Dodd on the quick kick

[1939hotmagic]

Here's an obscure but interesting bit of video.

The legendary Bud Wilkinson did 14-minute "Inside Football" programs back in the '50s; in this one, concerning punt returns and quick kicks for the first 10 minutes, the discussion re quick kicks starts about the 6:30 point. At the 7:45 point, the segment turns to Dodd and Tech. Dodd shows how to do the quick kick, and there's a video clip of Tech vs SMU, with Tech quick-kicking out of the T formation. The snap from center went between the QB's legs directly to the fullback. Very deceptive. (Frankly, that type of direct snap seems, to this mere fan, to be something that would add a new dimension of deception to the QB-under-center offense which Tech now runs. Do that a time or two the first couple of possessions (not for quick kicks, but for running plays or even a version of the old halfback run-pass option play) and I can't help but believe that aggressive, load-up-the-box defenses we saw this season just might be a wee bit less aggressive. But, I'm no coach.)

Anyway, enjoy this bit of genuinely old-school football with a little bit of Tech flavor to it:

 

[Towaliga]

Very interesting video. I always knew Dodd was a master of the quick kick, but I didn't realize that he often had the running back do it. I just assumed he had the QB drop back and kick.

Although I think it would keep the defense off balance, can you imagine the outcry from some of the fans (especially the CPJ haters) if Coach were to call one of these? They'd be saying he had given up on making a first down and didn't trust the offense. Having said that, I also don't think CPJ would call it. He always thinks he can make the first down, no matter what.

 

[danny daniel]

Very interesting video. I always knew Dodd was a master of the quick kick, but I didn't realize that he often had the running back do it. I just assumed he had the QB drop back and kick.

Although I think it would keep the defense off balance, can you imagine the outcry from some of the fans (especially the CPJ haters) if Coach were to call one of these? They'd be saying he had given up on making a first down and didn't trust the offense. Having said that, I also don't think CPJ would call it. He always thinks he can make the first down, no matter what.

Yeah. But not just about CPJ or Dodd. Today it's a different time and a much different game. In Dodd's time the offense did not have the athletes to score often and from anywhere on the field. Defense dominated the game. Field position meant more than the number of O possessions. Quick kick made sense in Dodd's time but generally makes no sense in today's game. I could see a situation whereby a team had a dominating D and such a poor error proned O that a quick kick would get you some field position and avoid another bad O mistake. Not likely for a CPJ team.

 

[1939hotmagic]

Agreed, the game is drastically different in this era, and CPJ would never call a quick kick; however, it seems to me that the direct snap between the QB's legs, to the B-back, would be an intriguing and potentially useful and deceptive twist to employ on offensive plays other than a quick kick.

 

[Skeptic]

Agreed, the game is drastically different in this era, and CPJ would never call a quick kick; however, it seems to me that the direct snap between the QB's legs, to the B-back, would be an intriguing and potentially useful and deceptive twist to employ on offensive plays other than a quick kick.

Johnson calling for a quick kick with our defense would be like handing Clyde Barrow a Uzi and daring him to try something.

 

[1939hotmagic]

Johnson calling for a quick kick with our defense would be like handing Clyde Barrow a Uzi and daring him to try something.

Agreed, but again, the quick kick stuff is strictly a bit of history to enjoy; what intrigues me far more is the notion of exploiting that particular direct snap approach within Tech's offensive scheme, for plays other than a quick kick.

 

[Fatmike91]

That is interesting, particularly with speed at Bback.

/

 

[Skeptic]

Agreed, but again, the quick kick stuff is strictly a bit of history to enjoy; what intrigues me far more is the notion of exploiting that particular direct snap approach within Tech's offensive scheme, for plays other than a quick kick.

I am not sure but I believe that in the days of Dodd he could practice as much as he wanted. That is a very difficult snap to pull off, to a back very close to the LOS. More likely I could see the QB snap and a quick pitch to the Bback or A back who could, i suppose, rugby kick it. But we have tried having one of the Abacks, former HS QBs, pass, and it has been ugly. I personally appreciate the fly sweep, but there ain't no way to get there out of the spread option.

 

[zhavenor]

Yeah. But not just about CPJ or Dodd. Today it's a different time and a much different game. In Dodd's time the offense did not have the athletes to score often and from anywhere on the field. Defense dominated the game. Field position meant more than the number of O possessions. Quick kick made sense in Dodd's time but generally makes no sense in today's game. I could see a situation whereby a team had a dominating D and such a poor error proned O that a quick kick would get you some field position and avoid another bad O mistake. Not likely for a CPJ team.

You're forgetting the most important point. The players played both ways because they had too. It's a lot of energy to move the ball 90 yds down the field mostly running and at any time there could be a fumble or a pick. You look at rugby, where football came from, and there are a lot of punts when the defense gets the ball in their own 22 meters.

 

[Skeptic]

You're forgetting the most important point. The players played both ways because they had too. It's a lot of energy to move the ball 90 yds down the field mostly running and at any time there could be a fumble or a pick. You look at rugby, where football came from, and there are a lot of punts when the defense gets the ball in their own 22 meters.

I don't know the dates but much of Dodd's career was 2-platoon. Was it 1951 he had six All-Americans because of two units? The end to platooning was meant to keep the factories from destroying what was left of college football by stacking all the blue chippers on two units. Really wasn't about energy, whatnot. The powerhouses were beginning to get all the best for offense, all the best for defense, and the leavings weren't all that good, at least in depth.

