Forbes Article on Stanford's Rise to Football Prominence

dressedcheeseside

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One can admire highly regarded universities that field successful football teams, but how many institutes do the same? Are we the only ones who try? Seems like beating a dead horse to me. Math and science are not just a hard sell to athletes, but are to youth in general as well.
I've always said if you want to know what we're truly up against just look at our peers in the academic world and see how many of them field FBS football teams.

The table below shows the top-ranked universities that granted the largest proportions of bachelor's degrees in STEM fields.

California Institute of Technology 98%
Colorado School of Mines 98%
Missouri University of Science & Technology 91%
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (MA) 88%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 86%
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) 84%
Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ) 82%
Michigan Technological University 77%
Clarkson University (NY) 76%
Georgia Institute of Technology 76%
 

Techster

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I've always said if you want to know what we're truly up against just look at our peers in the academic world and see how many of them field FBS football teams.

The table below shows the top-ranked universities that granted the largest proportions of bachelor's degrees in STEM fields.

California Institute of Technology 98%
Colorado School of Mines 98%
Missouri University of Science & Technology 91%
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (MA) 88%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 86%
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) 84%
Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ) 82%
Michigan Technological University 77%
Clarkson University (NY) 76%
Georgia Institute of Technology 76%

GT is also one of the top schools for FB players that major in STEM fields...oh, wait...

http://news.yahoo.com/ap-enterprise...lYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDM1N18x
 

Techster

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Yahoo should at least get the fight song right. I suspect the Mtrain at Tech has a more difficult math requirement than Organizational Development, History, or Communications majors at those other schools.

They do...2 high level maths (comparatively speaking with other schools) and 2 sciences.

I just don't think GT is as limiting as some on here are trying to make it out as. GT isn't a factory school, but there are more than enough high level (and by that I mean elite level) recruits that are strong academically just in the Metro Atl region for us to be able to sign atleast 3+ elite prospects on each side of the ball every year. We sign those guys, and complement them with what the staff is already doing and GT will be fine with the staff we have. I think that is a realistic goal for GT.
 

dressedcheeseside

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They do...2 high level maths (comparatively speaking with other schools) and 2 sciences.

I just don't think GT is as limiting as some on here are trying to make it out as. GT isn't a factory school, but there are more than enough high level (and by that I mean elite level) recruits that are strong academically just in the Metro Atl region for us to be able to sign atleast 3+ elite prospects on each side of the ball every year. We sign those guys, and complement them with what the staff is already doing and GT will be fine with the staff we have. I think that is a realistic goal for GT.
That may be correct, but most colleges can give a pretty good education if you really want one and want to do what it takes to achieve one. But what they also offer that we don't is mega ESPN exposure, a more realistic national championship potential, large crowds in large stadiums, girls, etc. Remember we are dealing with 17 and 18 yr old boys. These things are big draws and they help sway even the academically minded SA's. Unless a kid is dead set on becoming an engineer, they can get very close to the same education (management/business) with all the other perks that come with a factory.
 

Techster

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That may be correct, but most colleges can give a pretty good education if you really want one and want to do what it takes to achieve one. But what they also offer that we don't is mega ESPN exposure, a more realistic national championship potential, large crowds in large stadiums, girls, etc. Remember we are dealing with 17 and 18 yr old boys. These things are big draws and they help sway even the academically minded SA's. Unless a kid is dead set on becoming an engineer, they can get very close to the same education (management/business) with all the other perks that come with a factory.

Not many schools, in fact very few, has Atlanta and all it's business connections as an asset. It's the one of the reasons Vad came here, and Trey Klock was huge on the city. You make it sound like GT has nothing to offer outside of a very hard academic offering. I really hope our staff doesn't recruit like you!
 

DCSS

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Not many schools, in fact very few, has Atlanta and all it's business connections as an asset. It's the one of the reasons Vad came here, and Trey Klock was huge on the city. You make it sound like GT has nothing to offer outside of a very hard academic offering. I really hope our staff doesn't recruit like you!

That's where former players like Albert Rocker can sell the benefits of a Tech education.

Good point about the southern metropolis.
 

