For all of those who blame the personnel

[dressedcheeseside]

I don't have access to game film, all I have access to is when people who clearly know what they're talking about talk. I also have my own eyes. I just don't see Gotsis playing at his 2013 level, let alone improving on it.

He's getting doubled a lot, too. When 6 block 4 it happens. It's because we have zero threat off the edge. Zero.

 

[gtcole]

DJ White is clearly a stud. Probably our most gifted DB in a while, since Sweeting. Yet he's regressed - and not just in terms of what the rest of the D is doing, but in man-man coverage on deep routes.

White has always had problems with deep routes. Look at the Clemson game last year. Always has great coverage, but can't quite finish. I definitely have high hopes for him though.

 

[jeffgt14]

@Oldgoldandwhite

Reggie Bush went from being a utility back to a legit feature back with a coaching/scheme change; Devin Hester went from a utility player to a legit weapon with a coaching change; Darren Sproles became one of the most dynamic RBs with a coaching/scheme change; Wes Welker went from also-ran to incredible with a coaching/scheme change; Alex Smith went from awful to above average with a coaching/scheme change; Ryan Fitzpatrick's play has been vastly correlated to the quality of his offensive scheme and staff; Carson Palmer looks like a new man with Bruce Arians; there was one year, 4-5 years ago, that 3 of the 4 Bears DL all went to Denver and became studs whereas in Chicago they sucked, etc.

I whole heartily disagree with every one of these. Reggie Bush got better because of CJ, Hester got slightly better because he's actually seeing the field instead of the bench because there's no one to challenge him for the 4th best WR in Atlanta, Darren Sproles has always been good, Welker was good with Joey Harrington throwing to him, Alex Smith really just benefited from finally having some stabilty so I'll give you that one, Ryan Fitzpatrick has never been more than an OK QB regardless of scheme, Palmer threw for 4,000 yards playing for the Raiders, These were 3 Browns D-Lineman (Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, & Ebenezer Ekuban who were all former 1st round picks). Their stats weren't any better in Denver than they were in Cleveland. The team was just actually winning. Gerard Warren was the only one on that team the next year and that was the only year he was there.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

Yes, but they went to schemes that maximized what they were doing. Would Welker have had 6/7 seasons of 100+ catches in Miami? No. Bush went to Miami first and posted 2,000 yards in 2 seasons.

Sproles wasn't nearly the 3rd down receiving threat in San Diego that he was in NO, and while Brees is partly responsible for that, so is designing plays to get him the ball.

Fitz looks serviceable this year, better than in the past, because they're not asking him to do what he was asked to do in the past. That's coaching.

Palmer threw for 4,000 yards but a lot of that was garbage time when the Raiders were down a lot. He's always had the arm, but he looks above average again now.

Good call on the Browns DL. I remembered it being kinda funny that the Broncos signed a whole DL from one team.

 

[jeffgt14]

For the record, I'm not completely arguing your point I'm just stating that there is a gray area where both talent and scheme exist. Michael Jordan wouldn't have been Michael Jordan without Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson. Phil Jackson wouldn't have been Phil Jackson without Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Scottie Pippen wouldn't have been Scottie Pippen without Phil Jackson and Michael Jordan. Now clearly Michael Jordan was Michael Jordan but he may not have been MICHAEL JORDAN without the others. Phil Jackson had the scheme to make Michael great and he also had the surrounding talent to make Michael great. Not even Phil Jackson could be Phil Jackson though with Kwame Brown and Smush Parker.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

@jeffgt14 I don't think we disagree. I made the points I made in response to this statement from another poster: "Good athletes get better, in spite of coaching"

which is NOT true.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

@jeffgt14 I don't think we disagree. I made the points I made in response to this statement from another poster: "Good athletes get better, in spite of coaching"

which is NOT true.

