Expansion Talk 2021

[Jmonty71]

The NFL tried with NFL Europe and was trying again with Arena League. They’d like a minor league if it was a money maker

SEC would be a money maker... Just call it as it is... Most of the "student athletes" don't go to school for an education. They attend the easiest classes (if they attend, at all), do 3 years of showing their talent for the NFL, for the shot of playing for big money. Let the kids that actually want an education play in the NCAA.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

RonJohn is exactly right and this has always been the case and always be the case going forward. Number of first round draft picks, players on NFL rosters, comparative W-L records....none of the "facts" matter to ESPN, who wants to hype the SEC into the money making machine of GOAT of college football.

Wish I had 10 more likes to give this.

Some of us are old enough to remember when the SEC began their PR campaign, long before ESPN. The SEC would gets its clock cleaned by somebody like Texas, Oklahoma, Southern Cal or even Cal-Berkeley, and the narrative was that SEC teams were weakened for play out of conference because they spent so much time beating each other up in the “really tough conference.” By the way, the narrative back in the day was not “SEC speed” it was the “SEC is the most physical” conference.

Fake it till you make it can actually work but the typical ACC fan has trouble pushing the same kind of SEC bull-pucky with a straight face. We are far more self critical.

 

[BurdellJacket]

isn’t all of college football involved in socialist policy ? The ACC distributes 32 million per year to every team based on a collective agreement that is only appealing to TV because of 3 teams. The GORs agreements are a capitulation of individual school property rights collectively pooled for the purpose of 1) soliciting big TV contracts and 2) distributing that money equally to all schools in their respective conferences, including those schools who bring the dreaded “nothing to the table”. If you did your research, which you are good at, you would find that what brought up the value of the BIG 10 was sharing revenue, in particular gate and concession revenue. Sharing made the bottom teams stronger which reaped value when TV deals were negotiated. Ohio State, Penn State, Michigan gave up around 1.2 million each to the lower schools and it helped them improve facilities, hire coaches and recruiting staff .

what I’m saying is that for a lot of people there is literally no need for a parachute because you will never take the leap from the comfort of the plane. Meaning you will simply die in the crash, by the stubborn need to insist the plane isn’t really going down.

Currently The SEC pulls in about twice as much per team than the ACC in TV deals, when they renew the contract some estimate it will bring up to 5 times more than what they are getting now, the low end estimate is 3 times the current rate. The Big 10 pays out even higher right now and is expected to triple its per team rate when it renews. Meantime The ACC will be locked where they are for 15 more years, do the math. The plane we are in is crashing !

10 years from now Georgia will be getting up to 150 million a year in TV money alone, (100 million if the deal just doubles), the ACC powerhouse, Clemson will still be getting 32 million, for 5 more years thereafter. Even Clemson cannot compete against that. If the ACC and y’all, insist that no team is good enough ( when there are no other power houses to solicit) Clemson, Florida St and perhaps NC will bolt to the Big 10 or SEC. Both conferences will have the money to help with the smaller buy outs that will be required at that point and then The ACC is dead. You guys will be found belted in that preverbial plane because you refuse to acknowledge it was crashing. Your tombstones will read “West Virginia just didn’t bring enough and whose Baylor” or “We were comfortable waiting in our seats”. That’s what I mean about some people don’t need parachutes.

and BTW when you say buy season tickets, get more merchandise, contribute more, that’s exactly what would happen to the conference if we had more fans, which are brought by admitting bigger schools.

Technut1990, I appreciate your posts but, judging from the length, you've got to be retired? No?

 

[bobongo]

Technut1990, I appreciate your posts but, judging from the length, you've got to be retired? No?

You wouldn't believe how fast he can knock out a 10-paragraph post. I couldn't even hope to keep up with him on that other forum... ;-)

 

[Technut1990]

Technut1990, I appreciate your posts but, judging from the length, you've got to be retired? No?

yep, it’s the price y’all pay for my spare time. Kids are grown, wife still works. I stay as busy as possible. Yard work, preparing the house for sale, cleaned the garage, cook supper, roam Home Depot/Lowe’s, visit my mother, fish, etc. it’s a hard life I lead. The bad thing about it is that I can do all of that with my phone nearby which means I’m alert to ALL your posts and available for instant response. Truthfully I’ve become an addict. I’ve always been verbose, it’s a flaw I guess but I think I’ve learned it’s a necessity in my former job. Saying in detail what you think or want eventually makes it easier.

 

[Technut1990]

You wouldn't believe how fast he can knock out a 10-paragraph post. I couldn't even hope to keep up with him on that other forum... ;-)

Bobongo, when I’m arguing with you it’s a strategy. Overwhelm and wear you down . What was it called in Iraq, shock and awe ?

in case y’all can’t tell ve been accused of being stubborn but then again I’m an only child.