DCSS

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That may be correct, but most colleges can give a pretty good education if you really want one and want to do what it takes to achieve one. But what they also offer that we don't is mega ESPN exposure, a more realistic national championship potential, large crowds in large stadiums, girls, etc. Remember we are dealing with 17 and 18 yr old boys. These things are big draws and they help sway even the academically minded SA's. Unless a kid is dead set on becoming an engineer, they can get very close to the same education (management/business) with all the other perks that come with a factory.
True. But, the disadvantage is that most football players at other programs do not major in anything as near as challenging as the Mtrain. Easier majors help to keep players eligible and also allow other programs to recruit players who have few academic interests besides football.
 

takethepoints

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Public Policy is the same information from a different perspective. My wife received her PhD from Tech in PP and teaches a lot of PolySci classes. She says the difference is just perspective.
And in many ways she's right. But she's looking at it like an academic, not a perspective football player.

The way most political science programs work allows a more flexible mix of sub-fields then what you find at Tech. An example: almost every pol sci program I know allows students to do sub-field work in political philosophy. This doesn't mean that the student doesn't have to complete a methods class, but it does mean that those more oriented to textual analysis have a place to go. Or, to put it another way, it is more of a liberal arts discipline, despite an increasing emphasis on heavy duty science. That could fit at Tech and give us something else to put in front of the doubtful recruit.
 

dressedcheeseside

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True. But, the disadvantage is that most football players at other programs do not major in anything as near as challenging as the Mtrain. Easier majors help to keep players eligible and also allow other programs to recruit players who have few academic interests besides football.
I agree, but we were talking about the academic elite/blue chip prospects. I call 'em the smart blue chips. Even those guys aren't automatic for the reasons I laid out. We landed Calvin because he had a very academic upbringing and he wanted to stay close to home. That latter gave him two options and guess where he ended up.
 

DCSS

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I agree, but we were talking about the academic elite/blue chip prospects. I call 'em the smart blue chips. Even those guys aren't automatic for the reasons I laid out. We landed Calvin because he had a very academic upbringing and he wanted to stay close to home. That latter gave him two options and guess where he ended up.
Even the schools with which we compete for these academic elite/blue chip prospects have majors such as organizational development, history, and communications. This is what we're up against. What was Tuitt's major at ND anyway, Anthropology?
 

Techster

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Even the schools with which we compete for these academic elite/blue chip prospects have majors such as organizational development, history, and communications. This is what we're up against. What was Tuitt's major at ND anyway, Anthropology?

Not sure what his major was, but I do know he had to take Calculus...he got suspended 1 game (against Purdue) for repeatedly skipping his morning Calc class.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0111012_1_stephon-tuitt-overslept-brian-kelly
 

DCSS

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Not sure what his major was, but I do know he had to take Calculus...he got suspended 1 game (against Purdue) for repeatedly skipping his morning Calc class.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0111012_1_stephon-tuitt-overslept-brian-kelly
If you intend to declare a major in the College of Arts and Letters, you may fulfill your mathematics requirement by taking any two courses in mathematics, with the exception that you may not take two beginning-level calculus courses.

http://fys.nd.edu/incoming-students/first-year-requirements/mathematics/

http://anthropology.nd.edu/undergraduate-program/requirements/
 

Techster

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If you intend to declare a major in the College of Arts and Letters, you may fulfill your mathematics requirement by taking any two courses in mathematics, with the exception that you may not take two beginning-level calculus courses.

http://fys.nd.edu/incoming-students/first-year-requirements/mathematics/

http://anthropology.nd.edu/undergraduate-program/requirements/

So Tuitt was skipping out on a "second level" Calc class? You're either implying the article is lying, or Tuitt had to take an advance (second level) Calc course. I doubt they went through the trouble with the Chicago tribune to give the impression that Tuitt was skipping out on a hard class. If it's the former, it just reinforces that GT isn't the only school where SAs have to take hard math classes.
 

