CPJ

AE 87

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Here is an article with quotes from Lou Holtz and Gerry Dinardo. Both won National Championships with the option and both abandoned it in the early 90's. Check out their quotes as to why they quit running it. Pretty straight forward.
http://www.onefootdown.com/2012/8/28/3270651/where-have-all-the-option-teams-gone

Thanks for the link. Under Johnson, the offense still works at this level and contrary to expectations, the recruiting has gotten better. None of the experts in that article discuss how your defense will get worse if you have an option offense, but I guess that's part of what "everybody" else was saying.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Very well said. I will simply add that if I was a scholarship prospect with NFL hopes and I read the posts of many Tech supporters relentlessly arguing that my nfl dreams are far less likely by attending Tech, it might influence me to go elsewhere.
If I was an opposing coach I would use it to my advantage as well.

IMHO there are a couple positions (primarily QB) where CPJ's offense will be a liability to NFL hopes but too often Tech supporters seem to be hyperbolizing this viewpoint to recruiting's detriment.
We really do run down the program in inappropriate ways. Perhaps we should have thread every week that starts with talking about how over 80% of pro football players end up broke and on assistance. Or perhaps we should talk about the over 700 pro ball players who were arrested over the last decade. And then perhaps we should point out that football players who graduate from Tech are successful in the pros and successful in life. A little perspective would keep our conversations rooted in reality. And that reality is favorable to Tech in a resounding way.
 

Northeast Stinger

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Tech has a legitimate shot at having two wide receivers currently on roster that could get drafted. That would make 4 drafted in CPJs tenure and 5 total in the NFL. If any position was most logical to assume a kids pro prospects would suffer at when CPJ came here it was at WR.

If the system is a hindrance at this or that position is very hard to calculate in my view. Given that the logic has been so wrong about the WR position makes me tend to think that "talent will out" without regard to system.
Of course you are right! The recruiting argument burns my britches because it was started as a negative recruiting ploy by other schools, aided and abetted by sports writers who like to think they are insightful and then parroted by disgruntled or marginal Tech fans. Tech fans really ought to be smarter than to carry the water for those who don't care about Tech and love sowing the seeds of dissension in the program.
 

Bruce Wayne

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Whew! I'm clear.



Okay, I'm still good.



Uh-oh! I have been cranky lately. :eek: Bruce? You seeing this, Bruce?


....Bruce.....?


(Seriously, though--the esteemed Mr. Wayne brings a lot of level-headedness to this forum. Thanks, Batman! [Yeah, I know your secret.;)])

Actually, I bet some of the people who have ended up on my ignore list probably do not even deserve to stay there given my "rules" as posters can change attitudes over time and it isn't like everything someone I am ignoring posts will really tick me off.

I really do just find ways to kind of streamline my reading and participation on the site so that I don't lose too much focus on what it is that has me glued to a computer for most of my life right now.

When I say "cranky" I mean really cranky. That's where almost every post and every thread is treated by someone as the perfect place to harp on some favorite complaint or criticism. Actually, I am really derailing this thread b/c of my ignore list comments so better try and stop that now or I will become a crank! :)
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
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Thanks for the link. Under Johnson, the offense still works at this level and contrary to expectations, the recruiting has gotten better. None of the experts in that article discuss how your defense will get worse if you have an option offense, but I guess that's part of what "everybody" else was saying.
Where's the hard proof that recruiting has gotten better? Don't tell me that we are 17th in the rankings because that won't stand. Didn't say that the option makes your defense worse. Said CPJ himself has never had a good defense. Ask any Georgia Southern fan and they will back that up.
 

AE 87

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Where's the hard proof that recruiting has gotten better? Don't tell me that we are 17th in the rankings because that won't stand. Didn't say that the option makes your defense worse. Said CPJ himself has never had a good defense. Ask any Georgia Southern fan and they will back that up.

The article you linked showed the recruiting getting better.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
Wait--are you citing this article to explain why CPJ's outdated option-based offense is losing the recruiting game? Did you read the whole article? The author cI oncludes we've been holding our own in recruit quality, specifically in the QB and RB categories--and have gained ground in the OL, relative to the CCG era.

Pretty straightforward.
That article is from 2012. Since then we have finished 57th, 85th, and 47th in the recruiting rankings. That is not holding our own.
 

AE 87

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Article is from 2012. If finishing 57th, 85th, and 47th in recruiting is getting better, then we have major problems.

I'm not sure whether you read the article or not. It does not use class ranking (which includes class size and compares GT to other schools). It uses average star rankings, and GT's stayed at about where it was in previous years, at ~3*, compared to ~2.7, even at OL which had been closer to 2.2.
 

forrest

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Here is my POV..take it or leave it ad it is sidewalk fan opinion.... My issue with PJ is his lack of class. I do not like how he us constantly dropping the F bomb on the sideline. I do not like his flippant attitude toward the press & fans. I want a HC at Tech that is class.. Period. As far as scheme goes, I want a guy who is defense FIRST. A solid D will allow a mediocre O to succeed. I grew up on GT football & we used to be known for D. I want that back.... I like Roof...I think if PJ can hang on to his job long enough to give Roof time to build a D...I think we will be a force to recon with.
 

nodawgs

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I'm not sure whether you read the article or not. It does not use class ranking (which includes class size and compares GT to other schools). It uses average star rankings, and GT's stayed at about where it was in previous years, at ~3*, compared to ~2.7, even at OL which had been closer to 2.2.
Either the talent level has dropped or Wofford, Tulane, and Georgia Southern have improved dramatically and should be in the ACC.
 

