Techfan02
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PSSSSS. Curry is slower than my grandmother.
A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons
- Thread starter year_of_the_swarm
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alagold
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Plus their entrance requirements are not the highest also.--per US News/World Rept 3 yrs ago that noticed.
ilovetheoption
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I'm not sure I'm welcome here right now, but I'm going to say the same thing I've been saying for 2 years:
When you hired Geoff Collins, you decided that you were going to run an experiment.
You ran an experiment with Paul Johnson, and that experiment was "because of the academic requirements of GT, we don't believe we're ever going to be able to recruit well enough to win by doing the same stuff everybody else does x's and o's wise, so we're going to do something completely different, and see if we can make people beat us left handed".
After 10 years, when he retired, you decided you wanted to run a DIFFERENT experiment, which was "You know what? I'm not ABSOLUTELY sold that GT can't recruit well enough to win that way, so lets get a staff of really really good recruiters, and see if we can make that happen".
So...fine...if you're going to hire a guy who is NOT particularly innovative in terms of x's and o's, but can recruit his balls off, then you give him 4 years to recruit his balls off, and have an entire program full of guys he recruited, and you just shut up and eat losses until then.
The reason is, when you don't do anything special scheme wise, and you just plan to win on having better jimmies and joes, you're going to get your *** kicked until you do, and when two guys are running the exact same scheme, a 21 year old is going to do it better than a 19 year old. When you win is when you have YOUR 21 year olds against THEIR 21 year olds, and yours are more talented, because they were higher recruited, and you landed them because you have a coach that can recruit well.
So basically, my point is GEOFF COLLINS IS WHO WE THOUGH HE IS. He's a slicky-boy recruiter who is nothing special with a play-sheet, and if you're going to win with him, it's likely going to be in a couple years. The downside is that you're going to suck for a while. The upside is that if it works, it's a SUPER sustainable model, because recruiting builds on itself.
When you hire a geoff collins type, you commit for 4 years, and you have to be willing to hear no evil and see no evil in the meantime.
It might suck, because you might get through 4 years, and realize that you were right in the first place, and GT really CAN'T consistently recruit well enough to win playing the same game everybody else does, but you have to give it those 4 years and REALLY find out. At least that way, you know one way or the other, really.
When you hired Geoff Collins, you decided that you were going to run an experiment.
You ran an experiment with Paul Johnson, and that experiment was "because of the academic requirements of GT, we don't believe we're ever going to be able to recruit well enough to win by doing the same stuff everybody else does x's and o's wise, so we're going to do something completely different, and see if we can make people beat us left handed".
After 10 years, when he retired, you decided you wanted to run a DIFFERENT experiment, which was "You know what? I'm not ABSOLUTELY sold that GT can't recruit well enough to win that way, so lets get a staff of really really good recruiters, and see if we can make that happen".
So...fine...if you're going to hire a guy who is NOT particularly innovative in terms of x's and o's, but can recruit his balls off, then you give him 4 years to recruit his balls off, and have an entire program full of guys he recruited, and you just shut up and eat losses until then.
The reason is, when you don't do anything special scheme wise, and you just plan to win on having better jimmies and joes, you're going to get your *** kicked until you do, and when two guys are running the exact same scheme, a 21 year old is going to do it better than a 19 year old. When you win is when you have YOUR 21 year olds against THEIR 21 year olds, and yours are more talented, because they were higher recruited, and you landed them because you have a coach that can recruit well.
So basically, my point is GEOFF COLLINS IS WHO WE THOUGH HE IS. He's a slicky-boy recruiter who is nothing special with a play-sheet, and if you're going to win with him, it's likely going to be in a couple years. The downside is that you're going to suck for a while. The upside is that if it works, it's a SUPER sustainable model, because recruiting builds on itself.
When you hire a geoff collins type, you commit for 4 years, and you have to be willing to hear no evil and see no evil in the meantime.
It might suck, because you might get through 4 years, and realize that you were right in the first place, and GT really CAN'T consistently recruit well enough to win playing the same game everybody else does, but you have to give it those 4 years and REALLY find out. At least that way, you know one way or the other, really.
LibertyTurns
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@ilovetheoption Great post. We must be patient even though we’re not off to a good start.
GTFLETCH
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Good Point.... I guess I need to suck it up and not expect to win for a few more years... The program has been set back..IIWII
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Don't know why you would think that you were not welcome here. This is one of the best posts I have read in a long time and the "outsider perspective" gives you credibility. this should be required reading by all GT fans.
