CPJ's learning curve at GT

[Northeast Stinger]

More about "types" of offensive linemen under CPJ. Here are average sizes of offensive linemen by recruiting class. No numbers have been rounded up.

09 Class -6.3 277
10 Class -6.3 280
11 Class -6.3 286
12 Class -6.3 290
13 Class -6.5 316
14 Class -6.3 282
15 Class -6.4 267

There is no discernible difference between the size of linemen going class by class. There are a few things one may note however. The smaller the number of linemen recruited, usually the bigger average size. The exception to this rule is the 2015 class. Other things to note would be that some of our best offensive linemen over time have not been the tallest or the biggest recruit in their class. By far the biggest recruit was Devine, who has yet to become a starter. Other things of note would be players who were "given" rather generous measurements in high school, of which Shaq Mason comes to mind. Beyond that, if one goes player by player, CPJ seems to be going after one of two types of guys -a guy who has already shown that he can move and out perform the defensive lineman across from him, and guys who are somewhat tall and lanky that show they have a frame that can carry extra weight without losing foot speed.

In terms of overall size, the 2010, 2011 and 2014 classes were virtually the same. Likewise, the 2009 and the 2015 classes were virtually the same. If you are simply going by size.

But my contention is that CPJ can be taken at his word. He wants the biggest linemen he can get but he would rather have a fast, agile lineman over a lumbering lineman, even if the lumbering lineman is bigger.

 

[Skeptic]

This is a really good thread, although I challenge some of the notions published therein. The narrative that I am talking about goes like this: GT is a different place. CPJ didn't know what he was getting into. He has made adjustments to recruiting and the Hill etc. He now has it figured out. We just had a good season. This was our best recruiting class. As a result the program has turned a corner, yada yada yada.

There is little doubt in my mind that CPJ has learned some over recent years, just as we all do in our careers. I do believe GT presents special challenges that other schools don't. On top of that, I am excited about this years class because of what I have seen on the highlight film. However, with all that said, I have a bit of a different view on the passing scene. First and foremost, I believe that the landscape of college football is constantly changing and I don't think for a minute that we have turned some kind of mythical corner as a program. We might be in a stronger position right now, but the need to continue to evolve will always be there. Believing we have turned a corner is the first step to sliding backwards, if you ask me. I want to believe this class is great, but let's be real, until a couple years from now, we really won't know what we've got. The numbers are certainly bigger, but that was driven by attrition in the program more than anything. If you want to feel good about the class, forget about the ranking. Think of it this way, we got on the guys earlier and got them committed earlier and we hung on to them. That tells me the PROCESS was a little more effective. The end product is currently still unknown. That process I speak of, although better this year, won't be good enough in years to come.

As always, the fight to stay near the top will require adaptation, ingenuity, hard work, flexibility, and hunger. It will not be easy to stay where we are. Falling back to the pack is a very real scenario if the first sentence in this paragraph is not adhered to, and may still happen anyway. I like CPJ because he has shown me he has those qualities. In fact, he has always had them. He didn't just grow them two years ago after a couple of mediocre seasons. Even coach doesn't know what things he will be doing in order to compete a couple years from now between the white lines, on the recruiting trail, or in the office. That is what makes it fun.

I was about to say exactly the same thing.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I think the biggest thing learned is the value of and need for more staff in recruiting. I also thing CPJ has changed his target focus a bit, too. When he arrived, he was hell bent on recruiting the state of Georgia. It made sense, it's a talent rich state where he had established roots. He also had the experience of recruiting to the Naval Academy. It's hard to imagine two more different tasks then recruiting for Ga So and Navy.

My guess is that he thought GT was a little of both. With his roots in state and his experience with high academic standards, he could get the best of both worlds: top class students and top class athletes all in one.

I think he learned that recruiting in state is not quite what he thought it would be. I think he learned that character was still something to be recruited and it wasn't a given just because a kid had the minimum entrance requirements. I'm sure character was not something he had to pay much attention to when recruiting Navy. There, it was a given.

I think he learned that finding kids who could get in wasn't the real battle, rather, it was finding kids that could stay in that was the true challenge. Focusing more on the upper end of the academic spectrum has certain advantages and disadvantages, but in the end, it's offers more advantages. I think we just witnessed one big one with the high degree of retention in this most recent signing class.

