General Investing and Economics Discussion - No Politics

[bobongo]

Mom would pour 1 can of soup in a big pot and add a lot of water. She beefed it up with stale bread or stale crackers she bought from the store that sold food with expired dates. Thank God for our huge vegetable garden. Imagine buying expired food today.

There's a benefit from growing up poor. Even after she elevated from poor to middle class, my Mom never lost her sense of frugality and saving. And she had compassion for those less fortunate. She used to take old clothes to the flea market in the run down part of town and sell them for a quarter. She said she would be glad to give them away, but that if people paid something for them, even if it was just a quarter, they would have pride that they were providing for their families by their own work and not just taking a handout.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Mom would pour 1 can of soup in a big pot and add a lot of water. She beefed it up with stale bread or stale crackers she bought from the store that sold food with expired dates. Thank God for our huge vegetable garden. Imagine buying expired food today.

My grandfather was 1 of 8 kids. His Dad died early and then his mom had a nervous breakdown and they all went into a children’s/orphan’s home. He was regularly beaten. Only got through 8th grade. Got a job as a teenager on the assembly line at a cigarette plant. Borrowed money to buy 1 share of stock, because Reynolds Tobacco would match it. Nobody bought stock back then. Saved $1 a week and would then pay people back and do it again until he could save enough on his own for 1 share. Retired 35+ years later as only foreman on a line. Reynolds got bought by Nabisco for cash and he had to sell what he owned. Had a $300,000 tax bill. He also back then didn’t want to be all in on 1 investment, so he started buying Duke Power. At one point he had 50,000 shares. (!!!). 8th grade education. Even at the end they still used their 1 acre backyard as a garden where they grew most of their food (fruit trees, vegetables, etc). Their house didn’t even have a dishwasher. The Depression was many decades gone, but the memories never left him.

I think back to how people used to save money and live compared to now and it’s crazy.

 

[bobongo]

My grandfather was 1 of 8 kids. His Dad died early and then his mom had a nervous breakdown and they all went into a children’s/orphan’s home. He was regularly beaten. Only got through 8th grade. Got a job as a teenager on the assembly line at a cigarette plant. Borrowed money to buy 1 share of stock, because Reynolds Tobacco would match it. Nobody bought stock back then. Saved $1 a week and would then pay people back and do it again until he could save enough on his own for 1 share. Retired 35+ years later as only foreman on a line. Reynolds got bought by Nabisco for cash and he had to sell what he owned. Had a $300,000 tax bill. He also back then didn’t want to be all in on 1 investment, so he started buying Duke Power. At one point he had 50,000 shares. (!!!). 8th grade education. Even at the end they still used their 1 acre backyard as a garden where they grew most of their food (fruit trees, vegetables, etc). Their house didn’t even have a dishwasher. The Depression was many decades gone, but the memories never left him.

I think back to how people used to save money and live compared to now and it’s crazy.

My Mom said what this country needs is another Depression. Sounds awful, but I know what she meant by it - that folks had lost their sense of thrift.

 

[Techster]

Boeing with that bailout BOUNCE...

 

[Skeptic]

Boeing with that bailout BOUNCE...

That is because Mnuchin and his gang of inside traders in the Senate slipped in $17 billion as a "vital defense" provision in the stimulus bill even though Boeing was already troubled because its civilian airplanes keep crashing. The grifting has started and the lines runs out the door. Wonder how many senators bought stock in Boeing late last week?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

That is because Mnuchin and his gang of inside traders in the Senate slipped in $17 billion as a "vital defense" provision in the stimulus bill even though Boeing was already troubled because its civilian airplanes keep crashing. The grifting has started and the lines runs out the door. Wonder how many senators bought stock in Boeing late last week?

The pigs are lining up at the trough for sure.

 

[Techster]

That is because Mnuchin and his gang of inside traders in the Senate slipped in $17 billion as a "vital defense" provision in the stimulus bill even though Boeing was already troubled because its civilian airplanes keep crashing. The grifting has started and the lines runs out the door. Wonder how many senators bought stock in Boeing late last week?

If you REALLY want to get mad...



Also, "vital defense" seem like a LOT of latitude for our decision makers to waste our money.

 

[bobongo]

That is because Mnuchin and his gang of inside traders in the Senate slipped in $17 billion as a "vital defense" provision in the stimulus bill even though Boeing was already troubled because its civilian airplanes keep crashing. The grifting has started and the lines runs out the door. Wonder how many senators bought stock in Boeing late last week?

They'll just say, "Oh, my 'third party advisor' bought that. I had no idea..."

 

[Deleted member 2897]

If you REALLY want to get mad...



Also, "vital defense" seem like a LOT of latitude for our decision makers to waste our money.

We also have bankruptcy laws too, for a reason. They can keep operating and restructure.

This will be just like the other stimulus bills where the government picks and chooses who wins and loses, there are sweetheart deals, and back room handshakes and ownership conflicts. Sad really.

 

[bobongo]

If you REALLY want to get mad...



Also, "vital defense" seem like a LOT of latitude for our decision makers to waste our money.

It's blackmail, like for instance the claim that a bank is "too big to fail". If it's too big to fail, then it's too big and it needs to be broken up.

If Boeing hadn't been so careless with the 737, they wouldn't be in this mess. It's their good luck that coronavirus came along to bail them out.

