Get Old, Stay Old... What Happened??

[awbuzz]

Some good points in his write up It's getting stale to not getting to the upper half of the ACC regularly and going to the NCAA Tournament.

The Atlanta Journal Constitution: Josh Pastner's forever young Georgia Tech team may be bad again.

Josh Pastner’s forever young Georgia Tech team may be bad again

Ah, to be forever young, like Georgia Tech men’s basketball with Josh Pastner as coach.

www.ajc.com

 

[Dress2Jacket]

I think the current crop of upperclassmen was compromised by the Pastner/Bell SNAFU. Hard to get old when you have air in the recruiting pipeline for a year or two.

IMO, the question is when do we start recruiting well? I'm not talking McD's AA's, I'm talking the occasional top 20 recruit and a top 50 guy many/most years. Are our recruiting problems over now that the Pastner/Bell debacle is over, or are the recruiting problems bigger than that?

 

[MidtownJacket]

It has been pretty widely publicized that we have lacked organized and focused NIL which really hampers pulling guys in the top 50.

Word is that we are finally serious about putting together money to go get one help from the top tier recruits in basketball (which has been further behind football here since the NIL’s creation).

Fix that, then give Pastner a full cycle to work his recruiting. If it doesn’t go up from there he may need to start looking because I believe we will be as well.

 

[Root4GT]

It has been pretty widely publicized that we have lacked organized and focused NIL which really hampers pulling guys in the top 50.

Word is that we are finally serious about putting together money to go get one help from the top tier recruits in basketball (which has been further behind football here since the NIL’s creation).

Fix that, then give Pastner a full cycle to work his recruiting. If it doesn’t go up from there he may need to start looking because I believe we will be as well.

NIL has only existed the last couple of years. That does not explain CJP’s recruiting woes for the first 5 years. It’s a excuse for his failures.

 

[StingU2]

.I think the current crop of upperclassmen was compromised by the Pastner/Bell SNAFU. Hard to get old when you have air in the recruiting pipeline for a year or two.

IMO, the question is when do we start recruiting well? I'm not talking McD's AA's, I'm talking the occasional top 20 recruit and a top 50 guy many/most years. Are our recruiting problems over now that the Pastner/Bell debacle is over, or are the recruiting problems bigger than that?

That Pastner/Bell situation had NO bearing on Pastner's ability or inability to recruit, it was used by those who support Pastner as an excuse much like the lack of NIL.
We currently have one 4* signed for the HS class of 23' and two current players in Debo and Miles that were rated 4* coming out of HS, supposedly without NIL, so that begs the question why can't he do it routinely?
My personal opinion is that his Aw Shucks Richie Cunningham persona doesn't go over well on the recruiting trail and we really don't have anyone else on staff that can make up for that .

 

[YlJacket]

I think the current crop of upperclassmen was compromised by the Pastner/Bell SNAFU. Hard to get old when you have air in the recruiting pipeline for a year or two.

IMO, the question is when do we start recruiting well? I'm not talking McD's AA's, I'm talking the occasional top 20 recruit and a top 50 guy many/most years. Are our recruiting problems over now that the Pastner/Bell debacle is over, or are the recruiting problems bigger than that?

Top 20 is generally a Burger Boy

The goal of Get Old Stay Old is to have a pipeline of high 3 star, low 4 star guys in development a year or two while they wait their turn to move into the starting lineup ready to go. That target is generally top 100 to 150 (just to make Root happy ). Top 50 is nice but a bonus.

Your starting lineup AND primary playmakers should be JRs and SRs. With a Soph thrown in on occasion. Should be a flow you can see a year or two ahead with some changes and surprises on occasion

We got old and made the dance but had nothing in the near term pipeline. We are rebuilding from scratch around several soph guard/wings but are going to have to go to the portal for bigs to get old with them.

Blue Cain fits the model but we need more than one per year

 

[MidtownJacket]

NIL has only existed the last couple of years. That does not explain CJP’s recruiting woes for the first 5 years. It’s a excuse for his failures.

Money flowing under the table has been rampant in college recruiting. GT Did not engage in that pre NIL, so it was even worse. I am all about calling a spade a spade, and agree he has had some self-inflicted issues, but the reality is that since CBC, we have been playing on a slanted field, facing a stiff uphill slope.

 

[BeeRBee]

The column was much too snarky for me, but I in general don't like Cunningham's writing.

That said, I would love to see some reporting that pins down exactly why Pastner has failed to sustain his Get Old, Stay Old model. If the answer for last year was that he had to wait too long for Jose and Moses to decide, and lost potential portal transfers, well that's a failure of GO,SO. I think there was the one year where recruiting just failed (2019?) which left a hole, and maybe he's never been able to fill that gap. Or maybe the evaluation and development has not been sufficient, so that this year the two most experienced players have lost time to youngsters (or transfers), and previous projects have transferred out.

