Fall from grace - Tech basketball is at where GT football was from 1967–94

[Ramble1885]

Tech has a wonderful history under Whack Hyder. He had twice as many wins against Adolph Rupp’s Kentucky teams as any other coach. In 1955, Hyder’s Tech team knocked off the then number one in the nation Kentucky team and snapped their 129 game home win streak. Under Hyder Tech also had several upsets of powerful UNC teams.

It’s not that Tech was a basketball blue blood, but they were competitive and never an embarrassment to the school. As a young child, I caught the tail end of Hyder’s tenure and followed Tech with great expectations all the way through Cremins and Hewett. The only coach that has given me glimpses of hope since then was Pastner.

For me what makes this a difficult time is that is doesn’t feel like what I remembered about Tech basketball growing up. I’m not ready to throw in the towel but I am anxious to get to the bottom of what ails this program now. I had hoped we had more talent than we are showing.

Tech basketball wasn’t all sunshine and roses though. I hear early 80’s pre BC was awful.

 

[BeeRBee]

Would we? as i said, we were about to be hit with sanctions and the first thing they go after is available scholarships. I guess we could have hoped for making us ineligible for the tournament. That is just business as usual.

Not at all arguing that GT would have been better off keeping Hewitt, but you are misstating the academic status and potential sanctions at the time of his firing. Quoting from a post of mine from 2017, which was itself a quote from a post on a different site:

GT under Hewitt had a three year stretch from 2005-2006 to 2007-2008 which were bad APR-wise, with single year APRs of 935, 913, and 840. Because the APR measurement used to determine penalties is a four year average, this period continued to hit with a 1 year scholarship reduction taken in 2010-2011.
However, the APR in Hewitt's last three years, leading up to Gregory's hiring, were 953, 960, and 1000. (Gregory gets some credit for that last year, although he was hired at the end of the academic year.) The single year APR's in Gregory's first four years were then 1000, 1000, 960, and 981, clearly putting a focus on academic culture.
As far as I know, there were no significant academic risks on the roster Gregory inherited. I do give him credit for getting the returning players to continue their academic focus.

The APR problems were behind GT, and only the 4 year average nature of the reporting made it continue to look bad. They were not ”about to be hit with sanctions”, and in fact had already had a 1 year scholarship reduction.

 

[stinger78]

P

Anyone questioning the dismissal of Hewitt is failing to remember how ugly the team played in his last 6 years. Even with the teams with the 5* studs, the offense was agonizingly stagnant. When questioned about it, Hewitt got snarky and defensive. If Hewitt had a list of professional interests and priorities, winning for GT wasn't high enough on that list.

There were all the tell-tale signs of the professor who ceased to publish and land the big grants once they got tenured.

This.
Gregory and Pastner missed the NCAAT without having sufficient ACC level talent. Hewitt was missing it with sufficient ACC level talent.
Major difference. There’s a reason why CPH has never excelled anywhere else.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Tech basketball wasn’t all sunshine and roses though. I hear early 80’s pre BC was awful.

But don’t read the 80s based on viewing it through the lens of our more recent bad history. That was considered an anomaly back then so it felt infinitely more endurable. Our more recent history makes it feel like we’ve always been bad. And that is what makes it so bleak feeling.

 

[Ramble1885]

But don’t read the 80s based on viewing it through the lens of our more recent bad history. That was considered an anomaly back then so it felt infinitely more endurable. Our more recent history makes it feel like we’ve always been bad. And that is what makes it so bleak feeling.

My dad has seen how down I am about it and said that 2010's-20's GT basketball reminds him of the 70's-80's Atlanta Braves. Not always great, but always interesting in some way. I guess our 2021 run is similar to the 1982 Braves team.

IF HIS COMPARISON IS TRUE WE WILL BE VERY GOOD IN THE 30'S

 

[Ramble1885]

But don’t read the 80s based on viewing it through the lens of our more recent bad history. That was considered an anomaly back then so it felt infinitely more endurable. Our more recent history makes it feel like we’ve always been bad. And that is what makes it so bleak feeling.

yes but the WORST we've been in this downward period is 12 wins (2015, 2022) I'd rather be mediocre and have wins every now and then than be HISTORICALLY bad which is what GT basketball was from 79-81.

going 4-22? Can't imagine that happening today. Louisville fans endured a LOT with Kenny Payne. (it's honestly good for their sanity they beat us twice.)

 

[Peacone36]

yes but the WORST we've been in this downward period is 12 wins (2015, 2022) I'd rather be mediocre and have wins every now and then than be HISTORICALLY bad which is what GT basketball was from 79-81.

going 4-22? Can't imagine that happening today. Louisville fans endured a LOT with Kenny Payne. (it's honestly good for their sanity they beat us twice.)

and look at em now after hiring a successful, highly sought after coach. 12-5 (5-1), tied for second in the ACC NET rankings. Crazy. Thats what you get when you have a program that actually GAF about winning.

 

[Techster]

Cremins gave GT a 10 year run that most young GT fans probably can't fathom today. When you get bounced in the 1st or 2nd round of the NCAAT and feel "disappointed", well, you've definitely raised the bar for a program. 3 trips to the Sweet 16, 1 Elite Eight, 1 Final Four, 3 ACCT championships...and a bunch of first and second round NCAAT trips sprinkled in a 11 year period.

Hewitt, for all his faults, did pretty well following Cremins. Recruited as well as anyone for a period, took us to a Final 4, and GT was basically in the Postseason every other year of his GT tenure. The contract Braine gave him gave everyone a stomach ache, but that wasn't his fault. No one turns down that kind of contract. As others have pointed out, Hewitt gave us an out with that contract later on, but Radakovich blew it.