 

[LibertyTurns]

RINOs destroyed the Republican Party with their corporate welfare crap. If they wanted Socialism they should have lined up with the Liberals. This is BS.

 

[LibertyTurns]

Ok, I can understand an investor buying Boeing at $90/share. You read about the super mega hugely bailout gift and you think maybe they claw back some and are willing to buy at $120/share and wait for it to recover in time. Who thinks this is a $165/share company? Whoever it is happens to be buying in force now. If it’s you please explain your mindset. You’ve got jacked up electrical wiring in your wings, you have not fixed the systems issues you got that crashed a bunch of aircraft, other problems have emerged with your aircraft, worldwide aircraft demand will be reduced until this crisis is over, etc. You think the company is getting free money?

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Ok, I can understand an investor buying Boeing at $90/share. You read about the super mega hugely bailout gift and you think maybe they claw back some and are willing to buy at $120/share and wait for it to recover in time. Who thinks this is a $165/share company? Whoever it is happens to be buying in force now. If it’s you please explain your mindset. You’ve got jacked up electrical wiring in your wings, you have not fixed the systems issues you got that crashed a bunch of aircraft, other problems have emerged with your aircraft, worldwide aircraft demand will be reduced until this crisis is over, etc. You think the company is getting free money?

The whole stock market has been crazy. It dropped 30%, largely over the unknown of are we heading into a recession, how bad might it be...at the time, nobody knew or guessed it would be this bad. It was all speculation. Then we went up 2000 points one day and the headline was "Dow surges 2,000 points after Trump announces global pandemic". Now we're getting all kinds of estimates of what the damage to our economy is - the Fed is predicting 30% unemployment and -25%+ GDP, and now the stock market is up 15% in 2 days.

The backwardsness of it is getting to the point that I'm wondering if we're printing trillions of dollars and buying equities with it. Mortgage rates have actually been going up because of the rush to cash and the banks not having enough of it. So its totally backwards to me that with nobody having enough cash people are actually buying equities right now like this.

 

[Techster]

Something to keep an eye on. I've been observing the VIX, and something interesting is occuring. The VIX usually reacts in the opposite direction of the overall market. If you've paying attention the past couple of days, even though we've had a pretty big bounce in the positive direction, the VIX is hovering around even the last couple of days. It's telling me the market is capitalizing off "good news", but overall is expectation of more pain coming.

You guys know my thoughts on TVIX. I exited at a nice level, but the current price makes me nervous as it's not reacting to usual expectations. I am gladly on the TVIX sidelines right now.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

Something to keep an eye on. I've been observing the VIX, and something interesting is occuring. The VIX usually reacts in the opposite direction of the overall market. If you've paying attention the past couple of days, even though we've had a pretty big bounce in the positive direction, the VIX is hovering around even the last couple of days. It's telling me the market is capitalizing off "good news", but overall is expectation of more pain coming.

You guys know my thoughts on TVIX. I exited at a nice level, but the current price makes me nervous as it's not reacting to usual expectations. I am gladly on the TVIX sidelines right now.

Thank you for continuing to share your thoughts. I don't have the cajones and trading interest in these things like you do, but I read what you write and the commentary is always interesting.

 

[LibertyTurns]

@Techster I’m a proponent of coming up with a system, mastering it, then having the discipline and patience to follow it. Your TVIX system is interesting. I think I’m too ingrained to switch. Combination of good results and I’m too old to learn new tricks but I do enjoy picking at the analysis of what others do. I’m not adverse to adding another wicket in my system to drive action or inaction. Usually I test drive changes for a year or two before I alter my system to make sure it yields better results than what I already had.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I’ll add I don’t think there’s any system for this except swing trading. Bought about $50k in more solid stocks ie Pepsi yesterday morning and just sold a few minutes ago. 14% swing. Crazy.

I’m supposed to be working.

 

[Techster]

@Techster I’m a proponent of coming up with a system, mastering it, then having the discipline and patience to follow it. Your TVIX system is interesting. I think I’m too ingrained to switch. Combination of good results and I’m too old to learn new tricks but I do enjoy picking at the analysis of what others do. I’m not adverse to adding another wicket in my system to drive action or inaction. Usually I test drive changes for a year or two before I alter my system to make sure it yields better results than what I already had.

I'm in the "go with what you know" school of investing. Despite my posts on TVIX, it's only part of the high risk/high reward slice of my portfolio which represents 5% of my overall securities investments. I actually found out about the inverse relationship between TQQQ and TVIX not too long ago, and combined with the use of API's, I found a decent strategy for upside/downside returns. Of course, I wouldn't touch it without use of APIs. TQQQ and TVIX have BOTH been positive the last two days...and that makes me NERVOUS.

For my "retirement" growth portion of my portfolio, I tend to stick with proven winners and Vanguard funds. I'm risk neutral when it comes to long term growth of my nest egg.

I'm actually more interested in real world businesses because of cash flow. IMO, cash is king, and I've been lucky enough to get involved in several businesses that have returned a healthy stream of cash flow every month.

 

[Techster]

One of my favorite positions since I've been able to invest:

 

[BuzzStone]

What are some ideas for an investor learning during the beginning of a recession? I am trying to read up on how to handle my investments in the current climate. I am not well versed at all but want to make sure I put my investments in the correct locations.

I am thinking of purchasing physical property with my non retirement funds later this year as a separate long term investment.