I don't know, and I guess I don't need to know, but Batt is going to have to decide at some point whether the model can work, and whether Pastner can make it work.

 

[GTrob21]

Guys, Guys, don't worry, we just need another 5-year plan. We are rushing to judgment here. Pastner needs more time to turn this around.

 

[Peacone36]

It has been pretty widely publicized that we have lacked organized and focused NIL which really hampers pulling guys in the top 50.

Word is that we are finally serious about putting together money to go get one help from the top tier recruits in basketball (which has been further behind football here since the NIL’s creation).

Fix that, then give Pastner a full cycle to work his recruiting. If it doesn’t go up from there he may need to start looking because I believe we will be as well.

Things usually begin to fall right into place in year 8

 

[awbuzz]

The first four to five minutes of the Clemson game weren't that bad. Too bad there was 35 more minutes of game to play.

With that said, our "old" players just are not good enough to give us good reliability to keep us from going 10 minutes with only one or two made field goals.

Except for the ACC Tournament run in 2021 the last several years have been disappointing. Would have thought CJP could have gotten that get old, stay old model in place a by now.

 

[1979jacket]

It has been pretty widely publicized that we have lacked organized and focused NIL which really hampers pulling guys in the top 50.

Word is that we are finally serious about putting together money to go get one help from the top tier recruits in basketball (which has been further behind football here since the NIL’s creation).

Fix that, then give Pastner a full cycle to work his recruiting. If it doesn’t go up from there he may need to start looking because I believe we will be as well.

Understood on NIL and recruiting - Granted it's hard to evaluate his coaching with no players, but I hate the offense he runs.

 

[YlJacket]

Money flowing under the table has been rampant in college recruiting. GT Did not engage in that pre NIL, so it was even worse. I am all about calling a spade a spade, and agree he has had some self-inflicted issues, but the reality is that since CBC, we have been playing on a slanted field, facing a stiff uphill slope.

FWIW NIL is not a major issue in recruiting in the 100 - 150 range. Have to have some but nothing major. That should be where we are recruiting and a legit coach should ba able to get enough support into the collective to operate at that level

 

[StingU2]

Money flowing under the table has been rampant in college recruiting. GT Did not engage in that pre NIL, so it was even worse. I am all about calling a spade a spade, and agree he has had some self-inflicted issues, but the reality is that since CBC, we have been playing on a slanted field, facing a stiff uphill slope.

What do you think was going on when McDonald's All-Americans started showing up here routinely?

 

[Steverc]

FWIW NIL is not a major issue in recruiting in the 100 - 150 range. Have to have some but nothing major. That should be where we are recruiting and a legit coach should ba able to get enough support into the collective to operate at that level

If this is the range we are recruiting, 3 - 5 ACC wins each year is our goal.

 

[MidtownJacket]

What do you think was going on when McDonald's All-Americans started showing up here routinely?

Why I said: "I am all about calling a spade a spade, and agree he has had some self-inflicted issues, but the reality is that since CBC, we have been playing on a slanted field, facing a stiff uphill slope."

Meaning, since CBC but meant CBG. Typo there was unfortunate.

 

[Jacket20]

Such a clown show!

 

[YlJacket]

If this is the range we are recruiting, 3 - 5 ACC wins each year is our goal.

It is not top of the ACC talent for sure but I don't get 3-5 win target. For instance the recruit we have for next year is Blue Cain - he is a 4 star and #97 recruit. I don't expect he comes in and scores double digits first year but he should be a solid ACC level player. Players in this range should be solid ACC players with appropriate development time and structure. Should be middle of the pack ACC team. With an upside if we strike lightning in a bottle with either a higher recruit who makes plays or we get another Moses type of development success.

FWIW I am not suggesting this is what we have done. We are taking way too many projects that haven't worked out (ie. Howard) and not anything near a consistent pipeline of players. We are worst of all worlds at the moment.

 

[Peacone36]

The Ish-Elder-McHenry (then Vasser) class was all low four, high three guys. I wanna say BJ was #100 or close to it, went on to be my favorite player I ever watched at GT. I know it’s sometimes not the X’s and O’s but the Jimmy’s and Joes but you can have the best J&Js in the country but if you run garbage offense with little to no movement and don’t make adjustments…

Tailor your offense to fit your strengths. Failure to do so signals a lack of creativity to me.


The best part about beating your head against the wall is it feels so good once you stop.

 

[Wrecked]

THere is no way a school sitting in Metro Atlanta surrounded by Top 200 talent should be shooting for 3-5 ACC wins per year. In 7 years , Pastner has absolutely failed as a recruiter and that is why GOSO is not working. We should be in on almost every top prospect in the area and at least landing one per year. Mike White is going to lock down this state while Pastner is praying for portal players to make up for his misses.