 

[Technut1990]

WVU and Baylor are going to jump the ACC from $32M to around $100-$150M a year in media money? Holy crap that's funny.

who said that ?

 

[bobongo]

who said that ?

That's what I was wondering.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

That's what I was wondering.

I think the person posting was suggesting that adding WV in no way makes up any revenue ground with conferences like the SEC or the B1G.

But I could be wrong.

 

[croberts]

Interesting that a Kansas senator wants the DOJ to investigate ESPN for their involvement in the move to the SEC.
Grab the popcorn !

 

[Technut1990]

I have not argued that the ACC should just do nothing forever. Adding WVU right now will not add significant money to the ACC TV contract. Because of that, adding WVU right now, will REDUCE the money distributed by the ACC to every team. The gap will get bigger, not smaller. You seem to believe that the choices are either add WVU within a few weeks, or do nothing for 15 years. Many people have pointed out reasons not to add WVU, but I haven't seen one single person who has said not to add WVU because the ACC should sit still for 15 more years.

You are stuck on trying to catch up with the SEC by playing their game. No school that the ACC will add can match the SEC's TX, OKlahoma addition. ND, Penn State would probably match, but I do not see that happening. Why should the ACC be limited to doing nothing or adding some desperation teams? If the SEC is trying to take over all of P5 football, then the other P5 conferences should work together to prevent that. You say that not adding teams is being "comfortable waiting in our seats". I say that adding WVU at the moment is exactly the same thing. It won't prevent the SEC from having a larger media contract. It won't prevent Clemson from noticing the money discrepancy. It won't prevent the SEC from trying to poach teams from the ACC. Your plan of desperation moves would put the ACC in the exact same "comfortable waiting in our seats" situation. Don't play the SEC's game, take a fight directly to them instead.

I’ll admit my long post are probably hard to focus on but y’all keep saying that I’m arguing to only add WV, right now - immediately in hopes that they save the conference. I’ve never said that at all. I’ve consistently said we need to add 4-6 schools that are bigger and bring more fans. That’s it, that’s all I’ve said. Although I have gotten stuck on the singular focus some of y’all have against WV and I am confused on what you guys propose we do after both the SEC and BIg 10 sign new billion dollar TV deals and The PAC 12 and remaining Big 12 sign a cooperative scheduling agreement which will solicit a billion dollar TV deal. Truthfully some of you guys are the oddity, most sports talk shows I listen to or watch warn that the ACC has to preempt the other conferences in soliciting schools or the already slim pickings will be even slimmer. Y’all think we are behind now ?

future TV/streaming deals

SEC @ 62 million per team, 10 years = 620 million PER TEAM

Big 10 @ 60 million per team, 10 years = 600 million PER TEAM

ACC stuck at high end of 32 million per team over same period = 10 years = 320 million PER TEAM

if the PAC 12 and Big 10 get together it’s at least a 40 million per team TV deal per year = 400 million

 

[Technut1990]

I think the person posting was suggesting that adding WV in no way makes up any revenue ground with conferences like the SEC or the B1G.

But I could be wrong.

nah I get it but it’s yet another misrepresentation of my argument. We will never catch the SEC even if we get ND but we don’t have to fall 300 million per team behind either.

 

[Technut1990]

Interesting that a Kansas senator wants the DOJ to investigate ESPN for their involvement in the move to the SEC.
Grab the popcorn !

im seeing reports all over the place that KU wants in the big 10, if that happens the investigation the senator wants will go away.

 

[bobongo]

I think the person posting was suggesting that adding WV in no way makes up any revenue ground with conferences like the SEC or the B1G.

By making a gross exaggeration and erecting a straw man.

 

[RonJohn]

I’ll admit my long post are probably hard to focus on but y’all keep saying that I’m arguing to only add WV, right now - immediately in hopes that they save the conference. I’ve never said that at all. I’ve consistently said we need to add 4-6 schools that are bigger and bring more fans. That’s it, that’s all I’ve said. Although I have gotten stuck on the singular focus some of y’all have against WV and I am confused on what you guys propose we do after both the SEC and BIg 10 sign new billion dollar TV deals and The PAC 12 and remaining Big 12 sign a cooperative scheduling agreement which will solicit a billion dollar TV deal. Truthfully some of you guys are the oddity, most sports talk shows I listen to or watch warn that the ACC has to preempt the other conferences in soliciting schools or the already slim pickings will be even slimmer. Y’all think we are behind now ?

future TV/streaming deals

SEC @ 62 million per team, 10 years = 620 million PER TEAM

Big 10 @ 60 million per team, 10 years = 600 million PER TEAM

ACC stuck at high end of 32 million per team over same period = 10 years = 320 million PER TEAM

if the PAC 12 and Big 10 get together it’s at least a 40 million per team TV deal per year = 400 million

I know the ACC is behind now. However, adding WVU, UCF, Tulsa, and Cincinnati will not help to catch up. (See I added more schools so you can't brush off my reply a "simply adding WVU".) Adding 18 more middle of the road schools will not catch up with the SEC. It might get the total conference earnings closer, but the per school earnings will go way down. If the ACC adds a school that cannot provide at least $32 million in media revenue, then the revenue per ACC team goes down. WVU will not add $32 million in media revenue. Cincinnati might be able to add $32 million in media revenue. UCH will not. Tulsa will not.

