D-Line & coaching going into 2023

bobongo

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I never understand the thought process of “these guys gotta step up“ when you are talking about guys who don’t get snaps. How can you produce if you don‘t get snaps? White was a solid player who produced. He produced because he was in the game. If he had gotten hurt early everyone would be saying he was a transfer who was a bust. We have ballers but only a few can play each snap. It’s like the McCollum thread. McCollum was a best offensive producer because he rarely came off the field. Whoever plays the slot will also produce because the only way you catch a pass is to be targeted on a play. We are losing our 2 starting LB’s. But that doesn’t mean our LB’s will stink next year because we lost 95% of production. If you havent noticed LB’s make tackles by the nature of the position so whoever is there will make tackles. Curry did it for years then Thomas did it. We will be fine. Our 2023 season depends on what we get from our OLine and the QB. That’s it. If we score more points we’ll win more games. Defense matters very little in this era. The top 4 teams in the country had to score 40plus to win so the days of defense are over.
I get your main point, but the first bolded sentence suggests a circular argument. Was McCollum a prolific offensive producer because he rarely came off the field, or did he rarely come off the field because he was our best receiver?

The second bolded sentence is just false. The fact that offenses are way ahead of defenses in this era does nothing to diminish the importance of a good defense. It's just as important now as it was 60 or 70 years ago. Unless it's a special teams play, defense is exactly half the equation, now as ever.
 

GTNavyNuke

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I get your main point, but the first bolded sentence suggests a circular argument. Was McCollum a prolific offensive producer because he rarely came off the field, or did he rarely come off the field because he was our best receiver?

The second bolded sentence is just false. The fact that offenses are way ahead of defenses in this era does nothing to diminish the importance of a good defense. It's just as important now as it was 60 or 70 years ago. Unless it's a special teams play, defense is exactly half the equation, now as ever.

Given rule changes that favor the offense, not calling holding most of the time and targeting, it's a lot harder to have as good a defense as past years.

I'd guess that for importance to winning games its:
40% offense, 35% defense and 15% special teams.

So all three phases are important, but an explosive O that can also burn clock will be more important. Elite offenses are going to score a lot (> 28) on elite Ds.
 

alagold

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I never understand the thought process of “these guys gotta step up“ when you are talking about guys who don’t get snaps. How can you produce if you don‘t get snaps? White was a solid player who produced. He produced because he was in the game. If he had gotten hurt early everyone would be saying he was a transfer who was a bust. We have ballers but only a few can play each snap. It’s like the McCollum thread. McCollum was a best offensive producer because he rarely came off the field. Whoever plays the slot will also produce because the only way you catch a pass is to be targeted on a play. We are losing our 2 starting LB’s. But that doesn’t mean our LB’s will stink next year because we lost 95% of production. If you havent noticed LB’s make tackles by the nature of the position so whoever is there will make tackles. Curry did it for years then Thomas did it. We will be fine. Our 2023 season depends on what we get from our OLine and the QB. That’s it. If we score more points we’ll win more games. Defense matters very little in this era. The top 4 teams in the country had to score 40plus to win so the days of defense are over.
SJ,
On LBs--yes they were on the field a lot but they got those BIG stats by being PRODUCTIVE.How many tackles next yr are going to be missed if the new LBs don't produce and thus give up more points.The LBs will have stats but are they good enough vs the OFFs of today.
 

slugboy

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Agree a good defense is valuable.

But which team would be favored?
Team 1 with #4 O, #14 D and #25 ST.
Team 2 with #14 O, #4 D and #25 ST.

Could ask the same with FEI.
I watched NCST unable to do anything on offense, and they lost, so I’ll say Team 1.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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I get your main point, but the first bolded sentence suggests a circular argument. Was McCollum a prolific offensive producer because he rarely came off the field, or did he rarely come off the field because he was our best receiver?

The second bolded sentence is just false. The fact that offenses are way ahead of defenses in this era does nothing to diminish the importance of a good defense. It's just as important now as it was 60 or 70 years ago. Unless it's a special teams play, defense is exactly half the equation, now as ever.
I hear you man. McCollum is a very good college receiver. But, we only know that because he got snaps. If he were sitting in the bench at Bama we wouldn’t know he was solid. My entire point is there are a lot of talented players but only a very few ever get consistent snaps. Whoever we have at the slot will put up numbers like McCollum and McGowan did. Neither was a Calvin type who could do the extraordinary. They did what was expected which for us makes them our best player. Hopefully we get back where we expect all our players to make the expected plays. I can still remember GT teams that had 4 WR’s and TE’s who could run routes and catch.

