CPJ

Animal02

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Thanks to everyone for the reasonable replies. I think it seems we all agree that CPJ is our coach and we all seem to support our team winning which seems obvious but was not so clear on Saturday. Call me crazy but my money is on the Jackets Saturday. I still feel good about this team.

I think it will be a nail biter type game......with a celebratory couple of shots after it is over ;)
 

AlabamaBuzz

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Heard this over and over....it does have an impact due to the coaches from other teams saying, "playing against that O won't get you ready for the NFL." I know this is not true, but the kids hear it over and over. I am excited about those 2, but we need many more for some to pan out.
 

Stinger90

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To all the haters

I don't care...
 
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Thanks to everyone for the reasonable replies. I think it seems we all agree that CPJ is our coach and we all seem to support our team winning which seems obvious but was not so clear on Saturday. Call me crazy but my money is on the Jackets Saturday. I still feel good about this team.

You are crazier than crazy. We get blown out each of the next 3 games.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
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366
I have been a member of the board for almost a year and never posted. The content that is on this board is clearly the best and most positive for GT athletics. However, I was surprised following the GSU game at the harsh tone towards CPJ. I agree that his approach is not always the most endearing, but at the end of the day he deserves credit for getting some positive results. It shocks me the revisionist history we are having about the past. There is a lot of discussion of CPJ putting all the talent on offense and hurting the Defense, this was the exact same argument about O'Leary/Friegen when they were here and the defense struggled. What about the 1999 GT/UGA game in which should have won easily, but the defense struggled that day and gave up 48 points - yes a big interception in the end zone during OT, but we were up big and almost gave it away in spite of Joe Ham heroics. Who was the DC that day? Was O'Leary at fault for that performance.

CPJ is not perfect, but the GT recruiting environment is not perfect either. I believe that CPJ does struggle to get athletes, but in reality hasn't that been the case for a long time. Sure we get a strong class every once in awhile but even then it is rarely higher than 15th. The great part for me of being a tech fan is that we compete at a high level and promote more than simply football.

We wanted Gailey gone, now we want Johnson gone - do we just want to be a factory?
Speaking of revisionist history... We were cruising in the game until Marvious Hester fumbled 2 punts and gave UGA favorable field position both times. Still you never felt like we were out of a game when O'Leary was here. Can't say the same for CPJ.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
In my opinion, there are fans that never liked the hire, so they go out of their way to criticize because they want to be able to say "I told you so". These are typically the guys you don't see post much until something goes wrong for GT.
I was in favor of the hire. After the conclusion of year 5, all of the things that we were warned of had come to fruition and a downward trend has been in effect. Took a hard look at things, and arrived at my conclusion. Hope CPJ proves me wrong though.
 

AE 87

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I was in favor of the hire. After the conclusion of year 5, all of the things that we were warned of had come to fruition and a downward trend has been in effect. Took a hard look at things, and arrived at my conclusion. Hope CPJ proves me wrong though.

To what things warned of are you referring.
 

nodawgs

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
366
To what things warned of are you referring.
1) Recruiting taking a hit, 2) CPJ has never had a good defense.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't think it matters what offense you play in, if you can play, the NFL will take you. However, recruits don't see it that way and we get negatively recruited against even more because of it. The Bback should be a RBs dream, but the hand on the ground = Fullback to 17-18 year olds. Fisher Dewberry was quoted as saying "if we had Reggie Bush and some of those other guys, no one would ever be able to beat us, but the problem is that none of those players want to play in this system". Oklahoma, Texas, and many of the big boys quit running the wishbone because they were losing recruits.

As for CPJ never having a good defense, it doesn't make sense to me. He should have good defenses with the ball control system we run. I honestly have no idea why. The only thing that I can think of is negative recruiting there as well. I remember Cutcliffe telling a recruit that he would never get better facing that offense everyday in practice. That's crap BTW, as I know that the 1 offense and the 1 defense only face each other in the spring and fall camp. Doesn't matter if it's crap though if recruits are falling for it.

I could speculate that CPJ meddles in the defense (Wommack was good before CPJ and good after, Groh won a Super Bowl as a DC) but like I said that would only be pure speculation and unfair to CPJ. I do find it odd that both Wommack and Roof went to 4-2-5 defenses in year 2, although that alone should not equate to poor defenses.
 

TampaGT

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Many people here have talked about the problems we have had in recruiting. With CPJ finally getting more leaway on who they sign and more money being spent on the recruiting dept that he has been asking to have for sometime, I think he deserves that chance to see what he can do with these two improvements. Since we are not a factory school our coach no matter who it is, is going to go thru growing pains. Why go through those growing pains every five or so years. So if you change coaches then everything goes back to square one, that who ever it is will have to show that they can graduate players before having some freedom (not be able take some kids.) Down here in Tampa, USF had an up and coming program fired the HC over a highly questioned action and have been crap since ever after hiring two coaches.
 

