G5 and FEI

[Techster]

He was only offensive coordinator for CMU in 2021. He was just QB coach prior to that. Their OFEI numbers might not look great for 2021 but they were 24th in yards per game and 34th in points.

This year App State was 25th in yards/game and 24th in points. I would imagine CMU’s weaker schedule plays a decent factor in why they are rated so low in OFEI. You’ve gotta put up ungodly numbers in those mid-to-low tier G5 conferences to get any love from the metrics.

Well, that makes me even more hesitant for Barbay. In his one season for CMU, it was the worst offensive showing (OFEI) in those 3 seasons. The reason OFEI is used instead of yards and points is because OFEI takes strength of schedule into consideration and you're not just fattening up the stats against weaker opponents. Take a look at teams like Coastal Carolina, Tulane, Western Kentucky, UTSA, GA Southern...all schools in weaker conferences but OFEIs are high because their offenses are just good and perform at a high level.

 

[JacketOff]

Well, that makes me even more hesitant for Barbay. In his one season for CMU, it was the worst offensive showing (OFEI) in those 3 seasons. The reason OFEI is used instead of yards and points is because OFEI takes strength of schedule into consideration and you're not just fattening up the stats against weaker opponents. Take a look at teams like Coastal Carolina, Tulane, Western Kentucky, UTSA, GA Southern...all schools in weaker conferences but OFEIs are high because their offenses are just good and perform at a high level.

Which is why I said, “You gotta put up ungodly numbers in the mid-to-low tier G5 conferences to get any love from the metrics.”

In 2021 WKU was 2nd in the country in PPG, CCU 5th, SMU 10th, UTSA 11th. This year Georgia Southern was 30th in PPG and 19th in yards/game. Basically equivalent to what CMU did in 2021. How can you praise Southern for putting up those numbers and diss on CMU? How about the fact that CMU went from 88th in OFEI in 2021 with Barbay, to 110th in 2022 without him. Worse than any year they had when Barbay was on staff. Seems like he was pretty influential in their offense being as good as it was relative to G5 standards. They also went from 24th in yards/game to 87th, and from 34th in PPG to 89th without Barbay. Their QB who was a senior this year went from a 60% passer with 2600 yards and 24 TDs in 2021 to a 55% passer with 1900 yards and 15 TDs. It’s obvious Barbay was doing something right up there. It’s not like Central Michigan is known for being world beaters.

 

[Techster]

Which is why I said, “You gotta put up ungodly numbers in the mid-to-low tier G5 conferences to get any love from the metrics.”

In 2021 WKU was 2nd in the country in PPG, CCU 5th, SMU 10th, UTSA 11th. This year Georgia Southern was 30th in PPG and 19th in yards/game. Basically equivalent to what CMU did in 2021. How can you praise Southern for putting up those numbers and diss on CMU? How about the fact that CMU went from 88th in OFEI in 2021 with Barbay, to 110th in 2022 without him. Worse than any year they had when Barbay was on staff. Seems like he was pretty influential in their offense being as good as it was relative to G5 standards. They also went from 24th in yards/game to 87th, and from 34th in PPG to 89th without Barbay. Their QB who was a senior this year went from a 60% passer with 2600 yards and 24 TDs in 2021 to a 55% passer with 1900 yards and 15 TDs. It’s obvious Barbay was doing something right up there. It’s not like Central Michigan is known for being world beaters.

All of the schools you pointed out have high OFEIs. OFEI is about efficiency and what you do against teams relative to strength of schedule. That's why, IMO, it's a more fair metric compared to yards and points per game. You can put up tons of points and yardage against smaller or weaker competition and not get penalized for it like you would under OFEI metrics.

Look at what APP State has done in OFEI under their HFC Shawn Clark before Barbay went there:

2021: 53
2020: 39
2019*: 45
2018*: 64
*Shawn Clark was OC

So even before Barbay got there App State was already doing relatively well to good. Is App State's decent improvement in 2022 a product of HFC who was an OC that already had a decent to good offense or because of Barbay? Even in Barbay's lone season as CMU's OC, CMU's offense was better before Barbay became OC.

