Ga Southern

[L41k18]

Yeah, I thought it was a strange move at the time. But then I recalled the stats that Nuke posted in post #3: Georgia Southern AVE 0.185, SLG 0.272, OBP 0.325. I guess they decided they needed to try to get runs any way they could get them...

Yikes. Those #s are awful lol.
Yes I agree that had to be their thinking.

 

[L41k18]

Here's my problem with the concept of the "sac" bunt. It's only a sac if it doesn't work out and an out is made with runners advancing. So the player is trying to bunt successfully in all cases I would think. I haven't seen a player just stand at home plate waiting to be tagged. (Like Schrödinger's cat we only know after the fact what it was, until it happens it could be either.)

If it does work out, it's scored a successful bunt or in field hit isn't it? I don't think that successful bunts are scored as sacs, but then again it's scoring.

A bunt with clear intention to advance the runner(s) that moves the runner(s) over while the hitter is thrown out at first, is scored as a sacrifice bunt. The hitter is not charged with an at bat.

 

[FredJacket]

A bunt with clear intention to advance the runner(s) that moves the runner(s) over while the hitter is thrown out at first, is scored as a sacrifice bunt. The hitter is not charged with an at bat.

I don't think intention matters. If runner(s) advance & batter/bunter (only) is out, it's a sac bunt.

 

[JacketOff]

I don't like Hall's record in getting to and performing in post-season. over the last 15 years relative to the ranked talent we have coming in. Sure he knows what he is doing more than me or others but he doesn't get the results for the talent.

Sure he's the winningest coach around since he is one of the longest serving and we have such a talent differential that even a local yokel could do well on winning percentage against weak teams. Not in post season where the best teams play.

Mike Martin never won the CWS.

Bobby Cox is the 4th most winningest manager in MLB history and has 1 WS title.

Dusty Baker is the 7th most winningest manager and has 1 WS title

Dave Roberts currently has the 3rd best winning % of ALL TIME with 1 WS title, in Covid shortened regular season.

Larry Hays has the 10th most college baseball wins and never even made it out of a regional.

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck. CDH has absolutely had teams good enough to make deep runs in the postseason, but so have tons of other coaches. There’s never been a time since CDH has been on campus that it felt like Tech making the postseason was a long shot. Just about every single year we’re in contention for the NCAAs and the ACC. That’s what a good manager does.

Don’t forget Clemson still hasn’t made it out of a regional since firing Leggett. And missed the NCAAs completely twice under Monte Lee in 7 seasons. Something Leggett didn’t do across 22 seasons. It’s not always greener.

 

[gtbeak]

I don't think intention matters. If runner(s) advance & batter/bunter (only) is out, it's a sac bunt.

Intent does matter, but since the scorer can't read the hitters mind they usually score it a SAC in the scenario you describe. However, if the bunt is a clear attempt for a hit (I'm envisioning a Brett Butler style drag bunt here), the scorer should score it the same way they would a ground ball to 2nd that advances the runners. IOW, an AB should be charged.

 

[LargeFO]

Mike Martin never won the CWS.

Bobby Cox is the 4th most winningest manager in MLB history and has 1 WS title.

Dusty Baker is the 7th most winningest manager and has 1 WS title

Dave Roberts currently has the 3rd best winning % of ALL TIME with 1 WS title, in Covid shortened regular season.

Larry Hays has the 10th most college baseball wins and never even made it out of a regional.

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck. CDH has absolutely had teams good enough to make deep runs in the postseason, but so have tons of other coaches. There’s never been a time since CDH has been on campus that it felt like Tech making the postseason was a long shot. Just about every single year we’re in contention for the NCAAs and the ACC. That’s what a good manager does.

Don’t forget Clemson still hasn’t made it out of a regional since firing Leggett. And missed the NCAAs completely twice under Monte Lee in 7 seasons. Something Leggett didn’t do across 22 seasons. It’s not always greener.

You can absolutely judge partly on postseason results. If you aren't allowed to, why are we even playing the postseasons? lol

 

[FredJacket]

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck. CDH has absolutely had teams good enough to make deep runs in the postseason, but so have tons of other coaches. There’s never been a time since CDH has been on campus that it felt like Tech making the postseason was a long shot. Just about every single year we’re in contention for the NCAAs and the ACC. That’s what a good manager does.

Don’t forget Clemson still hasn’t made it out of a regional since firing Leggett. And missed the NCAAs completely twice under Monte Lee in 7 seasons. Something Leggett didn’t do across 22 seasons. It’s not always greener.

This is where the argument over CDH's legacy reaches a standoff among posters here. You & I appear to be in agreement on how difficult (random/lucky) the college post-season format is. AND a case study should be done on how Ga Tech suffers the most from its proximity to SEC baseball.

IOW GA Tech's path to Omaha has consistently been very difficult (relative to say... UVA or UNC or NC State)... no matter if they host or get sent to Vandy or Tenneessee. Unfortunately... even the CWS worthy teams haven't managed to power through.