GTpdm

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That article is from 2012. Since then we have finished 57th, 85th, and 47th in the recruiting rankings. That is not holding our own.

Maybe you have a point. Then again, how much of our low recruiting ranks are a result of the media drinking the same "option=doom" kool-aid that you are peddling?

I'm not claiming we've been world-beaters the last few seasons--they have been disappointing years (whether you measure that by win-loss, or by the quality of our recruiting classes). But to claim that our system perpetually dooms us to poor recruiting—right when we are turning the corner and starting to overcome the handicaps that Radakovich placed on our program—is short-sighted and defeatist.

Give our program a chance to fix the damage done by our prior AD, and stop blaming the coach for something that can't be legitimately blamed on "his system".
 

Stinger90

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Where's the hard proof that recruiting has gotten better? Don't tell me that we are 17th in the rankings because that won't stand. Didn't say that the option makes your defense worse. Said CPJ himself has never had a good defense. Ask any Georgia Southern fan and they will back that up.

When was the last time we were at 17th even though it doesn't stand come signing day?

That article is from 2012. Since then we have finished 57th, 85th, and 47th in the recruiting rankings. That is not holding our own.

That may show not holding our own, I agree, but what other school like ours can't say that they haven't had the same problem? Let's see how this class turns out before we can say the same thing. Okay?

Sometimes I wish I could cuss on this board but that's why this one is different. I'd tell a lot of people to stop being a bunch of P's.

One of many reasons I like this board. It is more civil even when we don't see eye-to-eye to compare to others. I like the fact that if someone is not in agreement, that it can be expressed in an adult manner versus the juvenile one line sentence that you normally read.

Anyway, I'm here to learn, understand, agree, disagree, and love my Jackets good or bad.
 

GTNavyNuke

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Sometimes I wish I could cuss on this board but that's why this one is different. I'd tell a lot of people to stop being a bunch of P's.

Thanks. I swear sometimes (ok a lot) but not at people on the board. Just not productive.

Is it me or has the mood darkened a lot since the GSU game? I've thrown away most of my replies because they were dark and added little. I really liked the GSU game as a contest and was confident (maybe foolishly) that we would win. Contrast that with how I felt at the start of the second half of the UGAg where I thought we were going to lose even though we were a couple of scores up. I think this team and CPJ has a chance to give us a positive surprise this year. But I'm not expecting it, just hoping for it. Just like I hope CPJ succeeds in bringing back enthusiasm to the program. When I said earlier that I thought CPJ's fate was tied up in generating enthusiasm for the program, ATL (who is the only other poster during the game chat that I remember also thought we were going to win at the end) said:

Shouldn't he be gone then. I mean we are pretty irrelevant right now in our own city.

He might be if we didn't have a $5M payout this past year and a $2.5M payout at the end of this year. I think it's sad because I don't think we will end up a head and are more likley to just have continued churn in the program. But management change is how others stay in power until it is their time to be fired if the problem isn't fixed. And I don't think there is a better solution out there for GT than the one CPJ is implementing.

I think I'll just take a deep breath and make sure I do my best to enjoy the VT game. As long as the team plays hard and doesn't lay down like some of the 2010 / 2011 games, I'll look for the positive side. And I don't think that is in their DNA (or CPJ's).
 

Supersizethatorder-mutt

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Thanks. I swear sometimes (ok a lot) but not at people on the board. Just not productive.

Is it me or has the mood darkened a lot since the GSU game? I've thrown away most of my replies because they were dark and added little. I really liked the GSU game as a contest and was confident (maybe foolishly) that we would win. Contrast that with how I felt at the start of the second half of the UGAg where I thought we were going to lose even though we were a couple of scores up. I think this team and CPJ has a chance to give us a positive surprise this year. But I'm not expecting it, just hoping for it. Just like I hope CPJ succeeds in bringing back enthusiasm to the program. When I said earlier that I thought CPJ's fate was tied up in generating enthusiasm for the program, ATL (who is the only other poster during the game chat that I remember also thought we were going to win at the end) said:



He might be if we didn't have a $5M payout this past year and a $2.5M payout at the end of this year. I think it's sad because I don't think we will end up a head and are more likley to just have continued churn in the program. But management change is how others stay in power until it is their time to be fired if the problem isn't fixed. And I don't think there is a better solution out there for GT than the one CPJ is implementing.

I think I'll just take a deep breath and make sure I do my best to enjoy the VT game. As long as the team plays hard and doesn't lay down like some of the 2010 / 2011 games, I'll look for the positive side. And I don't think that is in their DNA (or CPJ's).

I agree. And how has changing coaches every 5 or 6 years in the past worked out for us? That's why we are in the position that some claim we are in now.
 

augustabuzz

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Here is my POV..take it or leave it ad it is sidewalk fan opinion.... My issue with PJ is his lack of class. I do not like how he us constantly dropping the F bomb on the sideline. I do not like his flippant attitude toward the press & fans. I want a HC at Tech that is class.. Period. As far as scheme goes, I want a guy who is defense FIRST. A solid D will allow a mediocre O to succeed. I grew up on GT football & we used to be known for D. I want that back.... I like Roof...I think if PJ can hang on to his job long enough to give Roof time to build a D...I think we will be a force to recon with.
"Run forrest! Run!" ;)
 

AE 87

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Either the talent level has dropped or Wofford, Tulane, and Georgia Southern have improved dramatically and should be in the ACC.

Thanks. I think this post clarifies why we may talk past each other at times. I would never reduce performance to a single factor like talent. I think coaching and execution are also contributing factors.
 
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