And I use to agree that defense mattered, but it really doesn’t. Offenses tend to stop themselves these days more than the defense stops them. It’s all about out scoring your opponent.
 

Root4GT

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Agree a good defense is valuable.

But which team would be favored?
Team 1 with #4 O, #14 D and #25 ST.
Team 2 with #14 O, #4 D and #25 ST.

Could ask the same with FEI.
Heck if you are that good you will be a top 10 team minimum.
 

bobongo

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7,727
I hear you man. McCollum is a very good college receiver. But, we only know that because he got snaps. If he were sitting in the bench at Bama we wouldn’t know he was solid. My entire point is there are a lot of talented players but only a very few ever get consistent snaps. Whoever we have at the slot will put up numbers like McCollum and McGowan did. Neither was a Calvin type who could do the extraordinary. They did what was expected which for us makes them our best player. Hopefully we get back where we expect all our players to make the expected plays. I can still remember GT teams that had 4 WR’s and TE’s who could run routes and catch.

And I use to agree that defense mattered, but it really doesn’t. Offenses tend to stop themselves these days more than the defense stops them. It’s all about out scoring your opponent.
Agree with your first paragraph entirely.

Disagree with the second. There is a defense and an offense, and both matter equally no matter how many points are scored. There are no exceptions, including the 222-0 game, because if Cumberland College had a defense, they wouldn't have lost by a couple of bucks and change. Defense matters as much today as much as offense did 70 years ago when 7-6 games were commonplace. Offense and defense matter equally, and one being stronger than the other doesn't and can't change that. Otherwise, teams would just cannibalize their defenses, put all their best players on offense, and forget about defense. But they don't, because it's a zero-sum equation.
 

iceeater1969

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I hear you man. McCollum is a very good college receiver. But, we only know that because he got snaps. If he were sitting in the bench at Bama we wouldn’t know he was solid. My entire point is there are a lot of talented players but only a very few ever get consistent snaps. Whoever we have at the slot will put up numbers like McCollum and McGowan did. Neither was a Calvin type who could do the extraordinary. They did what was expected which for us makes them our best player. Hopefully we get back where we expect all our players to make the expected plays. I can still remember GT teams that had 4 WR’s and TE’s who could run routes and catch.

And I use to agree that defense mattered, but it really doesn’t. Offenses tend to stop themselves these days more than the defense stops them. It’s all about out scoring your opponent.
In general you are correct.

But its not a like a indisputable certainty of all ootcome.

Yes a much better offense is better than a much better defense.

For years at gt we generally have sucked defense. We used the bend defense to milk the clock wjile the offense held the ballbin hopes of winning at end. Others have built strong offenses- ACC passing attacks 2021 destroyed our defenses while our offense was simultaneously terrible.

In the real world gt needs to spend $ where we get the most bang for buck. So far economy hire for head coach, improved oc , qb wr coaches have us on track to be better in 23.
 

stinger 1957

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O,D,ST all important, but IMO you cannot have winning CFB unless you can effectively throw the FB on a consistent basis, no matter who you are.
 

iceeater1969

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Very bold move by Key. Better have an ace up his sleeve, they both seemed really solid
Prior to this Key has been soilid on the BASICS (hard practice 1 vs 1, go w freshman qb when Sims stopped, adjust offense when fr injured, getting NIL to keep key sr = imo #7 walton).

This is Key's first very innovative action.
TFG said competition is king but kept coaches that were marginal.
IMO Key will also be tougher w players on scholy (showing they are working like crazy in gym as well as classroom).
 

stinger 1957

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Very bold move by Key. Better have an ace up his sleeve, they both seemed really solid
I'm trusting in Key in this case all the way, always a question in my mind if David Turner came to GT under Collins if something was not quite what it seemed about him, but I definitely noticed better DL play last year and have to give some credit to him. Maybe Key is doing what he said he would do and that is turn over the defense to Thacker and Thacker has a plan and he is now beginning to exercise that plan with the people he wants working with him. Thacker now has the opportunity to establish himself as really good DC, we shall see.
Don't know that I'm right about any of this, but if so I'm excited, we're heading into a truly new era maybe. Something feels right about this to me. But I have to remind myself I liked the Collins hire, so I damn sure can be wrong.
 
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