ESPN: Too Negative at Georgia Tech?

dressedcheeseside

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,665
It has been my experience as a coach that really good teams tend to get "luckier" than mediocre teams more often than not because they either have better athletes or do a better job of being in the correct position to make that lucky play.
1luck
noun\ˈlək\
: the things that happen to a person because of chance : the accidental way things happen without being planned
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
I hear ya dabuzz....good teams more often take advantage of their good breaks, I agree. But did you pay attention to Aubie last year? That UGA 4th down tip drill TD pass was not the only crazy lucky play they had.
I agree that it was lucky. But let's remember that they put themselves in position to make the game winning play by being within striking distance at the end of the game.

Same thing with that ending to the Alabama game. It was a lucky return but they had played Bama to a tie to that point and also the coach was smart enough to put a returner back there just in case.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
And we have lost some close games on unlucky plays IMO....depends on what side of the coin you are sitting on. There have been plenty of close games we have also won on lucky plays through the years. CJ @ Clemson comes to mind. You saying we only won becuase we were better? I actually think Clemson was the better overall team. Just my opinion...I'm happy we got that win. Was a damn fun game to watch no doubt.
 

Whiskey_Clear

Banned
Messages
10,487
Very simple. We really haven't been that good as a team nor do we have better athletes than most of our opposition.
LOL...are you referring to the CPJ era only? We have played at a slight talent deficit from our competition for my entire 41 years in existence. Was true for Curry, Ross, Lewis, O'leary, Chan, and now CPJ. O'leary said once in a preseason interview that he could name at least 2 teams on the schedule with superior talent. He refused to name which two teams it was. Was little doubt one of em was UGA. He managed pretty well against the mutts despite the talent differential. That is what all of our HCs face, damn near every year. (caveat, I think we had more talent than UGA in 90 and 2009...but that is about it). What we have to have a a hc who can maximize the talent we can lure to the institute and then maximize that talent to its fullest through their careers. Not agruing CPJ needs to do better against VPI, Miami, Clemson, and UGA, he does....But don't pretend we are suddenly lacking talent due to CPJ. It aint nothing new.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
And we have lost some close games on unlucky plays IMO....depends on what side of the coin you are sitting on. There have been plenty of close games we have also won on lucky plays through the years. CJ @ Clemson comes to mind. You saying we only won becuase we were better? I actually think Clemson was the better overall team. Just my opinion...I'm happy we got that win. Was a damn fun game to watch no doubt.
No. I think we got lucky that the ball was snapped on the ground instead of to the punter. But at that point, we had the best athlete on the field and he made a play.

That's my point. Luck plays happen for you and against you all the time. Whether or not you're able to capitalize on them is a different story.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
But don't pretend we are suddenly lacking talent due to CPJ. It aint nothing new.
I've been a GT fan since I started school there in 1984 as well so I am intimately familiar with the challenges that a GT coach faces. However, I would contend that the number of players who are being drafted to the NFL under CPJ is far fewer than under any of the coaches since I became a fan...with the possible exception of Bill Lewis.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,268
The problem in either case is that we start with our conclusion and then build our facts around it. I happen to believe CPJ is one of the better coaches around. Therefore it is easier for me to site extenuating circumstances or, as some would have it, excuses. On the other side if someone has concluded that he is not a good coach then the fill find excuses or mitigating circumstances to explain whatever successes he has had. As a result these conversations never go anywhere and no one really has their mind changed.
 

Northeast Stinger

Helluva Engineer
Messages
4,268
And not that anyone cares, but recruiting has been a struggle at Tech for, by my count, at least the last 50 years. Have we gotten some good players along the way, of course we have. But Tech has not been able to sustain good recruiting year after year since the 50s to mid 60's. There is more than enough circumstantial evidence that the reason Dodd retired early is that he saw the sea change happening in college football and no longer had the will to stay and resist it.
 

