A Thread to Rehash GT HC Comparisons

[Coloradojacket]

In the seventies Clemson always travelled to Atlanta.
One would have laughed then, if you had told them that tigers would become an elite program with one of the best coaching staffs.
Yes, it's achievable.

Funny thing about the ACC. From 1992-till roughly 2006 it was mostly FSU. Clemson moves up after in 2009 through 2020. With a three year span of FSU in the middle. Now what made them what they are.....ok a simple answer. If you look at those teams....they had a really great QB. Football now is all about the QB. Taj Boyd was Clemson 2011, although we beat them. Then FSU Jameous Winston. Then Clemson had Deshaun Watson followed by Trevor.

And if you look at our most successful years....Shawn Jones, Joe Hamilton, Nesbitt 2009, and JT5.
No matter what the scheme, you still have to have the QB to run it.
Do you remember the 2018 Clemson game when Kelly was starting we were in the game with Clemson. Then they put Lawrence in and it was over.

 

[4shotB]

If we want an honest answer to that question, we first need to define top program. In my opinion, GT fans need to decide where they want the floor of the program to be and then fund the infrastructure to make it happen.

I think we are generally content with the floor established during Gailey's tenure here. We just don't want that to be the ceiling too like it was in that case. Add to that wins against Uga 30 - 40% of the time (even some in the ATL for heaven's sake) and/or the occasional CPJ "one off" year and we would be content for the most part. I believe this is realistic and do-able.

ETA: by CPJ's "one off" seasons I am referring of course to the positive ones.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Funny thing about the ACC. From 1992-till roughly 2006 it was mostly FSU. Clemson moves up after in 2009 through 2020. With a three year span of FSU in the middle. Now what made them what they are.....ok a simple answer. If you look at those teams....they had a really great QB. Football now is all about the QB. Taj Boyd was Clemson 2011, although we beat them. Then FSU Jameous Winston. Then Clemson had Deshaun Watson followed by Trevor.

And if you look at our most successful years....Shawn Jones, Joe Hamilton, Nesbitt 2009, and JT5.
No matter what the scheme, you still have to have the QB to run it.
Do you remember the 2018 Clemson game when Kelly was starting we were in the game with Clemson. Then they put Lawrence in and it was over.

Clemson's biggest jump came after the hired DRad and started throwing major cash at the program.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

I think we are generally content with the floor established during Gailey's tenure here. We just don't want that to be the ceiling too like it was in that case. Add to that wins against Uga 30 - 40% of the time (even some in the ATL for heaven's sake) and/or the occasional CPJ "one off" year and we would be content for the most part. I believe this is realistic and do-able.

ETA: by CPJ's "one off" seasons I am referring of course to the positive ones.

I'd believe that if it weren't for the way a large portion of the fanbase treated CPJ's tenure here. 2 fairly historic seasons per GT standards. 5 of his 11 seasons were 8+ wins (only happened once under CCG) and 8 of his 11 were 7+ wins. 2015 was an anomaly and two other 5-6 win seasons, yet we were consistently hearing how we would never get to the next level with him as our coach and/or running the 3O. That tells me that the expectation of a large part (or at least the most vocal part) of our fanbase is to become a routine 10+ win powerhouse based on superior recruiting. While I would love that myself, I just don't know that that is a reasonable expectation unless we change the way we fund our program or schedule OoC opponents.

I do agree that you and are probably seeing eye to eye on expectations, I just don't think we are in the majority.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Clemson's biggest jump came after the hired DRad and started throwing major cash at the program.

So we may see an interesting experiment on this thought. UGA spends at the same level as Clemson. It seems that they are missing a QB this year, although I thought the Bennett kid looked pretty good. Let's see if UGA stays at the same level they have the last three years with Fromm at the helm. It may seem simplistic but as another example, Miami has been a non contender. Let's see what King does for them.

 

[slugboy]

Clemson's biggest jump came after the hired DRad and started throwing major cash at the program.

I think DRad went there after Clemson was already ramping up. He saw what was cooking and jumped.

 

[Coloradojacket]

I'd believe that if it weren't for the way a large portion of the fanbase treated CPJ's tenure here. 2 fairly historic seasons per GT standards. 5 of his 11 seasons were 8+ wins (only happened once under CCG) and 8 of his 11 were 7+ wins. 2015 was an anomaly and two other 5-6 win seasons, yet we were consistently hearing how we would never get to the next level with him as our coach and/or running the 3O. That tells me that the expectation of a large part (or at least the most vocal part) of our fanbase is to become a routine 10+ win powerhouse based on superior recruiting. While I would love that myself, I just don't know that that is a reasonable expectation unless we change the way we fund our program or schedule OoC opponents.

I do agree that you and are probably seeing eye to eye on expectations, I just don't think we are in the majority.

Or change the Academic standards and add more majors....we always seem to forget this.

 

[ibeattetris]

Clemson's biggest jump came after the hired DRad and started throwing major cash at the program.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Let me ask you guys an honest question.... Within all realms of realism, can Georgia Tech be a top program in the ACC? Consistently?

Is that a realistic outcome?

