Freshmen QBs

[MWBATL]

I notice that around the country a number of freshmen have won starting QB and have impacted their teams seasons as a result. Perkins at UVa is an excellent example, but there are a few others as well. I am not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens....everywhere except GT.

Even when we seem to have a quality athlete at QB like JeT we don't seem to start them until their junior season.

Is this a "hidden" downside to our offense? Is it so complicated that when we do get a quality QB that we need to spend 2 years training them in its intricacies before they see the field?

Or, have we just been unsuccessful in getting a QB that has the skills of a kid like Perkins?

I will admit, it does make me wonder whether a simpler offense that would allow a Perkins type kid (Jet, maybe Graham?) to start early and use their athleticism has some appeal for me. Even with acknowledging that CPJ's offense has been a good thing for GT and allowed us to over-achieve compared to pure recruiting rankings...

 

[GTfan4Life]

I notice that around the country a number of freshmen have won starting QB and have impacted their teams seasons as a result. Perkins at UVa is an excellent example, but there are a few others as well. I am not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens....everywhere except GT.

Even when we seem to have a quality athlete at QB like JeT we don't seem to start them until their junior season.

Is this a "hidden" downside to our offense? Is it so complicated that when we do get a quality QB that we need to spend 2 years training them in its intricacies before they see the field?

Or, have we just been unsuccessful in getting a QB that has the skills of a kid like Perkins?

I will admit, it does make me wonder whether a simpler offense that would allow a Perkins type kid (Jet, maybe Graham?) to start early and use their athleticism has some appeal for me. Even with acknowledging that CPJ's offense has been a good thing for GT and allowed us to over-achieve compared to pure recruiting rankings...

Perkins is a JuCo transfer.

 

[OldJacketFan]

I notice that around the country a number of freshmen have won starting QB and have impacted their teams seasons as a result. Perkins at UVa is an excellent example, but there are a few others as well. I am not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens....everywhere except GT.

Even when we seem to have a quality athlete at QB like JeT we don't seem to start them until their junior season.

Is this a "hidden" downside to our offense? Is it so complicated that when we do get a quality QB that we need to spend 2 years training them in its intricacies before they see the field?

Or, have we just been unsuccessful in getting a QB that has the skills of a kid like Perkins?

I will admit, it does make me wonder whether a simpler offense that would allow a Perkins type kid (Jet, maybe Graham?) to start early and use their athleticism has some appeal for me. Even with acknowledging that CPJ's offense has been a good thing for GT and allowed us to over-achieve compared to pure recruiting rankings...

Perkins is a Junior. The learning curve on PJ's offense is steep. Most HS QB do not play under center, learning the footwork, B back mesh, option reads and pitches all have to be learned and mastered. Take a look in slow motion at the 1st option, the dive/keep read and how fast the QB has to make that read and you start to see how hard it is to master

 

[Coloradojacket]

Quan was essentially a Freshman, He was not going to take over from JT5. In 2010 when Washington came in he was a Freshman. Heck, Nesbitt has had played I about 3 games before he took over. So to answer your Theory, no, CPJ tries to pick the guy he thinks can win. I think that Tobias has been a surprise to every one including CPJ.

 

[MWBATL]

Perkins is a JuCo transfer.

Thanks for the correction.....

...but I am still curious....Trevor Lawrence, Jake Fromm, Tua (last year) , Kyle Kempt (Iowa State) to name a few who *are* freshmen and making impacts....there's a bunch more if you go back a few years....

 

[MWBATL]

Perkins is a Junior. The learning curve on PJ's offense is steep. Most HS QB do not play under center, learning the footwork, B back mesh, option reads and pitches all have to be learned and mastered. Take a look in slow motion at the 1st option, the dive/keep read and how fast the QB has to make that read and you start to see how hard it is to master

I agree with what you are saying. I have studied the mesh and the speed with which the QB has to make that read, and the ways the defense tries to disguise what they are doing to throw off that read. It *IS* complicated to perfect at game speed, no doubt about it!

I guess what I am asking is....is it worth it to play this style offense (which undoubtedly has its benefits for a school/team like GT) vs a simpler offense that might allow a talented freshman to play earlier?

It may be an impossible question to answer...but it does strike me as a hidden penalty for this offense. And I count myself as one who does NOT favor going to a pro set or something like that, just so we can raise our recruiting ranking from #50 to #44, and go 7-5 year after year.

 

[OldJacketFan]

Thanks for the correction.....

...but I am still curious....Trevor Lawrence, Jake Fromm, Tua (last year) , Kyle Kempt (Iowa State) to name a few who *are* freshmen and making impacts....there's a bunch more if you go back a few years....

They all are playing in the same offense they played in as HS QBs, more options on the route tree but still the same thing they've been doing since middle school

 

[UgaBlows]

I am glad Perkins is a junior!

 

[OldJacketFan]

I agree with what you are saying. I have studied the mesh and the speed with which the QB has to make that read, and the ways the defense tries to disguise what they are doing to throw off that read. It *IS* complicated to perfect at game speed, no doubt about it!

I guess what I am asking is....is it worth it to play this style offense (which undoubtedly has its benefits for a school/team like GT) vs a simpler offense that might allow a talented freshman to play earlier?

It may be an impossible question to answer...but it does strike me as a hidden penalty for this offense. And I count myself as one who does NOT favor going to a pro set or something like that, just so we can raise our recruiting ranking from #50 to #44, and go 7-5 year after year.

