Fixes on O

dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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Folks always bring up the passing game when discussing what most needs improvement on O. For me it’s the counter game. Our counter option plays look as if our guys are wearing lead boots in quick sand and they almost never work. We must have an answer for defenses that sell out on motion, but haven’t since JeT left.

I know there’s much to fix, but this is #1 on my wish list.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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Jacketman said:
Instead of counter option, how about triple option? We only ran it a few times last year IIRC. That play is the essence of the offense, and we need to master it if we want to be successful on O.
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One reason we didn’t run it so much is because defenses were selling out on motion. Without a numbers advantage that play is dead in the water and goes for a loss.
 
Coloradojacket

Coloradojacket

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dressedcheeseside said:
One reason we didn’t run it so much is because defenses were selling out on motion. Without a numbers advantage that play is dead in the water and goes for a loss.
Click to expand...
Um I would say it was two issues. 1 TQM was not reading the play correctly as there were many times he should have given the ball to the B-back. Second, our tackle play was sub par. I think with TQM having more experience this play will begin to work better. As for the counter, I have hated that play every year. In remember in 2010 we ran it three times in a row against NC State. The play is too slow.
 

Sideways

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Coloradojacket said:
Um I would say it was two issues. 1 TQM was not reading the play correctly as there were many times he should have given the ball to the B-back. Second, our tackle play was sub par. I think with TQM having more experience this play will begin to work better. As for the counter, I have hated that play every year. In remember in 2010 we ran it three times in a row against NC State. The play is too slow.
Click to expand...

The counter is too slow but if run correctly it is a ***** for linebackers who take one or two steps the wrong way and have left a good angle for a lineman to block them. The counter trap that we run with Benson seems pretty effective most of the time. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study of which of the basic plays works the best over the course of the season? I am sure it has to do with how teams are playing us and the particular strengths of the quarterbacks and such. The problem, as I see it, is that teams have started to sell out on the motion and it is really hard to get a hat on the deep set middle linebacker and the safeties who are flowing to the play side. I do not pretend to have an answer but I do recall that teams that tried that early on when we had Thomas at receiver learned real quick that leaving no safety help for a corner matched up with Bey Bey more often than not led to a touchdown.

I can't blame teams for doing this. If I were a defensive coordinator I would be sending those safeties up in a hurry and leave the corners on an island with our wide receivers. No disrespect intended but I would be willing to bet that more times than not you (the receivers) can't beat our single coverage and your tackles cannot block our outside linebackers and safeties. Simple as that.
 

Sideways

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Coloradojacket said:
Um I would say it was two issues. 1 TQM was not reading the play correctly as there were many times he should have given the ball to the B-back. Second, our tackle play was sub par. I think with TQM having more experience this play will begin to work better. As for the counter, I have hated that play every year. In remember in 2010 we ran it three times in a row against NC State. The play is too slow.
Click to expand...

"our tackle play was sub par" Hmm, seems like I have heard that before in seasons past. Must be my increasingly faulty memory.
 

JorgeJonas

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Coloradojacket said:
Um I would say it was two issues. 1 TQM was not reading the play correctly as there were many times he should have given the ball to the B-back. Second, our tackle play was sub par. I think with TQM having more experience this play will begin to work better. As for the counter, I have hated that play every year. In remember in 2010 we ran it three times in a row against NC State. The play is too slow.
Click to expand...
I agree completely about the tackles. We didn’t block an inside linebacker all season. And if you can’t block him, the numbers advantage disappears, regardless of the direction of the play. And if we can’t run, we can’t throw.
 

YJMD

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A good inside running game will help. If we can get the backers sucked inside just a little longer, the pulling linemen can get their men squared up. And we also have to be able to get wide so their pitch guy follows the motion and isn't able to make it back in the play.
 
Coloradojacket

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Sideways said:
The counter is too slow but if run correctly it is a ***** for linebackers who take one or two steps the wrong way and have left a good angle for a lineman to block them. The counter trap that we run with Benson seems pretty effective most of the time. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study of which of the basic plays works the best over the course of the season? I am sure it has to do with how teams are playing us and the particular strengths of the quarterbacks and such. The problem, as I see it, is that teams have started to sell out on the motion and it is really hard to get a hat on the deep set middle linebacker and the safeties who are flowing to the play side. I do not pretend to have an answer but I do recall that teams that tried that early on when we had Thomas at receiver learned real quick that leaving no safety help for a corner matched up with Bey Bey more often than not led to a touchdown.

I can't blame teams for doing this. If I were a defensive coordinator I would be sending those safeties up in a hurry and leave the corners on an island with our wide receivers. No disrespect intended but I would be willing to bet that more times than not you (the receivers) can't beat our single coverage and your tackles cannot block our outside linebackers and safeties. Simple as that.
Click to expand...