I think that your solution of quickly adding mediocre teams before all the mediocre teams are gone is the same level of sitting still as doing nothing. Work with the Pac12, Big10, and Big12 or AAC. Get four 16 team conferences with agreements to leave the NCAA and form their own organization. Have a "national" championship in that organization that has schools in every region of the country. Exclude the SEC. If you want to beat the SEC, you can't do it by taking the same actions the SEC takes, but more weakly.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

im seeing reports all over the place that KU wants in the big 10, if that happens the investigation the senator wants will go away.

Supposed inside sources say Kansas is in the B1G.

 

[RonJohn]

Expanding my idea of getting the Big10, Pac12, ACC, and AAC to separate from the NCAA and form their own organization (If KU and ISU go to the Big10, then the Big12 is no longer a conference): Get each conference to 16 teams. Split the 16 teams in each conference to 4 divisions. Play 11 regular season games. The 12th game would be either a conference semifinal for the division champs, or a consolation game for the other 12 teams giving them another game and an extra shot to become bowl eligible (if bowls are still around). After the semifinals, play the conference championship game. The four conference champions would play in the "National CFP".

There would be TV money for the conferences. There would be TV money for the conference playoffs. There would be TV money for the "National CFP". It would force the SEC to do something different. Then there would be extra money and extra marketing if ESPN got one of the CFPs and another media network got the other. There would probably have to be some kind of a merger or agreement with the SEC later, but the other conferences could do it from a position of strength and not just capitulate to whatever the SEC wants.

 

[Pointer]

yep, it’s the price y’all pay for my spare time. Kids are grown, wife still works. I stay as busy as possible. Yard work, preparing the house for sale, cleaned the garage, cook supper, roam Home Depot/Lowe’s, visit my mother, fish, etc. it’s a hard life I lead. The bad thing about it is that I can do all of that with my phone nearby which means I’m alert to ALL your posts and available for instant response. Truthfully I’ve become an addict. I’ve always been verbose, it’s a flaw I guess but I think I’ve learned it’s a necessity in my former job. Saying in detail what you think or want eventually makes it easier.

Fishing! You're doing it correctly. Hope you're going for striper on the Chattahoochee if you're in Atlanta

 

[Technut1990]

Fishing! You're doing it correctly. Hope you're going for striper on the Chattahoochee if you're in Atlanta

largemouth, crappie and bluegill and catfish on farm ponds south of Atlanta and along the Ocmulgee. can’t wait for trout season in the mountains though ! Interesting thing though, I’ve gotten into herping . There isn’t a spot around any pond or lake that dosent have an assortment of snakes. Rat snakes, copperheads, ring necks, racers. I want to find a cane break but I’m not sure I have the guts to grab it. As long as I’m outside and peaceful it’s all good though.

 

[Technut1990]

I know the ACC is behind now. However, adding WVU, UCF, Tulsa, and Cincinnati will not help to catch up. (See I added more schools so you can't brush off my reply a "simply adding WVU".) Adding 18 more middle of the road schools will not catch up with the SEC. It might get the total conference earnings closer, but the per school earnings will go way down. If the ACC adds a school that cannot provide at least $32 million in media revenue, then the revenue per ACC team goes down. WVU will not add $32 million in media revenue. Cincinnati might be able to add $32 million in media revenue. UCH will not. Tulsa will not.

I think that your solution of quickly adding mediocre teams before all the mediocre teams are gone is the same level of sitting still as doing nothing. Work with the Pac12, Big10, and Big12 or AAC. Get four 16 team conferences with agreements to leave the NCAA and form their own organization. Have a "national" championship in that organization that has schools in every region of the country. Exclude the SEC. If you want to beat the SEC, you can't do it by taking the same actions the SEC takes, but more weakly.

not against that at all but to me you just said add more teams. I know that’s not your words but joining other conferences has the same net effect. The ACC won’t be sitting there passively If they are associating with other conference. I don’t actually think it would work though. As soon as The ACC, Pac 12, Big 10, AAC and remaining Big 12 unite then the faster Clemson, Fla State, USC, Ohio St, Penn St and so on join the richer SEC for their super top 64 or 50 or whatever.

anyway, different viewpoints are a good thing, no point arguing over it

The positive about all this is that Bobongo is agreeing with me. If you’ve seen our arguments on other subjects you would feel like y’all accomplished something