Having a staff big enough to go where the recruits are is the biggest lesson learned. The distribution of kids with the right mix of traits to succeed at GT, both on the field and off, shifts from year to year. Some years you're in high cotton right in your own backyard. Other years you have to beat the bushes in Timbuktu.

 

[JorgeJonas]

I think the biggest thing learned is the value of and need for more staff in recruiting. I also thing CPJ has changed his target focus a bit, too. When he arrived, he was hell bent on recruiting the state of Georgia. It made sense, it's a talent rich state where he had established roots. He also had the experience of recruiting to the Naval Academy. It's hard to imagine two more different tasks then recruiting for Ga So and Navy.

My guess is that he thought GT was a little of both. With his roots in state and his experience with high academic standards, he could get the best of both worlds: top class students and top class athletes all in one.

I think he learned that recruiting in state is not quite what he thought it would be. I think he learned that character was still something to be recruited and it wasn't a given just because a kid had the minimum entrance requirements. I'm sure character was not something he had to pay much attention to when recruiting Navy. There, it was a given.

I think he learned that finding kids who could get in wasn't the real battle, rather, it was finding kids that could stay in that was the true challenge. Focusing more on the upper end of the academic spectrum has certain advantages and disadvantages, but in the end, it's offers more advantages. I think we just witnessed one big one with the high degree of retention in this most recent signing class.

Having a staff big enough to go where the recruits are is the biggest lesson learned. The distribution of kids with the right mix of traits to succeed at GT, both on the field and off, shifts from year to year. Some years you're in high cotton right in your own backyard. Other years you have to beat the bushes in Timbuktu.

I don't think there was any learning required here. The NCAA had caps on staff who could recruit on and off campus, then removed the cap on on-campus recruiters. Other schools immediately expanded their staffs, while Johnson was denied funding for the position(s) until Bobinski was hired. Once the incremental staff was hired, the recruiting defections all but disappeared.

 

[PBR549]

This is a really good thread, although I challenge some of the notions published therein. The narrative that I am talking about goes like this: GT is a different place. CPJ didn't know what he was getting into. He has made adjustments to recruiting and the Hill etc. He now has it figured out. We just had a good season. This was our best recruiting class. As a result the program has turned a corner, yada yada yada.

There is little doubt in my mind that CPJ has learned some over recent years, just as we all do in our careers. I do believe GT presents special challenges that other schools don't. On top of that, I am excited about this years class because of what I have seen on the highlight film. However, with all that said, I have a bit of a different view on the passing scene. First and foremost, I believe that the landscape of college football is constantly changing and I don't think for a minute that we have turned some kind of mythical corner as a program. We might be in a stronger position right now, but the need to continue to evolve will always be there. Believing we have turned a corner is the first step to sliding backwards, if you ask me. I want to believe this class is great, but let's be real, until a couple years from now, we really won't know what we've got. The numbers are certainly bigger, but that was driven by attrition in the program more than anything. If you want to feel good about the class, forget about the ranking. Think of it this way, we got on the guys earlier and got them committed earlier and we hung on to them. That tells me the PROCESS was a little more effective. The end product is currently still unknown. That process I speak of, although better this year, won't be good enough in years to come.

As always, the fight to stay near the top will require adaptation, ingenuity, hard work, flexibility, and hunger. It will not be easy to stay where we are. Falling back to the pack is a very real scenario if the first sentence in this paragraph is not adhered to, and may still happen anyway. I like CPJ because he has shown me he has those qualities. In fact, he has always had them. He didn't just grow them two years ago after a couple of mediocre seasons. Even coach doesn't know what things he will be doing in order to compete a couple years from now between the white lines, on the recruiting trail, or in the office. That is what makes it fun.

i do think there's merit and being able to get over the hump at a school like ours. i think where we've been set back many times with a coach leaving or getting fired prematurely. i think coach johnson was able to get over the hump last year and hopefully we'll be able to continue that upward trend. at least we are giving ourselves a chance.i think consistency is the biggest factor in our ability to be successful.

 

[Skeptic]

I think the biggest thing learned is the value of and need for more staff in recruiting. I also thing CPJ has changed his target focus a bit, too. When he arrived, he was hell bent on recruiting the state of Georgia. It made sense, it's a talent rich state where he had established roots. He also had the experience of recruiting to the Naval Academy. It's hard to imagine two more different tasks then recruiting for Ga So and Navy.