BTW... thanks for the behind the curtain summary (earlier post). I appreciate it... made for a needed adjustment to my assumptions.

 

[Techcaster572]

My thoughts on last night's game

I love that Logan came back out after a challenging and high pitch count 1st inning and looked like the Logan we all expected for the next 3 innings. Make no mistake that those 3-shutdown innings kept us in the game.

M. Ellis goes 0-5 and we put up 7 runs for the first road game. Offense is diverse and deep. So is our depth.
Love the speed of this team. I was okay with the bunt being left on as Ga Southern is very good at turning DP's and we've hit into 5 of them through 4 games. The base hit by Burress to score 2 and cut the lead to 4-3 was huge imo. Unfortunately, the inning ended on a double play by Ellis.

Beccheti and Yunger are doing everything they can to move to the top of the lineup. Ellis and Green will both be fine and back on track again soon.

I love the fight of the offense to battle back after a tough start. They could've mailed it in but they gutted out that victory.

Cam Jones is just flat out a baseball player! The way he closed out the game was just AWESOME! Kid has attitude. I love it.

The team chemistry just seems different than last year. Not certain why but I'm not sure last years mix wins that game last night.

I understand Ga Southern lost its opening series at home to Maryland but they are the most recent Georgia team regional host, so I consider that a very good quality win. May end up being a quad 1 win by year's end.

I think we are starting to see that we may have very good options for our starting rotation.
Busse, Hill, Finateri , Maguire, and Patel.

If Busse returns as closer, we have some outstanding bullpen options. If Busse returns to closer role, I would bet Tate Mckee steps into rotation.

Obviously, we have a very low RPI opponent coming in this weekend in Cornell so it's important to take care of business than in comes our cross-town rivals in Ga State.

After that, its time for the gaggers and the schedule picks up.

4 games in I'm very pleased!

GO Jackets!
Joltin J's
#3rdBaseCrew

Hope to see you guys on Saturday or Sunday

 

[stinger78]

I was just trying to play with the "I hate bunting" crowd. We loved it when Simspon bunted then stole second, we either love it or are ok with it when it works, it's only when we produce an out with no runs that we really hate it.

This. Well played, GT33.

 

[stinger78]

Mike Martin never won the CWS.

Bobby Cox is the 4th most winningest manager in MLB history and has 1 WS title.

Dusty Baker is the 7th most winningest manager and has 1 WS title

Dave Roberts currently has the 3rd best winning % of ALL TIME with 1 WS title, in Covid shortened regular season.

Larry Hays has the 10th most college baseball wins and never even made it out of a regional.

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck. CDH has absolutely had teams good enough to make deep runs in the postseason, but so have tons of other coaches. There’s never been a time since CDH has been on campus that it felt like Tech making the postseason was a long shot. Just about every single year we’re in contention for the NCAAs and the ACC. That’s what a good manager does.

Don’t forget Clemson still hasn’t made it out of a regional since firing Leggett. And missed the NCAAs completely twice under Monte Lee in 7 seasons. Something Leggett didn’t do across 22 seasons. It’s not always greener.

All true. However, the manner in which a team loses and the consistency by which that is done do speak to the manager. CDH is a legendary manager, and he’s won a lot of games, but his teams have consistently underperformed at key times the past 15 years or so. That is particularly true at P. We could surely do worse, but we might do better. No way the man should be fired, but he will retire in the not too distant future. We will then know.

 

[4shotB]

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck.

I am not a baseball fan but the topic of "luck" in any sports is fascinating to me. After a quick Google, the fact that there is a coach who has won 10 MNC's and another who has 5 (at two different schools no less) suggests that "luck" appears to be within one's control a bit.

 

[gtbeak]

I am not a baseball fan but the topic of "luck" in any sports is fascinating to me. After a quick Google, the fact that there is a coach who has won 10 MNC's and another who has 5 (at two different schools no less) suggests that "luck" appears to be within one's control a bit.

Certainly winning a championship is not pure luck or purely random. For instance, if you take the Braves roster and put them in the ACC or SEC, I would be surprised if they lost even 1 game, and would give them a very high probability of winning in Omaha. Assuming your coaches are Rod Dedeaux and Augie Garrido (Skip Bertman also won 5 championships), most of their championships were 30 or more years ago. College baseball started their current format of regional/super regional/CWS in 1999, or 25 years ago. Each layer of "playoffs" adds more randomness to the equation. I do agree with those who say that Hall's teams have underperformed what I would have expected, especially in the decade of the 2000s. Forget Omaha, we haven't even made a super since I think 2006. That's some really rotten luck, to the point that I would say it's not just bad luck. But as FredJacket pointed out, we have had more than our fair share of tough draws in the regionals due to our geographic location.