On paper, Brian Gregory wasn't a terrible hire. He was coming off a good 4 year run for Dayton. Gregory just wasn't a fit for GT following Hewitt. Recruiting was uneven, and he was extremely conservative on the court. His teams were at times PAINFUL to watch. Let's be honest, if it weren't for GT being strapped with the Gailey and Hewitt buyouts, GT probably doesn't look in Gregory's direction after Hewitt was let go.

Pastner, like Gregory, wasn't a terrible hire. We also have to look at the budget constraints at the time. Pastner had a reputation for recruiting at Memphis, but could never put together enough recruiting wins at GT. He had that one really fun run with Alvarado/Moses/Devoe/Usher, but Covid quickly knocked the wind out of that season getting bounced in the first round of the NCAAT without Wright.

Stoudamire was a surprise pick. IMO, a high ceiling/low floor type hire. Recruiting has gone well for him, and he's gotten some big wins on the court. Let's be honest, his time at GT so far has been marked by inconsistency. There are things on the court that greatly concern me about Stoudamire's time so far, and it gives me the same feelings as the on the field product of Geoff Collins time here. The irony of both hires is both Collins and Stoudamire came into the job with a reputation for defense, yet both their defenses are/have been pretty bad. You want to give Stoudamire a long runway because you see what he's doing with recruiting, but recruiting only matters if the talent translates to the court. Unlike Collins, Stoudamire isn't a clown show, and I think he's a sincere coach trying to figure it all out. GT just needs more wins, and the talent we're bringing in needs to start bearing fruit on the court. Stoudamire has won enough big games that GT fans can see the potential. We just need to start winning more consistently against teams that we should beat.

 

[Peacone36]

Game programs are a thing of the past? That is the worst thing Ive read today.

 

[GaTech4ever]

This comment isn’t referring to this board, rather the overall fan base. We’re in a peculiar place right now.

GT hoops loyalists see the complainers’ woes as deserved — the price of unmet needs and inconsistent support. Yet, GT hoops complainers see the loyalists as too entrenched and numb to recognize the flaws before them.

Great place to be!!

 

[GaTech4ever]

Also, while I’m here. I’m gonna reiterate how much of a joke it was for @spdrama (and everyone who liked their comment) to claim I (a donor and alum) don’t support our student-athletes simply because I said in the offseason that Baye Ndongo would likely never be a first round pick. I used his age, current skill set, and NBA needs for my logic. And I was told I’m not a true fan.

That was an embarrassing response then, and is shameful now.

 

[BeeRBee]

Pastner, like Gregory, wasn't a terrible hire. We also have to look at the budget constraints at the time. Pastner had a reputation for recruiting at Memphis, but could never put together enough recruiting wins at GT. He had that one really fun run with Alvarado/Moses/Devoe/Usher, but Covid quickly knocked the wind out of that season getting bounced in the first round of the NCAAT without Wright.

To me, the unanswerable question is how Pastner would have fared if Bobinski had been a better fit at Tech and had stayed. He supposedly was brought in to "fix" basketball because that was his background, and his assessment of Pastner was that the problems at Memphis were due to poor decisions in hiring assistants. He was reportedly heavily involved in vetting Pastner's initial assistant hires. Are replacement hires better if he is still around? Does the Ron Bell situation happen in the same way or is the oversight better?

Not sure that Pastner's flaws wouldn't have sunk him eventually anyway, but I still wonder about the impact of the change at AD.

 

[GTrob21]

It's a tough period, but I'm here for it.

 

[Home Park Jacket]

Also, while I’m here. I’m gonna reiterate how much of a joke it was for @spdrama (and everyone who liked their comment) to claim I (a donor and alum) don’t support our student-athletes simply because I said in the offseason that Baye Ndongo would likely never be a first round pick. I used his age, current skill set, and NBA needs for my logic. And I was told I’m not a true fan.

That was an embarrassing response then, and is shameful now.

@GaTech4ever, just let it go. @spdrama has on me too, but he is a GT fan and there's too few of us to let other GT fans run us away more than the team already does.

 

[stinger78]

I don’t like the comparison, personally. GT played some darned good football at times between 1967-94, won an MNC and finished in the top 15 several times.

However, there is some comparison. During that time frame, our FB program saw 12 winning seasons, 2 .500 seasons, and 14 losing seasons. Basketball has seen 12 winning seasons against 16 losing seasons. Not too different, really.

Coaching and assistants make a huge difference, but it does take time. Not 40 years, but time.

 

[travgt01]

whoa whoa whoa.

Dino Gaudio won 61 games in his three years at Wake Forest to go along with two NCAA tournament appearances after their beloved head coach passed away from a heart attack. In his second season he made the tournament, in his third they went to the second round.

In Hewitt's best three years he won 71 games and averaged fewer than 16 victories per season over his final six. Combine that with the fact that we were on the verge of NCAA sanctions due to academic performance and it was past time to part ways. Im assuming youre young and don't remember watching his teams play because once his staff from the NC team moved on, the on court product was...not good. The fact that we could have gotten out of his contract by letting him go to St. Johns but talked him out of it only to fire him a year later putting us on the hook for the buyout is incompetence on a whole different level.

I spoke with Dino about his time at Wake Forest years ago and he actually went into that meeting thinking he was receiving an extension and a raise. He was completely blindsided by the firing.

Isn’t Dino in jail?

 

[wrmathis]

Isn’t Dino in jail?

he got 1 year probation and $10k fine