 

[1939hotmagic]

Until 1941, one-platoon football was the rule; from 1941 to 1953, unlimited substitution was allowed. From 1954 through 1964, it was back to one-platoon, with only one player allowed to be substituted between plays. After the '64 season, it's been unlimited substitution allowed.

 

[augustabuzz]

Holding was illegal back in Dodd's day. That's the biggest difference in today's game. Your (OP) observation is intriguing to me.

 

[alagold]

Here's an obscure but interesting bit of video.

The legendary Bud Wilkinson did 14-minute "Inside Football" programs back in the '50s; in this one, concerning punt returns and quick kicks for the first 10 minutes, the discussion re quick kicks starts about the 6:30 point. At the 7:45 point, the segment turns to Dodd and Tech. Dodd shows how to do the quick kick, and there's a video clip of Tech vs SMU, with Tech quick-kicking out of the T formation. The snap from center went between the QB's legs directly to the fullback. Very deceptive. (Frankly, that type of direct snap seems, to this mere fan, to be something that would add a new dimension of deception to the QB-under-center offense which Tech now runs. Do that a time or two the first couple of possessions (not for quick kicks, but for running plays or even a version of the old halfback run-pass option play) and I can't help but believe that aggressive, load-up-the-box defenses we saw this season just might be a wee bit less aggressive. But, I'm no coach.)

Anyway, enjoy this bit of genuinely old-school football with a little bit of Tech flavor to it:

39,
the idea of a direct hike to bback I also have thought about for several yrs- I would love to see what could be done with that

 

[65Jacket]

The one platoon rule was not based on allowing on just one player being substituted per play. It was based on the fact that a player who started a quarter could only reinter the lineup one time in that quarter if he went out. That permitted substitution of a new unit, the 2nd string, during the quarter, and then the first unit could reinter once in the same quarter. Therefore, you saw two units play in a game, but they both played both ways. LSU won a national championship in 1959 using three units: the white team(1st string), the go team( a unit of players with offensive talent), and the Chinese Bandits ( a famous unit of defensive layers).
In the very late 50s, the rule was changed to allow you to substitute a wildcard, who was a defensive played to replace the QB when they went on defense. This allowed talented passers to play, when in the past the QB were usually more talented defensively than offensively. Don Toner, who made the interception to seal Tech's victory over Alabama in 1962 was the wildcard. He played defense and Lothridge played offense. All others played both ways.

 

[Whiskey_Clear]

Dodd's quick kicks infuriated fans at times. If message boards had been around then you would have seen some fire coach Dodd threads.

 

[DaddyBill]

Coach Dodd would also have his team punt on 3rd down when he wanted to flip the field. Can you imagine a team doing that is this era????

 

[awbuzz]

Fans on blog/forum sites would be in melt down.

 

[zhavenor]

Coach Dodd would also have his team punt on 3rd down when he wanted to flip the field. Can you imagine a team doing that is this era????

If you had a 3rd and 30 it would not be that bad an idea.

 

[1939hotmagic]

39,
the idea of a direct hike to bback I also have thought about for several yrs- I would love to see what could be done with that

Sufficiently inspired, I looked through some of my old ('40s to '70s) football books; a lesser-known but successful coach at (then-) Arkansas State named "Frosty" England, from the mid-40s to 1953, was one of the early adopters of the T formation, going 48-22-9 in eight seasons, the last three highly successful, among the small-college leaders nationally in rushing and scoring. England wrote a couple of books on the "T" and quite a few articles as well. (England was hired by Toledo, but retired from football due to heart/health concerns after only a couple of years there.)

Sure enough, one of the "series" England used was the "direct snap to the fullback" series, in the T formation, from which he had 10+ plays. The snap went between the QB's legs to the fullback, as you saw in Tech quick-kick video clip above. But, the deception didn't end there; for some plays, England fused the direct snap to the FB with an old single-wing ploy, the buck lateral series; for example, the snap would go to the FB, who might then "buck" -- i.e., dive -- into the line, but immediately before hitting the line, the FB would then hand off the ball to the QB, who then might run, pass, or lateral to someone else. Deception layered upon deception.

[The buck-lateral series was made most famous, and was most effective, by the powerful Minnesota single-wing teams of Bernie Bierman in the 1930s. In the '40s, Michigan used the "buck lateral" series very effectively under another coaching giant, Fritz Crisler; in the 1948 Rose Bowl, Michigan embarrassed Southern Cal 49-0 with the Wolverines' offensive "magicians," and the following season Michigan was a national champion.]

As deceptive as Johnson's scheme can be -- and when it's humming along, it doesn't need any more bells and whistles -- it's fun to think of what could be done if these forgotten measures were added to the offensive mix.

 

[Skeptic]

Until 1941, one-platoon football was the rule; from 1941 to 1953, unlimited substitution was allowed. From 1954 through 1964, it was back to one-platoon, with only one player allowed to be substituted between plays. After the '64 season, it's been unlimited substitution allowed.

Thanks.

Dodd's quick kicks infuriated fans at times. If message boards had been around then you would have seen some fire coach Dodd threads.

To which, I gather from what I read about him, he would have responded with a soft dismissal without even lifting his head.