Sorry, but everything you pointed out and the data available on Barbay doesn't get me excited about the prospect of hiring him.

 

[JacketOff]

All of the schools you pointed out have high OFEIs. OFEI is about efficiency and what you do against teams relative to strength of schedule. That's why, IMO, it's a more fair metric compared to yards and points per game. You can put up tons of points and yardage against smaller or weaker competition and not get penalized for it like you would under OFEI metrics.

Look at what APP State has done in OFEI under their HFC Shawn Clark before Barbay went there:

2021: 53
2020: 39
2019*: 45
2018*: 64
*Shawn Clark was OC

So even before Barbay got there App State was already doing relatively well to good. Is App State's decent improvement in 2022 a product of HFC who was an OC that already had a decent to good offense or because of Barbay? Even in Barbay's lone season as CMU's OC, CMU's offense was better before Barbay became OC.

Sorry, but everything you pointed out and the data available on Barbay doesn't get me excited about the prospect of hiring him.

I understand how OFEI works, dog. That’s why I keep saying, “You have to put up ungodly numbers in the mid-to-low tier G5 conferences to get respect in the metrics.” Their relative weak schedule skews the data. I get it. OFEI is very useful when comparing teams who have played similar schedules, and also when comparing coaches from the same team across different seasons. It’s not super useful when looking at any average G5 team though, because the data gets skewed based on scheduling. It does make it very easy to see extremely effective G5 offenses and defenses, but outside of that everyone else just gets kind of lost in the numbers. CMU had a massive drop off in OFEI when Barbay left, and App State had a significant gain when Barbay arrived. Those are really the only 2 OFEI data points that are super useful when talking about MAC teams. If you don’t think Barbay is a great candidate, fine. But there are plenty of numbers and data that support him as being a good OC.

 

[Techster]

I understand how OFEI works, dog. That’s why I keep saying, “You have to put up ungodly numbers in the mid-to-low tier G5 conferences to get respect in the metrics.” Their relative weak schedule skews the data. I get it. OFEI is very useful when comparing teams who have played similar schedules, and also when comparing coaches from the same team across different seasons. It’s not super useful when looking at any average G5 team though, because the data gets skewed based on scheduling. It does make it very easy to see extremely effective G5 offenses and defenses, but outside of that everyone else just gets kind of lost in the numbers. CMU had a massive drop off in OFEI when Barbay left, and App State had a significant gain when Barbay arrived. you don’t think Barbay is a great candidate, fine. But there are plenty of numbers and data that support him as being a good OC.

You obviously do NOT know how OFEI works...dog. It's clearly obvious you do not when you're trying to say CMU get penalized for being in G5...yet so is Tulane, WKU, UTSA, GA Southern, etc.

CMU had a massive drop? Barbay's OFEI was 88 his one lone year, when he left it was 110. That's like saying his one season as CMU OC was the tallest midget. It's convenient you left out that CMU's offense was better BEFORE Barbay was the OC. By your definition of "significant" and "massive"...can we say Barbay's one season as CMU OC was a "massive" or "significant" dropoff for CMU's previous offenses?!

How did Barbay really improve App State's offense "significantly"? App State had an offensive with an OFEI of 39 in 2020, and 53 in 2021. Barbay's first season at App State their OFEI was 36. Is that much different than what was their previously? There was already a history of success. Barbay most definitely did NOT "significantly" improve App State's offense from what has been previously been there.

Dave Patenaude had a better OC track record at Temple and Coastal Carolina before he came to GT.

Barbay's two years of being an OC at different schools and not a decent history of success is a LOT for Key to risk on his first OC hire. I hope he has better candidates in mind.

 

[JacketOff]

You obviously do NOT know how OFEI works...dog. It's clearly obvious you do not when you're trying to say CMU get penalized for being in G5...yet so is Tulane, WKU, UTSA, GA Southern, etc.

CMU had a massive drop? Barbay's OFEI was 88 his one lone year, when he left it was 110. That's like saying his one season as CMU OC was the tallest midget. It's convenient you left out that CMU's offense was better BEFORE Barbay was the OC. By your definition of "significant" and "massive"...can we say Barbay's one season as CMU OC was a "massive" or "significant" dropoff for CMU's previous offenses?!