So one way to slow the flow on motion would be to run a B counter on it. So when we run rocket toss, instead of the toss, fake and give it to the B-back breaking to the opposite side. I ran this with my youth football and it was a killer. The other play I wich we would run is a jet. On the snap the A back cuts behind the line and the QB gives him the ball on a jet play. This also worked well.
 
dressedcheeseside

dressedcheeseside

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Sideways said:
The counter is too slow but if run correctly it is a ***** for linebackers who take one or two steps the wrong way and have left a good angle for a lineman to block them. The counter trap that we run with Benson seems pretty effective most of the time. I wonder if anyone has ever done a study of which of the basic plays works the best over the course of the season? I am sure it has to do with how teams are playing us and the particular strengths of the quarterbacks and such. The problem, as I see it, is that teams have started to sell out on the motion and it is really hard to get a hat on the deep set middle linebacker and the safeties who are flowing to the play side. I do not pretend to have an answer but I do recall that teams that tried that early on when we had Thomas at receiver learned real quick that leaving no safety help for a corner matched up with Bey Bey more often than not led to a touchdown.

I can't blame teams for doing this. If I were a defensive coordinator I would be sending those safeties up in a hurry and leave the corners on an island with our wide receivers. No disrespect intended but I would be willing to bet that more times than not you (the receivers) can't beat our single coverage and your tackles cannot block our outside linebackers and safeties. Simple as that.
Click to expand...
We burned the crap out of Virginia tech with Matthew Jordan when they sold out on motion.
 
bobongo

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Coloradojacket said:
So one way to slow the flow on motion would be to run a B counter on it. So when we run rocket toss, instead of the toss, fake and give it to the B-back breaking to the opposite side. I ran this with my youth football and it was a killer.
Click to expand...

I like it. Make them pay and next time they'll hesitate. And he who hesitates is lost.
 
tech_wreck47

tech_wreck47

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Biggest issue imo is the OL knowin their assignment. How many times have we heard they went to the wrong guy or did this or that wrong? OL gets their assignments right and the other plays will follow.
 
iceeater1969

iceeater1969

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Play calling is important too.

When we played ND , they beat us to the edge. We scored on 2 plays that's coach called which really flowed to left. It was a fake student body left pass to b b in right flat.

When you call a counter play for Shamire to pull left you can't expect to get wide - the qb must wait for rg to get by and by that time he knows he has to cut up field as the right defensive end is on his tail. Can work for a few yards.
First play after half time (I i r c in vt) the same play to right behind Braun and its 16 all the way for TD. I think rg did good job of down block. The qb was right on the pulling guards him while they RAN down field.

Like the chances of this being improved with our 2018 staff being increased.

As to the play our o g should be very good w a year older Braun , a healthy lean cooper, and a muscled upBryan.

As to the 2018 tackles I have only wishful hopes for a healthy full strength Marshall , a year older Lee, etc to reach a modicum of effectiveness.

I am wondering if we have tackles that are TOO large. Lee is around 285-90 and stickler was a full 3 bills. Finding a tackle that can drive block, pass block and down field block is what every team wants. Here in Pensacola I am watching us try to recruit some ol guys who are ga tech ready as rising Sr. They are getting all the major offers (Clem, auburn, msu - the ones who have " good engineering programs" . Coach Andy has been by twice, the kids have really liked the Gt visit but our chances are low.

As a long term solution , I wonder if we went with 260 lb tackles that are just ok on drive blocking , ok for pass locking but GOOD for open field blocking is more suited for OUR offense. Also could we consider letting the tackles play with out knee braces for more agility?? . I hate seeing a play opening up and then the lb juke the tackle and run by for the tackle. How about more of a tight end or defensive end size??
 

bos

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Can't run counter too many times in a game. I think the most important improvement rests on TM's reads.
 

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Coloradojacket said:
So one way to slow the flow on motion would be to run a B counter on it. So when we run rocket toss, instead of the toss, fake and give it to the B-back breaking to the opposite side. I ran this with my youth football and it was a killer. The other play I wich we would run is a jet. On the snap the A back cuts behind the line and the QB gives him the ball on a jet play. This also worked well.
Click to expand...

Yep. We did have a lot of success with what is I think called the Bubble Option, where TaQuon spins around, we pull the Guard and Tackle, and he runs behind them as shields. We probably ran it 10 times against Tennessee with great success. I also remember us running it to score a couple long touchdowns against Wake Forest. We had it wide open a couple times against Miami IIRC but we slipped and fell in the mud.

But I am also a big fan of the direct handoff counter just as you said. No risk of having to wait for pulling guards and for the play to set up. Especially given where the most aggressive defenses we run against are folks like Clemson, Miami, and Georgie, you can't give them any time at all. Especially Clemson, whose DL holds like crazy on the line, if you can run a quick direct handoff counter into the line while they're all occupied, the Linebackers attacking the edges are caught too.





 
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