Well it took the triple option and CPJ to win the ACC in 2009 (remember under Chan Gailey lost to freaking Wake Forest) and then again in 2014 CPJ won an OB first OB win since Bobby Dodd.... The problem is CPJ era lost Jeff Monken and Brian Bohanan to head coaching Jobs, lost Charles Kelly to FSU...all three were instrumental in recruiting the kids who made up the 2014 team.

So enter AD TStan who wants to raise 125M by 31 Dec 2020...(BTW AD TStan has done well IMHO) CPJ does not bring in the big Money donors...So here comes Geoff Collins who seems to be a great recruiter... However is coaching record not so great...what happens GT sees an uptick in recruiting and AD TStan AI 2020 has raised 158M by 1 Oct 2020...

I think this should tell us a couple of things..The money is out there and CPJ wasn't getting any of it.. same with the recruits... Also for all the steps forward we have taken with donations and recruiting the inexperience coaching has taken ten steps back. Is Geoff Collins the next Bill Lewis... or will Georgia Tech look like UCF does currently...I am not sure... Can we always hire Jeff Monken, Ken N, Brian Bohanan in 7 years if the Collins era can't win B2B 7 games. So we can at least get back to winning ACC championship and going to Orange Bowls again...Yes

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

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Yep DRad hired in 2012 and straight up from there.

 

[Coloradojacket]

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Is it really Spending....or Something Else for Clemson....Brent Venables Hired 2012.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Or change the Academic standards and add more majors....we always seem to forget this.

That's not likely to happen. Ever. The other two options are actually, IMO, achievable.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Is it really Spending....or Something Else for Clemson....Brent Venables Hired 2012.

Clemson's salary pool for staff is one of the largest in the NCAA. Pay for good help and it tends to stay with you.

 

[ibeattetris]

Is it really Spending....or Something Else for Clemson....Brent Venables Hired 2012.

And when hired in 2012, he had a salary over 2x our current DC.

Money isn't the *only* thing that matters, but it matters a lot. @BCJacket ran a model a few years ago that showed spending was near fully correlated with success.

 

[GTFLETCH]

Is it really Spending....or Something Else for Clemson....Brent Venables Hired 2012.

Look at UCF they have built there program on a Athletic budget worse than Georgia Techs.. It doesn't have to be Spending...while that helps... Recruiting is a huge piece and Collins is showing that he can fill that void for us... As far as coaching goes we are going to have to hope they can all grow into P5 level coaches...

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Look at UCF they have built there program on a Athletic budget worse than Georgia Techs.. It doesn't have to be Spending...while that helps... Recruiting is a huge piece and Collins is showing that he can fill that void for us... As far as coaching goes we are going to have to hope they can all grow into P5 level coaches...

That's not entirely true. In 2018 UCF spent 18.1 million on football, (Link below) which is more than we spent in 2017. They are spending on a par with us. Let that sink in...

"LSU's expenditures on football eclipsed UCF as well. The Tigers spent $30.1 million on everything from student aid to game guarantees, coaching salaries, recruiting, travel, game expenses and more. UCF's football-related expenses came in at $18.1 million."

LSU Vs. UCF: Comparing Finances

Not only has the Knights conference affiliation outside of the Power 5 kept it from scheduling opponents that would improve its strength of schedule, which in turn has kept the team out of the playoffs, it also keeps the Knights budget much lower than that of programs like LSU.

www.forbes.com

61. Georgia Tech, $17.38 million

Which schools spend the most on college football? Where does Syracuse rank?

A look at which schools spend the most on college football and which spend the least.

www.syracuse.com

 

[Coloradojacket]

That's not entirely true. In 2018 UCF spent 18.1 million on football, (Link below) which is more than we spent in 2017. They are spending on a par with us. Let that sink in...

"LSU's expenditures on football eclipsed UCF as well. The Tigers spent $30.1 million on everything from student aid to game guarantees, coaching salaries, recruiting, travel, game expenses and more. UCF's football-related expenses came in at $18.1 million."

LSU Vs. UCF: Comparing Finances

Not only has the Knights conference affiliation outside of the Power 5 kept it from scheduling opponents that would improve its strength of schedule, which in turn has kept the team out of the playoffs, it also keeps the Knights budget much lower than that of programs like LSU.

www.forbes.com

61. Georgia Tech, $17.38 million

Which schools spend the most on college football? Where does Syracuse rank?

A look at which schools spend the most on college football and which spend the least.

www.syracuse.com

You do know that UCF the largest school in Florida. In fact in the Nation.

 

[Deleted member 2897]

You do know that UCF the largest school in Florida. In fact in the Nation.

Their current enrollment is equal to half the size of our entire living alumni. They have over 150,000 alumni........just in Orlando.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

You do know that UCF the largest school in Florida. In fact in the Nation.

Oh I know that, but it needs to sink in to a large number of the posters here who automatically dismiss UCF simply because they do not play in a power 5 conference.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Oh I know that, but it needs to sink in to a large number of the posters here who automatically dismiss UCF simply because they do not play in a power 5 conference.

I remember when Clemson and Fla St were teams we played for homecoming.