How did Barbay really improve App State's offense "significantly"? App State had an offensive with an OFEI of 39 in 2020, and 53 in 2021. Barbay's first season at App State their OFEI was 36. Is that much different than what was their previously? There was already a history of success. Barbay most definitely did NOT "significantly" improve App State's offense from what has been previously been there.

Dave Patenaude had a better OC track record at Temple and Coastal Carolina before he came to GT.

Barbay's two years of being an OC at different schools and not a decent history of success is a LOT for Key to risk on his first OC hire. I hope he has better candidates in mind.

Lol. Why are you so defensive? Do you even understand what I’m saying. WKU, UTSA, and CCU had elite offenses. Top 5, top 10 offenses in all of college football in PPG and yards per game. Yet they finished 9th, 24th, and 17th in OFEI in 2021 respectively. Their elite offenses numbers took a hit in the OFEI formula because of their weak schedule. I really don’t get why it’s so hard for you to comprehend that. I also love how you act like CMU’s drop off in 2021 when Barbay took over as OC is a huge deal, when they dropped 15 places from their last full season in 2019 to 2021. Don’t even come back with “well it was even better than that in 2020.” Yeah, they played 6 games. That’s not even a fair comparison. Yet when they dropped 23 places from 2021 to 2022 it’s a “tallest midget” scenario lmao. Also act like App State’s 17 place improvement from 2021 without Barbay to 2022 with him is not a big deal. So which is it? Barbay dropping CMU’s OFEI by 15 places is a big deal to you, but improving App State’s by 17 isn’t a big deal?

Dave Patenaude did not have a better track record at Temple before we hired him lmao. Now you’re just making stuff up. If you want to act like OFEI is the God of comparisons, Temple had an OFEI of 69 in 2018 and 99 in 2017.

You’re being obtuse. Agree to disagree. Peace

 

[Techster]

Lol. Why are you so defensive? Do you even understand what I’m saying. WKU, UTSA, and CCU had elite offenses. Top 5, top 10 offenses in all of college football in PPG and yards per game. Yet they finished 9th, 24th, and 17th in OFEI in 2021 respectively. Their elite offenses numbers took a hit in the OFEI formula because of their weak schedule. I really don’t get why it’s so hard for you to comprehend that. I also love how you act like CMU’s drop off in 2021 when Barbay took over as OC is a huge deal, when they dropped 15 places from their last full season in 2019 to 2021. Don’t even come back with “well it was even better than that in 2020.” Yeah, they played 6 games. That’s not even a fair comparison. Yet when they dropped 23 places from 2021 to 2022 it’s a “tallest midget” scenario lmao. Also act like App State’s 17 place improvement from 2021 without Barbay to 2022 with him is not a big deal. So which is it? Barbay dropping CMU’s OFEI by 15 places is a big deal to you, but improving App State’s by 17 isn’t a big deal?

Dave Patenaude did not have a better track record at Temple before we hired him lmao. Now you’re just making stuff up. If you want to act like OFEI is the God of comparisons, Temple had an OFEI of 69 in 2018 and 99 in 2017.

You’re being obtuse. Agree to disagree. Peace

You are literally making my point about OFEI versus pure statistics with that bolded part. It's pretty easy to comprehend, but it's obviously hard for you because either way you splice it, those teams you named STILL had elite offenses in terms of OFEI.

Thank you for proving my point. Peace.

 

[forensicbuzz]

You are literally making my point about OFEI versus pure statistics with that bolded part. It's pretty easy to comprehend, but it's obviously hard for you because either way you splice it, those teams you named STILL had elite offenses in terms of OFEI.

Thank you for proving my point. Peace.

Are they playing against the same caliber of defensive players our team will be? No. Is there enough difference in our offensive players and their offensive players to overcome the difference between their competition's defensive players and our competition's defensive players? Success at these G5 and FCS schools doesn't mean their systems would be successful here. Not saying they wouldn't, but these OFEI and DFEI stats are based on their competition too.