BTW, iirc, you weren't thrilled initially when your team made a coaching change a few years back with the guy brought in. Has that perspective changed? If so, why? Thanks.
ilovetheoption
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*this is me making the horselips sigh while I try to figure out the right way to answer this*
So, I'm not a fan of Bronco, personally. I think he's largely full of crap with his whole "JV Tony Robbins self help guru who audited some B-school classes at BYU and now I like to throw out jargon that I don't REALLY understand because that's my brand" schtick wears really really thin.
That said, he's clearly nothing worse than a competent defensive coach. The problem is, he might be clearly nothing BETTER than a competent defensive coach, either.
Maybe at UVa that's enough, though. Maybe "have a team full of try-hard guys, build the ENTIRE offense around the talent of the QB, and win 6 or 7 games a year, with the occasional good year in a weak conference and the occasional bad year in a strong conference" is what we at UVa want after the London years.
Maybe we didn't realize how good we had it with Welsh, and we got too big for our britches, and we'll take a guy who is basically a poor man's George Welsh with a smile.
I wouldn't send my son to play for him, but he's clearly a step up from what we've had recently.
I know this is rambling, but basically, his personality REALLY rubs me the wrong way, and I think his methods are largely corny and pointless, but he can coach defense, and in years when we have a really good QB, we can win quite a few games, so IIWII.
(secretly, I'm hoping he wins the mormon lottery or something and we hire Monken and he brings Woody with him, lol)
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I have a neighbor who played for Coach Welsh and was part of the great 41-38 game up there when Uva was ranked #1. He speaks very highly of the guy. I also live in Tennessee so I know plenty of UT guys who think they are doing a "40 year walk in the desert" penance for getting rid of Fulmer. Some of them admit to agreeing with the decison at the time.
I don't know how serious you are about Woody and Monken but I think our "historic transition" is the final nail in the coffin for your style of football in the P5 group of schools. This may be fair or not, but perception is reality however and no AD in the foreseeable future is going to roll the dice in such a big way.
GoJacketsInRaleigh
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How long are you Paul Johnson slappies going to ruin every thread? He quit. He's gone. Yes, the fanbase was divided under him. Are you guys intent and keeping it divided? Or is there some "I told you so" waiting to be made in the future?
GTBaseball
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2015 rights?
Ibeeballin
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@ilovetheoption love having you around. Quick question: Do you think CPJ/Monken model is sustainable?
BleedGoldNWhite21
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I’m pretty sure there’s no need to wait for the future to say I told you so. Geoff lost to an FCS team running the offense that Geoff was too good for.
Pointer
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Nice try. How long will you CGC apologists blame the state of suck on CPJ?
MGTfan
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We had one and we were regressing so fast under him after the 2014 season that he retired.
MGTfan
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Part of the blame is on him considering our roster had very little talent when he left.
jgtengineer
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No we weren't we had one **** year plagued by injuries, bounced back to a 9 win season with a bowl win then we had a 5-6 year where we were competitive in every game but 2 and loss some close ones, then a 7-6 year that he retired.
Johnson's only problem in 17 and 18 was not having a QB to truly replace Thomas's arm (due to Ratliffe's injury and jordan's injury and johnson's injuries.) But the truth was there were three rule changes in the chamber for the 2019 season that likely got passed if Johnson had not retired that basically removed the ability to play that style of offense. Strangely as soon as johnson retired those rule changes were no longer talked about (because no one wants to make rules that only target the service academies.)
Pointer
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If that helps you sleep at night
ibeattetris
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Look at the state of college spending from 2012-2018 and realize that the AD at the time refused to give CPJ more than 2 recruiting staff (when our contemporaries were in the double digits). Just like in recruiting, the effects take years to show their head. It’s not a surprise that GT began to decline under the previous AD, and it’s almost criminal how much people blame CPJ for things out of his control. TS and GC have a mess to clean up, but imo, the mess is much closer to 80% previous AD and 20% players recruited for the wrong offense.
just my opinion
Coloradojacket
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So 2016 was what, an abortion? Or even 2018, where we hung....66 on Louisville.
billga99
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For Collins coming in with a defensive coordinator background, he has already lost more games by 30 points than Chan Gailey did in 6 years and is almost even with Paul Johnson in 11 years. Getting beat is difficult enough without getting blown out so frequently. I realize GT is playing a much faster offense now but only 2 of the 13 losses have been by less than 10 points. At some point, they have got to start playing one possession games. Both Gailey and Johnson had numerous one possession wins and losses which means in most of those games they had a chance until the end. I do think this is as much coaching and schemes as player issues. My big fear now is where do the wins come from the rest of the season?