was not projected as a 4* college QB. He was simply the perfect blend of athleticism and talent for CPJs system.
 

JacketFan137

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True, but JeT was rated 4* as an Athlete with the expectation he would be playing CB at the college level. He was not projected as a 4* college QB. He was simply the perfect blend of athleticism and talent for CPJs system.
he was the number 9 dual threat qb according to wikipedia. he was also rated as he was rated a 4* athlete though largely based on physical ability. he was fast and strong as an ox.

either way the point stands, you get the best athletes on campus you possibly can and good things happen

edit: misunderstood jet to be nesbitt*

still though jt’s speed and agility were uncoachable traits. give me the better athlete every day of the week and the potential is way higher
 

Augusta_Jacket

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he was the number 9 dual threat qb according to wikipedia. he was also rated as he was rated a 4* athlete though largely based on physical ability. he was fast and strong as an ox.

either way the point stands, you get the best athletes on campus you possibly can and good things happen

edit: misunderstood jet to be nesbitt*

still though jt’s speed and agility were uncoachable traits. give me the better athlete every day of the week and the potential is way higher

According to Rivals and 247, he's not ranked at all for Dual Purpose QB. He was ranked 9th as an athlete.



 

JacketFan137

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According to Rivals and 247, he's not ranked at all for Dual Purpose QB. He was ranked 9th as an athlete.



i mistook jet to be josh nesbitt idk if you saw my edit.
 

takethepoints

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pretending that this is the same uga from 2014 and the majority of paul’s tenure is bending reality. they are entering their schools peak right now and the next 5 years are about to be their best stretch in school history if it hasn’t been already since kirby was hired.

it’s gonna take a lot more than some x’s and o’s to play with them unfortunately. they aren’t just beating teams anymore they’re just crushing everyone
To you and all others saying this, I have one reply: small sample size. It could be that Ugag has gotten "out of reach" for Tech. I'll believe it when I see it. And, if I do, then we need to quit playing them, except in the playoffs.

Now, I'll tell you that I think that with the right coaching Tech can play with them. Beat them 5 out of 10? Probably not. Beat them 3 out of ten? Sure.
 

JacketFan137

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To you and all others saying this, I have one reply: small sample size. It could be that Ugag has gotten "out of reach" for Tech. I'll believe it when I see it. And, if I do, then we need to quit playing them, except in the playoffs.

Now, I'll tell you that I think that with the right coaching Tech can play with them. Beat them 5 out of 10? Probably not. Beat them 3 out of ten? Sure.
it depends on the year. uga last year and this year would wallop any tech team the last 20 years. i don’t see any of those games being remotely competitive. they are factually operating at a different level.

maybe in a year, two, maybe three years down the line they fall to reality a bit and we can catch them but idk. when they play teams that aren’t bama or clemson right now these games are just relentless beat downs. i don’t see how they get upset by anyone outside the top 15 for the foreseeable future.

the only way to beat them is to some how match the athletes they have. if you don’t it’s not a good time
 

GTThor

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True, but JeT was rated 4* as an Athlete with the expectation he would be playing CB at the college level. He was not projected as a 4* college QB. He was simply the perfect blend of athleticism and talent for CPJs system.
I believe that Donnie Davis was the #1 dual threat QB in the nation when he signed.
 

Oldgoldandwhite

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If we run the pro type offense, you’d better have a dang good QB. If not, your other 21 players need to be better than the competition.
 

JacketFan137

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I'd argue this is true with almost any offensive scheme you run. Our last couple of years under CPJ were evidence of that.
i bet if you look back almost every team that plays in ny6 and high end bowl games has a qb that is good enough to get to the nfl either as an athlete (in our case justin thomas and nesbitt, nick marshall type guys) or at the qb position. if you don’t get that right it doesn’t matter what your offense is
 

RamblinRed

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A couple of thoughts.

First, GT did not go cheap on the Collins hire.
He was the highest paid FB coach GT has ever had and when he was hired his salary was in the top half of the ACC. We've gone cheap on basketball hires but not FB.
He was also given more resources and support than any previous GT FB coach.

Second, Thomas came to GT because he was going to get to play at QB where the factory schools wanted to move him away from QB.

GT is unlikely to ever consistently recruit at a Top 25 level. It has not shown that ability over the last 40 years. I think GT can recruit in the 30-40 range and then with good player development and coaching can be better than that on the field - sort of a low end Top 25 type team.
 
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