Who said that?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

Oldgoldandwhite in the 3rd or 4th post

 

[alaguy]

Guys,
we have a capability lack to start with--
Green is a 280 lb Sr who has never started-for whatever reason--injuries,weak, etc
Gotsis is also 280 (not 310 like a lot of alpha DTs)but gets double-teamed a lot because--we have a 230 TRUE fresh on one DE side and a 230 lb Sr with no exp,who would have been 3rd string w/o the losses. on the other side(which says a lot about the guy he beat out)
Davis is 215 lb true soph,who will get stronger, but now has only speed and natural tackling instincts.
Nealy has exp but even the first game the announcers were commenting that he has poor capability of getting off blocks , lateral movement is lacking
Smith is not a natural tackler, he is a hybrid supposedly but is neither a good DB nor good LB (still better than Marcordes who might be starting?gulp, next yr)
White is an real athlete but not a natural tackler either, better coaching would help he and Milton a lot--they play scared --maybe because of no rush
IJ and Golden are not quick nor really fast-they are the S type who depend of rush (or bad QBs)to cover for their weaknesses,good luck on that,but I've got to give IJ credit for a LOT of tackles vs pitt (even with missing Conner on long run) like a STRONG safety should
It is a small def team with very average strength and fair speed overall.--- as far as depth- we saw mcNair drop a int right in his hands when he went in , L Griffin lucked out when he got beat on TD pass when the WR dropped the ball, never saw Gamble(nor Kallon) get in on play when I watched tape
In general ,they are not playing to their few strengths seems to me

After watching thelast tape ,the ONLY way to see real improvement is to press and blitz like we saw in the 2nd half.We are 106th? playing passively.Couldn't do too much worse.

 

[takethepoints]

I know Bill Mathis (former Jet in the Namath years) slightly. My son went to a Falcons game during the drought before Dan Reeves with Bill. The Falcons were getting beat badly and one of the others in the party looked over at Bill and said, "Bill, what's the matter? Is it the coaching?" My son said that Bill had just taken a big drink of his Coke and had a very hard time not spraying the entire party with it. "No," he said, after he swallowed and through a full belly laugh, "it's not the coaching!" My son said he was still chuckling 5 minutes later.

Bad coaches won't make a team better, true, but even the best coaching won't make up for talent, inexperience, and depth problems. That's where we are today on D; we have the trifecta and it shows. As I've said here before, I don't see any evidence that the schemes are wrong (though we do seem to have a problem making the players stick to them occasionally). The quality depth problem, however, is evident.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I whole heartily disagree with every one of these. Reggie Bush got better because of CJ, Hester got slightly better because he's actually seeing the field instead of the bench because there's no one to challenge him for the 4th best WR in Atlanta, Darren Sproles has always been good, Welker was good with Joey Harrington throwing to him, Alex Smith really just benefited from finally having some stabilty so I'll give you that one, Ryan Fitzpatrick has never been more than an OK QB regardless of scheme, Palmer threw for 4,000 yards playing for the Raiders, These were 3 Browns D-Lineman (Courtney Brown, Gerard Warren, & Ebenezer Ekuban who were all former 1st round picks). Their stats weren't any better in Denver than they were in Cleveland. The team was just actually winning. Gerard Warren was the only one on that team the next year and that was the only year he was there.

Thanks. A lot has to do with maturation.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

There is quite a bit of comparing apples to oranges in this thread. Players don't really regress IMO unless injured. Their impact on games may if not surrounded by equal or better talent than the year before.

 

[GlennW]

What an idiot. Have you ever thought that calls from the defensive sideline impacts where our players line up, and, therefore, puts them in a position to play 10 yards off the line of scrimmage or in zone coverage, or to play on an outside rush for containment, rather than rush inside and try to get to a QB, and give the outside vulnerable to the outside options because our DB's and LB's are playing loose.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again; Ted Roof inherited a roster of players who were slated to play in a 3-4 defense and he's trying to convert them to a 4-3 or 4-2-5 if we're playing a spread option. The physical nature of the players oftern time vary based on the types of defense, and as Roof is getting his recruited players on the field, he'll be able to implement a more aggressive, attacking style of his version of the defense he wants to implement. Until then, we're going to have to work with who we have.