IMO it is worth it as you have a QB who is generally more mature from both a physical and mental standpoint. Schools such as Bama, Clemson, GA and the like surround their young QBs with top tier talent so it doesn't fall on the QB's shoulders alone to win games as a freshman

 

[Coloradojacket]

I agree with what you are saying. I have studied the mesh and the speed with which the QB has to make that read, and the ways the defense tries to disguise what they are doing to throw off that read. It *IS* complicated to perfect at game speed, no doubt about it!

I guess what I am asking is....is it worth it to play this style offense (which undoubtedly has its benefits for a school/team like GT) vs a simpler offense that might allow a talented freshman to play earlier?

It may be an impossible question to answer...but it does strike me as a hidden penalty for this offense. And I count myself as one who does NOT favor going to a pro set or something like that, just so we can raise our recruiting ranking from #50 to #44, and go 7-5 year after year.

Ok, History lesson here, when you say a simpler offense, are you wanting something where it is a shotgun snap and the QB either throws it or runs it. If so then sure, that is simple, and we would win about 4 games per year. With what you are saying is that football has dumbed down and players aren't as smart as when I played the 70's. We all ran the wishbone and the veer and guess what, that is our offense today. You have to read the tackle and the end and decide to pull, pitch, or run it.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Ok, History lesson here, when you say a simpler offense, are you wanting something where it is a shotgun snap and the QB either throws it or runs it. If so then sure, that is simple, and we would win about 4 games per year. With what you are saying is that football has dumbed down and players aren't as smart as when I played the 70's. We all ran the wishbone and the veer and guess what, that is our offense today. You have to read the tackle and the end and decide to pull, pitch, or run it.

I think we have seen that this year with TO. He has a limited set of plays that he has excelled at. I am glad TQM has most of the playbook to keep defenses from keying on a limited set.

 

[MWBATL]

IMO it is worth it as you have a QB who is generally more mature from both a physical and mental standpoint. Schools such as Bama, Clemson, GA and the like surround their young QBs with top tier talent so it doesn't fall on the QB's shoulders alone to win games as a freshman

That's a good point......I think it ties into what @Coloradojacket is saying as well.....

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Thanks for the correction.....

...but I am still curious....Trevor Lawrence, Jake Fromm, Tua (last year) , Kyle Kempt (Iowa State) to name a few who *are* freshmen and making impacts....there's a bunch more if you go back a few years....

How many of these were “5 star” guys?

 

[OldJacketFan]

How many of these were “5 star” guys?

Lawrence and Fromm were, I think Tua was a mere 4 star

 

[GTonTop88]

I am glad Perkins is a junior!

Me too, he’ll be on Heisman watch for next year. He reminds me a lot of Tyrod Taylor.

 

[AE 87]

How many of these were “5 star” guys?

This is part of it.

The other is this, imo. When you have great athletes at every position, you can design your scheme for playmakers to make plays.

However, if you want to run a scheme like that you need talent at every position. What CPJ has with our O, and what I think CNW is installing on D, is a team-based scheme where the total is greater than a sum of its parts.

 

[Boss Ross]

I notice that around the country a number of freshmen have won starting QB and have impacted their teams seasons as a result. Perkins at UVa is an excellent example, but there are a few others as well. I am not saying it happens all the time, but it definitely happens....everywhere except GT.

Even when we seem to have a quality athlete at QB like JeT we don't seem to start them until their junior season.

Is this a "hidden" downside to our offense? Is it so complicated that when we do get a quality QB that we need to spend 2 years training them in its intricacies before they see the field?

Or, have we just been unsuccessful in getting a QB that has the skills of a kid like Perkins?

I will admit, it does make me wonder whether a simpler offense that would allow a Perkins type kid (Jet, maybe Graham?) to start early and use their athleticism has some appeal for me. Even with acknowledging that CPJ's offense has been a good thing for GT and allowed us to over-achieve compared to pure recruiting rankings...

If you had a QB that was just a average passer in this offense GT would be very hard to beat . TO is not the answer hope J G is .

 

[33jacket]

This is part of it.

The other is this, imo. When you have great athletes at every position, you can design your scheme for playmakers to make plays.

However, if you want to run a scheme like that you need talent at every position. What CPJ has with our O, and what I think CNW is installing on D, is a team-based scheme where the total is greater than a sum of its parts.

Its a good way of putting. The other addon to this is when you have a philosophy and system that works, you can target types of recruits that fit and may play like a 4 star in the scheme but was not highly recruited. Finding the right fit and athlete for your system is a huge chunk of recruiting success.

 

[ibeattetris]

Thanks for the correction.....

...but I am still curious....Trevor Lawrence, Jake Fromm, Tua (last year) , Kyle Kempt (Iowa State) to name a few who *are* freshmen and making impacts....there's a bunch more if you go back a few years....

It took multiple games for Trevor and Tua to start seeing significant play time (I can't speak to Iowa State as I know nothing about them). As the season went, the offense opened up more and they played better. The Trevor Lawrence playing against T A&M was not great, and Clemson is fortunate to have a senior QB to go to.

I personally thought JT looked really good as a freshman QB and thought he'd be beating out Vad the next season. I think if we get a special player like JT, he will see the field. JG is redshirting and looks pretty special. Hopefully he competes well and the QB position is better for it next year.

 

[Lavoisier]

Tons of high schools run spreads and that's all 7-on-7 is. Freshmen who go into spread systems or systems like Alabama's where they use some spread package have a lower learning curve with the playbook.

I don't know if this is urban legend or not, but supposedly all the kids in parts of Texas and Nebraska ran the same system as those schools back in the day from pop-warner on. Then when the in-state shools would offer them they already had years with the playbook.