Atomic Jacket

Banned
Messages
238
You are factually wrong. GT has averaged a top 20 O (F/+) over CPJ's tenure, even over the last three years. Name another "mediocre" team that can say that about O or D.

Any team will gladly allow another team to have a better offense, so long as it has the common decency to lose. Tech may have won some statistics, but in terms of winning and losing, it has been mediocre.
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
Any team will gladly allow another team to have a better offense, so long as it has the common decency to lose. Tech may have won some statistics, but in terms of winning and losing, it has been mediocre.

I conceded that our win-loss record is mediocre. I was challenging your assertion that GT's claims of being just on the verge or the expectation of being better is no different than any other mediocre team.

If it is true that "Any team will gladly allow another team to have a better offense, so long as it has the common decency to lose," then you should be able to find plenty other mediocre teams that have averaged top 20 offenses (or on the flip side defenses) over the last 3, 6 years. If you can't find such teams, then you should either be man enough to admit you were wrong in your earlier comment. Otherwise, you seem to just be a troll.
 

daBuzz

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
965
I conceded that our win-loss record is mediocre. I was challenging your assertion that GT's claims of being just on the verge or the expectation of being better is no different than any other mediocre team.

If it is true that "Any team will gladly allow another team to have a better offense, so long as it has the common decency to lose," then you should be able to find plenty other mediocre teams that have averaged top 20 offenses (or on the flip side defenses) over the last 3, 6 years. If you can't find such teams, then you should either be man enough to admit you were wrong in your earlier comment. Otherwise, you seem to just be a troll.
A quick search on ESPN shows the following for 2013 that I consider mediocre or worse, yet were in the top 20 offenses:
Link


#6. Fresno State
#8. Marshall
#13. Colorado State
#15. Bowling Green
#17. Arizona State
#20. Old Dominion

For what it's worth, Tech is 44 on that list, so you're probably defining top 20 offense by a different stat. What stat are you using?
 

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
12,967
A quick search on ESPN shows the following for 2013 that I consider mediocre or worse, yet were in the top 20 offenses:
Link


#6. Fresno State
#8. Marshall
#13. Colorado State
#15. Bowling Green
#17. Arizona State
#20. Old Dominion

For what it's worth, Tech is 44 on that list, so you're probably defining top 20 offense by a different stat. What stat are you using?

My earlier post made clear that I was referring t0 (F/+) offense not total offense. I don't think stats that don't consider strength of schedule to be the best way to judge an offense.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/feiplus

Also, I was looking at averages over the last 3 and last 6 years rather than just one year.
 

forensicbuzz

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,667
Location
North Shore, Chicago
I've been a GT fan since I started school there in 1984 as well so I am intimately familiar with the challenges that a GT coach faces. However, I would contend that the number of players who are being drafted to the NFL under CPJ is far fewer than under any of the coaches since I became a fan...with the possible exception of Bill Lewis.
I don't know...we've tended to have between 2-4 players drafted since I've followed Tech (mid 80's). There were many years no one was drafted, but on average, I'd say 2-3 per draft. (too lazy to actually look it up)

Now if you want to start including UFA's as well, that may be a different argument.
 
Last edited:

Atomic Jacket

Banned
Messages
238
I conceded that our win-loss record is mediocre. I was challenging your assertion that GT's claims of being just on the verge or the expectation of being better is no different than any other mediocre team.

Win-loss is all that matters when it comes to defining a team as mediocre. But Tech is no different than any other mediocre team. A big play here or there, a mistake, a penalty, dropped pass, or injury here or there. Every mediocre team has opportunities where the season could have been completely different had just a few of those things gone their way. The point is that mediocre teams just aren't able to overcome those setbacks. But when you focus in on one team, you lose perspective and think that your team is unique and that it has just had a few setbacks, that it was so close, whereas other mediocre teams are deeply rooted in the middle of the pack and are right where they deserve. Not true. It's about the same for everyone in the middle.
 
Top