My guess is that he thought GT was a little of both. With his roots in state and his experience with high academic standards, he could get the best of both worlds: top class students and top class athletes all in one.

I think he learned that recruiting in state is not quite what he thought it would be. I think he learned that character was still something to be recruited and it wasn't a given just because a kid had the minimum entrance requirements. I'm sure character was not something he had to pay much attention to when recruiting Navy. There, it was a given.

I think he learned that finding kids who could get in wasn't the real battle, rather, it was finding kids that could stay in that was the true challenge. Focusing more on the upper end of the academic spectrum has certain advantages and disadvantages, but in the end, it's offers more advantages. I think we just witnessed one big one with the high degree of retention in this most recent signing class.

Having a staff big enough to go where the recruits are is the biggest lesson learned. The distribution of kids with the right mix of traits to succeed at GT, both on the field and off, shifts from year to year. Some years you're in high cotton right in your own backyard. Other years you have to beat the bushes in Timbuktu.

I doubt he had to learn character was required at GT, and that it is more difficult to stay in school at GT than at a military academy. Or, for that matter, that Tech's curriculum is harder. I admire GT's standards, I surely do. But the service academies it is not.

If anything, he probably brought his academy experience to bear at Tech and has, I believe, said that Tech and the Naval Academy were very similar. So that is one part of the curve he didn't have to learn. I think.

 

[iceeater1969]

I think the biggest thing learned is the value of and need for more staff in recruiting. I also thing CPJ has changed his target focus a bit, too. When he arrived, he was hell bent on recruiting the state of Georgia. It made sense, it's a talent rich state where he had established roots. He also had the experience of recruiting to the Naval Academy. It's hard to imagine two more different tasks then recruiting for Ga So and Navy.

My guess is that he thought GT was a little of both. With his roots in state and his experience with high academic standards, he could get the best of both worlds: top class students and top class athletes all in one.

I think he learned that recruiting in state is not quite what he thought it would be. I think he learned that character was still something to be recruited and it wasn't a given just because a kid had the minimum entrance requirements. I'm sure character was not something he had to pay much attention to when recruiting Navy. There, it was a given.

I think he learned that finding kids who could get in wasn't the real battle, rather, it was finding kids that could stay in that was the true challenge. Focusing more on the upper end of the academic spectrum has certain advantages and disadvantages, but in the end, it's offers more advantages. I think we just witnessed one big one with the high degree of retention in this most recent signing class.

Having a staff big enough to go where the recruits are is the biggest lesson learned. The distribution of kids with the right mix of traits to succeed at GT, both on the field and off, shifts from year to year. Some years you're in high cotton right in your own backyard. Other years you have to beat the bushes in Timbuktu.

Worked with Todd Spencer (OL coach a and recruiter) on a kid my son coached in texas( who went on to Purdue) and he confirmed your point of Georgia first and lack of recruiting help. Still trying to get tech to Texas but can't complain about how we have improved in ga, fla, nc, and Tennessee.

I do take issue with the size of the linemen being played. We may have recruited Big ones but by time they saw the field as quick enough they were a lot leaner and had to go low to very low on cut blocks to not be defeated by more physical DL in the big 4. Now we do have athletic big line men and they make bigger movement of DL and hold their blocks longer. Getting to this point required a change in offseason training and a change in the level of quickness required.
In that regard I think coach has made a major change in offseason and during season conditioning and practice methods . I don't know what they are but this past season we were awsome in lack of injuries and in in game stamina. / speed.

 

[Skeptic]

More about "types" of offensive linemen under CPJ. Here are average sizes of offensive linemen by recruiting class. No numbers have been rounded up.

09 Class -6.3 277
10 Class -6.3 280
11 Class -6.3 286
12 Class -6.3 290
13 Class -6.5 316
14 Class -6.3 282
15 Class -6.4 267

There is no discernible difference between the size of linemen going class by class. There are a few things one may note however. The smaller the number of linemen recruited, usually the bigger average size. The exception to this rule is the 2015 class. Other things to note would be that some of our best offensive linemen over time have not been the tallest or the biggest recruit in their class. By far the biggest recruit was Devine, who has yet to become a starter. Other things of note would be players who were "given" rather generous measurements in high school, of which Shaq Mason comes to mind. Beyond that, if one goes player by player, CPJ seems to be going after one of two types of guys -a guy who has already shown that he can move and out perform the defensive lineman across from him, and guys who are somewhat tall and lanky that show they have a frame that can carry extra weight without losing foot speed.

