For all of those who blame the personnel

[Wrecking Ball]

DJ White is clearly a stud. Probably our most gifted DB in a while, since Sweeting. Yet he's regressed - and not just in terms of what the rest of the D is doing, but in man-man coverage on deep routes.

Adam Gotsis has regressed, to the point that it's Shawn Green drawing double teams instead of him.

Quayshawn Nealy has regressed. Nealy has been quietly solid his whole career til now.

That's just three off the top of my head.

And it's NOT just the DL. They are doing poorly in things that are independent of the DL. Making tackles in space, covering, being in the right position, etc.

Is it time to let Roof bring in his own assistants besides Pelton? IIRC CPJ made the mistake of not letting Wommack bring his own in.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Adam Gotsis has regressed, to the point that it's Shawn Green drawing double teams instead of him.

Evidence of Gotsis' regression?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

He's not drawing double teams, as he did last year; not getting pass rush (until last game) in spite of that. Last year he'd be doubled and still get the sack (and yeah I know Attaochu factored into that) but he isn't playing at an all-ACC level by anyone's estimation.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

I think you just made my argument instead of yours. Good athletes get better, in spite of coaching.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Nice list of unsupported opinions in this thread.

 

[Frenchise]

It's much more of a team effort than you think.

When the DL can't get pressure, the secondary looks bad. Coverages aren't supposed to last for more than 8 seconds really, if not shorter. When you're covering a guy for 15-20 seconds, he will make you look bad.

When you've only got 3/4 DL who moderate threats, and you have 4 of 5 to block 3, no one looks that good. Believe me, Attaochu made everyone look much better. That's the way it works.

If you have any real evidence, please let me know.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

I think you just made my argument instead of yours. Good athletes get better, in spite of coaching.

That's... insane. The NFL has some of the world's greatest athletes and it's clear that coaching is the difference in successful vs. unsuccessful teams (Dallas until this year).

 

[dressedcheeseside]

Coverages aren't supposed to last for more than 8 seconds really, if not shorter. When you're covering a guy for 15-20 seconds, he will make you look bad.

What? Most of the passing plays we've defended haven't even gone 8 seconds (before the throw). I bet UNC's average time from snap to release was about 3 to 4 secs. All the teams together maybe 5 to 6. 15 - 20? Are you serious?

 

[Frenchise]

He's not drawing double teams, as he did last year; not getting pass rush (until last game) in spite of that. Last year he'd be doubled and still get the sack (and yeah I know Attaochu factored into that) but he isn't playing at an all-ACC level by anyone's estimation.

Do you think that maybe he wasn't getting the best OL blocking him last year and this year he is?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

DL - Gotsis fared poorly against the double teams, which happened fairly often. When he was one - on - one he usually made an impact on the play, but he was far from dominant. If you ask me Green is the only guy we have in there with a legit burst off the ball, violent hands, and the ability to penetrate with low leverage. He was pretty disruptive in there shucking OLs with relative frequency, but when he was out it was a different story.

LB - these guys had a tough game. I feel for them because they couldn't play aggressively and they were left essentially alone (2 of them) in the middle to handle a lot of space. CTR was asking a lot of them in this alignment IMHO. I think having to read took some of the starch out of them in the tackling department. It wasn't really noteworthy. They were often 1/4 step late and just enough so that they weren't in good enough position to put a hat on a guy. Lots of grabbing and not much hitting. Give the Wofford QB credit though, he made this happen by running the offense so well..

Nice list of unsupported opinions in this thread.

Here ya go

 

[flounder]

I can't say one way or another about individual players, but I will say that I think it's time to let our DC pick his own assistants. Doing it the way we have been hasn't been working. If Roof is going to bear the responsibility for our defense, he needs to be given control.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

That's... insane. The NFL has some of the world's greatest athletes and it's clear that coaching is the difference in successful vs. unsuccessful teams (Dallas until this year).

You are making my point. We are talking individual instead of team. Manning get worse with different coaches? John Abraham? The NFL changes coaches like underwear.

 

[Frenchise]

What? Most of the passing plays we've defended haven't even gone 8 seconds (before the throw). I bet UNC's average time from snap to release was about 3 to 4 secs. All the teams together maybe 5 to 6. 15 - 20? Are you serious?

That might be an exaggeration.

I've seen play this year where we brought 4 and the QB could have tied both his shoes without a sack. UNC didn't need that much time, teams with worse QB/WRs did.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

You are making my point. We are talking individual instead of team. Manning get worse with different coaches? John Abraham? The NFL changes coaches like underwear.

Again that's insane, and a logical fallacy. Using Manning and Abraham is like pointing to Oprah and saying "black people aren't poor!" Most athletes depend on quality coaching.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

@Oldgoldandwhite

Reggie Bush went from being a utility back to a legit feature back with a coaching/scheme change; Devin Hester went from a utility player to a legit weapon with a coaching change; Darren Sproles became one of the most dynamic RBs with a coaching/scheme change; Wes Welker went from also-ran to incredible with a coaching/scheme change; Alex Smith went from awful to above average with a coaching/scheme change; Ryan Fitzpatrick's play has been vastly correlated to the quality of his offensive scheme and staff; Carson Palmer looks like a new man with Bruce Arians; there was one year, 4-5 years ago, that 3 of the 4 Bears DL all went to Denver and became studs whereas in Chicago they sucked, etc.

 

[Squints]

DJ White is clearly a stud. Probably our most gifted DB in a while, since Sweeting. Yet he's regressed - and not just in terms of what the rest of the D is doing, but in man-man coverage on deep routes.

Adam Gotsis has regressed, to the point that it's Shawn Green drawing double teams instead of him.

Quayshawn Nealy has regressed. Nealy has been quietly solid his whole career til now.

Or we had an over-inflated opinion of our own players which has been exposed. Wouldn't be the first time this happened.

Why does our defensive issues have to be talent OR scheme/coaching when it's probably both? Why do we need to pin it one or another?

 

[Wrecking Ball]

Or we had an over-inflated opinion of our own players which has been exposed. Wouldn't be the first time this happened.

Why does our defensive issues have to be talent OR scheme/coaching when it's probably both? Why do we need to pin it one or another?

Well, if it's scheme we can change that. Short of deer antler spray and protein shakes we can't fix talent. I don't know - I SAW DJ White play like a man possessed last year, but maybe I am remembering it better than it was.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

Here ya go

So you quoted Boomer saying Gotsis had a rough time with double teams to prove that he has regressed? That's what you're bringing to the table?

I don't disagree that some of our D guys don't look like they're improving week-to-week, but your Gotsis argument is weak.

 

[Wrecking Ball]

So you quoted Boomer saying Gotsis had a rough time with double teams to prove that he has regressed? That's what you're bringing to the table?

I don't disagree that some of our D guys don't look like they're improving week-to-week, but your Gotsis argument is weak.

I don't have access to game film, all I have access to is when people who clearly know what they're talking about talk. I also have my own eyes. I just don't see Gotsis playing at his 2013 level, let alone improving on it.

 

[SidewalkJacket]

I don't have access to game film, all I have access to is when people who clearly know what they're talking about talk. I also have my own eyes. I just don't see Gotsis playing at his 2013 level, let alone improving on it.

Then if you haven't analyzed the film to measure his impact, it sounds like you are going on stats. And stats are probably the least important factor in a DL's impact. Again, I am not claiming AG has taken a giant leap in ability. I am saying you have no factual evidence to claim he has regressed. It's a weak argument.