 

[LargeFO]

Certainly winning a championship is not pure luck or purely random. For instance, if you take the Braves roster and put them in the ACC or SEC, I would be surprised if they lost even 1 game, and would give them a very high probability of winning in Omaha. Assuming your coaches are Rod Dedeaux and Augie Garrido (Skip Bertman also won 5 championships), most of their championships were 30 or more years ago. College baseball started their current format of regional/super regional/CWS in 1999, or 25 years ago. Each layer of "playoffs" adds more randomness to the equation. I do agree with those who say that Hall's teams have underperformed what I would have expected, especially in the decade of the 2000s. Forget Omaha, we haven't even made a super since I think 2006. That's some really rotten luck, to the point that I would say it's not just bad luck. But as FredJacket pointed out, we have had more than our fair share of tough draws in the regionals due to our geographic location.

The luck thing is a copout when we're talking about 12-15 years of sample size. You wanna include that for a year, maybe two, fine, but over a decade+? Nah.

 

[TampaBuzz]

The luck thing is a copout when we're talking about 12-15 years of sample size. You wanna include that for a year, maybe two, fine, but over a decade+? Nah.

I agree with this. A deep and diverse pitching staff makes all the difference in the tournament and in most of the past years our pitching staff has been very thin with one or two solid starters and maybe one or two good relievers. That won't cut it when you may have to play five (5) games in 3 or 4 days.

 

[billga99]

I don't like Hall's record in getting to and performing in post-season. over the last 15 years relative to the ranked talent we have coming in. Sure he knows what he is doing more than me or others but he doesn't get the results for the talent.

Sure he's the winningest coach around since he is one of the longest serving and we have such a talent differential that even a local yokel could do well on winning percentage against weak teams. Not in post season where the best teams play.

But you get a talent differential through recruiting. Players have to trust the program and the ability to get to the next level. I don't take that lightly since that has certainly heard us in football and basketball.

 

[Squints]

How are we still having the bunting conversation in 2024?

Reject tradition. Embrace modernity boys.

 

[YoungSting]

How are we still having the bunting conversation in 2024?

Reject tradition. Embrace modernity boys.

Ehh there’s always going to be room for bunting (a very small room). Im with you on modernity, but modernity is OBP, and getting on base does not discriminate in how you do it. In college ball, we are not going to have 9 guys starting that can mash every pitcher. But if you have bat control and speed, bunting should be in your arsenal.

However, I will put myself back on the fence by saying one of the reasons binging doesn’t work is because it’s just not practiced enough. But it’s hard to argue for more practice time for bunting when it’s realistically such a small part.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

Mike Martin never won the CWS.

Bobby Cox is the 4th most winningest manager in MLB history and has 1 WS title.

Dusty Baker is the 7th most winningest manager and has 1 WS title

Dave Roberts currently has the 3rd best winning % of ALL TIME with 1 WS title, in Covid shortened regular season.

Larry Hays has the 10th most college baseball wins and never even made it out of a regional.

Judging a baseball manager/coach based on postseason success is silly. Especially in the college baseball format. It literally comes down to luck. CDH has absolutely had teams good enough to make deep runs in the postseason, but so have tons of other coaches. There’s never been a time since CDH has been on campus that it felt like Tech making the postseason was a long shot. Just about every single year we’re in contention for the NCAAs and the ACC. That’s what a good manager does.

Don’t forget Clemson still hasn’t made it out of a regional since firing Leggett. And missed the NCAAs completely twice under Monte Lee in 7 seasons. Something Leggett didn’t do across 22 seasons. It’s not always greener.

No problem with your points but I wasn't thinking or talking about winning the CWS, just advancing out of regionals (top 16) or even more regularly making the NCAAs (~top 45). Winning the CWS or WS takes being very good and somewhat lucky.

In the last 15 years (not counting 2020 COVID year) here's how we've done in post season:

• Haven't made NCAAs 4 times (27%). We had the talent last year overall to go, just not the pitching. Other 3 years I'd contend we should have been able to go.
• Lost in someone else's regional 7 times (47%), here's where @FredJacket point is valid that we get tough regional matchups in the SouthEast. But when you aren't in the top 16 teams, you should expect to be a distinct underdog and #2 seed only advances like maybe 25% of the time.
• Lost in our own regional 4 times (27%). We were distinct favorite and should have won. No excuses here about luck I hope.

 

[GTNavyNuke]

How are we still having the bunting conversation in 2024?

Reject tradition. Embrace modernity boys.

Welcome back! Nothing has changed from last year

You have your right to your MLB centric opinion, in college the best teams use the bunt for a wide variety of reasons we went through as nauseum last year. I just wish we had a Chandler Simpson since he made the case weekly on bunting for hits.

 

[L41k18]

Welcome back! Nothing has changed from last year

You have your right to your MLB centric opinion, in college the best teams use the bunt for a wide variety of reasons we went through as nauseum last year. I just wish we had a Chandler Simpson since he made the case weekly on bunting for hits.

Bunting for hits is a completely different animal from sacrifice bunts.