In terms of overall size, the 2010, 2011 and 2014 classes were virtually the same. Likewise, the 2009 and the 2015 classes were virtually the same. If you are simply going by size.

But my contention is that CPJ can be taken at his word. He wants the biggest linemen he can get but he would rather have a fast, agile lineman over a lumbering lineman, even if the lumbering lineman is bigger.

Some interesting numbers there, and like you I don't think Johnson is blowing smoke when he talks likes and wants. Some bigger, some smaller, but almost all athletic. And except for some memorable moments when Thomas has retreated 30 yards or so and run from one side of the field to the other, the routes seem to help him get rid of the ball quicker and negate a lot of pass rush. But, boy, those moments. Sometimes I wonder who wants to do him more damage: those exhausted linemen and linebackers or Johnson, though truth be told he seems remarkably patient with him and for the most part it has all worked out.

 

[InsideLB]

This is a really good thread, although I challenge some of the notions published therein. The narrative that I am talking about goes like this: GT is a different place. CPJ didn't know what he was getting into. He has made adjustments to recruiting and the Hill etc. He now has it figured out. We just had a good season. This was our best recruiting class. As a result the program has turned a corner, yada yada yada.

There is little doubt in my mind that CPJ has learned some over recent years, just as we all do in our careers. I do believe GT presents special challenges that other schools don't. On top of that, I am excited about this years class because of what I have seen on the highlight film. However, with all that said, I have a bit of a different view on the passing scene. First and foremost, I believe that the landscape of college football is constantly changing and I don't think for a minute that we have turned some kind of mythical corner as a program. We might be in a stronger position right now, but the need to continue to evolve will always be there. Believing we have turned a corner is the first step to sliding backwards, if you ask me. I want to believe this class is great, but let's be real, until a couple years from now, we really won't know what we've got. The numbers are certainly bigger, but that was driven by attrition in the program more than anything. If you want to feel good about the class, forget about the ranking. Think of it this way, we got on the guys earlier and got them committed earlier and we hung on to them. That tells me the PROCESS was a little more effective. The end product is currently still unknown. That process I speak of, although better this year, won't be good enough in years to come.

As always, the fight to stay near the top will require adaptation, ingenuity, hard work, flexibility, and hunger. It will not be easy to stay where we are. Falling back to the pack is a very real scenario if the first sentence in this paragraph is not adhered to, and may still happen anyway. I like CPJ because he has shown me he has those qualities. In fact, he has always had them. He didn't just grow them two years ago after a couple of mediocre seasons. Even coach doesn't know what things he will be doing in order to compete a couple years from now between the white lines, on the recruiting trail, or in the office. That is what makes it fun.

I think this is probably pretty accurate and is expressed very well.

To add, with recruiting classes people like to speak in terms of getting good PLAYERS when really what one gets is PROSPECTS.

IMO this latest class has better prospects than Johnson's other classes. Whether these prospects become better college players than in other classes remains to be seen. They will need to physically develop, work hard on their game, stay healthy, stay motivated, make their grades, and perhaps most importantly bond and play with a strong team concept.

Urban Meyer said his team this year was the closest team he's ever had and they play for each other. Sounds a lot like what we heard about our team this year.

To me it is very encouraging to see our team develop this kind of attitude because it is a step towards building culture.

 

[dressedcheeseside]

I think this is probably pretty accurate and is expressed very well.

To add, with recruiting classes people like to speak in terms of getting good PLAYERS when really what one gets is PROSPECTS.

IMO this latest class has better prospects than Johnson's other classes. Whether these prospects become better college players than in other classes remains to be seen. They will need to physically develop, work hard on their game, stay healthy, stay motivated, make their grades, and perhaps most importantly bond and play with a strong team concept.

Urban Meyer said his team this year was the closest team he's ever had and they play for each other. Sounds a lot like what we heard about our team this year.

To me it is very encouraging to see our team develop this kind of attitude because it is a step towards building culture.

To add to this, it has to help recruiting when a bunch of recruits visit during games and see the kind of brotherhood that exists in this program. They can't help but want to be a part of it.