MWBATL

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My only contribution to this thread is imply this...I can state for a fact that every Ivy League university takes exceptions. They take exceptions for all sorts of reasons...exceptional athletes, exceptional musicians, exceptional artists, etc. But they definitely take exceptions for football. The term "exceptions" is however vague. In Ivy League schools, it means kids who otherwise would not be admitted under their regular admissions criteria. Doesn't mean those same kids are dumb or factory type kids...they're not. I seriously (and I do mean SERIOUSLY) doubt that a school like Stanford doesn't do what a school like Harvard does.

Not sure what relevance all of that has for us at Georgia Tech. Stanford's primary advantage over us remains their breadth of majors, in which they can "hide" good athletes if they so wish to do. Georgia Tech's primary challenge in the long run is keeping kids in school and qualified...the APR. Stanford's list of easy classes (publicized elsewhere) makes their advantage plain and is a huge deal, as the real issue these days is less an admissions issue but an APR issue.
 

dressedcheeseside

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A quick google search on Tuitt brought up this:

enrolled in College of Arts and Letters, with a major in anthropology.

http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/stephon_tuitt_768137.html

Does anybody seriously think the curriculum of anthropology at ND is as challenging as management (our "easy" major) at GT?

If you think yes, check this page out:

http://anthropology.nd.edu/undergraduate-program/courses/current-courses/

One of the required courses is Intro to Irish Folklore. What a grind!

I'm not even dissing ND, I'm actually a fan. My brother got his EE there and has done very well with it. By the way, my brother told me the student nickname for the College of Arts and Letters at ND was the College of Arts and Parties (because these students NEVER studied). It was the favorite fall back for students about to fail out of school.
 
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Techster

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A quick google search on Tuitt brought up this:



http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/stephon_tuitt_768137.html

Does anybody seriously think the curriculum of anthropology at ND is as challenging as management (our "easy" major) at GT?

If you think yes, check this page out:

http://anthropology.nd.edu/undergraduate-program/courses/current-courses/

One of the required courses is Intro to Irish Folklore. What a grind!

I'm not even dissing ND, I'm actually a fan. My brother got his EE there and has done very well with it. By the way, my brother told me the student nickname for the College of Arts and Letters at ND was the College of Arts and Parties (because these students NEVER studied). It was the favorite fall back for students about to fail out of school.

The funny thing about Tuitt is he actually WANTED to come to GT, so he wasn't shucking us to get an anthropology degree at ND. Believe it or not, there are kids of Tuitt's caliber on and off the field who are actually willing to do the work.

Now momma on the other hand...
 

dressedcheeseside

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The funny thing about Tuitt is he actually WANTED to come to GT, so he wasn't shucking us to get an anthropology degree at ND. Believe it or not, there are kids of Tuitt's caliber on and off the field who are actually willing to do the work.

Now momma on the other hand...
The point I'm trying to make is not specific to Tuitt, per se. It's to to point out that other highly regarded "academic" institutions have places to hide athletes. I'm sure Stanford has their "coast" majors, too.
 
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I've always said if you want to know what we're truly up against just look at our peers in the academic world and see how many of them field FBS football teams.

The table below shows the top-ranked universities that granted the largest proportions of bachelor's degrees in STEM fields.

California Institute of Technology 98%
Colorado School of Mines 98%
Missouri University of Science & Technology 91%
Worcester Polytechnic Institute (MA) 88%
Massachusetts Institute of Technology 86%
Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute (NY) 84%
Stevens Institute of Technology (NJ) 82%
Michigan Technological University 77%
Clarkson University (NY) 76%
Georgia Institute of Technology 76%

It is truly remarkable--AND UNIQUELY "GEORGIA TECH". Excellence in engineering and four national championships spanning seven decades. Somebody call Dennis Hayes and get a donation!
 

Techster

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The point I'm trying to make is not specific to Tuitt, per se. It's to to point out that other highly regarded "academic" institutions have places to hide athletes. I'm sure Stanford has their "coast" majors, too.

And the point I'm trying to make is there are quite a few elite kids out there that don't care about hiding behind easy majors. Quites a few in fact in just the metro Atlanta area alone. GT only needs to sign 3+ of those kinds of SA's on each side of the ball every year.
 
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