AlabamaBuzz

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What do you mean by "his system" when you say, "I believe his system could work well for GT, but only if he could overcome the recruiting disadvantage"? Do you mean his offense? If so, how would you define "working well"? Or do you mean his effect on whatever defensive scheme (we're now on our third) we're using?

I think his system provides an easy target for other teams/coaches, and I believe this impacts both sides of the ball. His offensive system is good enough that it will work with much lesser talent, but the effect on the D side cannot be overcome, and yes, I believe there is an impact, although it is a perceived impact by recruits from what they are told... Most of these guys are ONLY interested in the league, and we are not putting a lot of guys there. JA and DM are the exceptions, not the rule. Yes, TJ is getting a shot because of his size, but he did not play at a very high level when here. The talent on D right now is very low with almost no quality depth whatsoever.
 

AE 87

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1) Recruiting taking a hit, 2) CPJ has never had a good defense.

Let me preface this by saying that I don't think it matters what offense you play in, if you can play, the NFL will take you. However, recruits don't see it that way and we get negatively recruited against even more because of it. The Bback should be a RBs dream, but the hand on the ground = Fullback to 17-18 year olds. Fisher Dewberry was quoted as saying "if we had Reggie Bush and some of those other guys, no one would ever be able to beat us, but the problem is that none of those players want to play in this system". Oklahoma, Texas, and many of the big boys quit running the wishbone because they were losing recruits.

As for CPJ never having a good defense, it doesn't make sense to me. He should have good defenses with the ball control system we run. I honestly have no idea why. The only thing that I can think of is negative recruiting there as well. I remember Cutcliffe telling a recruit that he would never get better facing that offense everyday in practice. That's crap BTW, as I know that the 1 offense and the 1 defense only face each other in the spring and fall camp. Doesn't matter if it's crap though if recruits are falling for it.

I could speculate that CPJ meddles in the defense (Wommack was good before CPJ and good after, Groh won a Super Bowl as a DC) but like I said that would only be pure speculation and unfair to CPJ. I do find it odd that both Wommack and Roof went to 4-2-5 defenses in year 2, although that alone should not equate to poor defenses.

Could you provide any evidence for warnings on those two points? If you want, I suspect that I can find warnings about whether his offensive scheme would work, which you did not include and which has been falsified imo.
 

AE 87

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I think his system provides an easy target for other teams/coaches, and I believe this impacts both sides of the ball. His offensive system is good enough that it will work with much lesser talent, but the effect on the D side cannot be overcome, and yes, I believe there is an impact, although it is a perceived impact by recruits from what they are told... Most of these guys are ONLY interested in the league, and we are not putting a lot of guys there. JA and DM are the exceptions, not the rule. Yes, TJ is getting a shot because of his size, but he did not play at a very high level when here. The talent on D right now is very low with almost no quality depth whatsoever.

You aren't really answering my questions directly which makes it difficult to follow. What evidence do you have that our recruiting has fallen off due to the system?
 

Bruce Wayne

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Like all coaches eventually too many losses with the right combination of losses will get you fired. It is the bottom line in the business. I tend to think that sort of thing takes care of itself and that the fan of the program (I am definitely talking about college here) shouldn't have too much influence into when an AD makes that decision. I don't mind their voicing strong dissatisfaction with losses though as long as I don't think it is done in a manner which is counter-productive, especially on a site frequented by potential recruits and their families. They are the future of the program no matter who the current coach is so I really value more reserve online than anywhere else. But I think the AD needs to make such a decision in a responsible manner and largely ignore fan passions.
 

Animal02

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Since 2008, we have lost to VT by 3 twice, by 7 twice, by 11 once and won by 5.........
Miami has had Tech's number the last few years, wining by as much as 25,....
we have handled Duke each year....................nothing has changed that significantly to think we will be "blown out" this year.
 

MWBATL

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GT fandom is schizophrenic and faces a dilemma. I believe the changes in college football, most notably things like APR (progress towards a degree) rules have hurt GT, which does not have "jock" majors, much more than the factories. Thus I think it is harder for any coach today to recruit and keep good players in school, compared even to O'Leary's time.

We want to be a big time program and to compete with the big boys. But we also want to complain about our stadium not being loud enough, the students not showing up, the Club Seating not being full and yielding poor optics. Many long time fans are sick of losing every year to the big boys (UGa, Miami, VPI&SU) and will argue that we no longer really compete at that level.

Yet, we are unwilling to do the things that would water down the academics and allow GT to compete at that level again.

I am not saying which way we should go. I see merits in both arguments. But I do tire of those who complain about the realities of life.....

if you wish to retain the academic integrity, then please, do NOT complain about a program which has a diminishing fan base and all the other ramifications of not being able to really compete. Don't complain about fans who don't stand etc

If you wish to be a factory, please do NOT complain about players who get in trouble with the law, or who cannot speak properly, or who choose to leave early for pro careers.

Just pick your poison, and shut up!

Those who believe we can do both are the real problem, imho. Yes, in the past GT could do both, but the world has changed, it is a new reality. Unless the SEC goes semi-pro and leaves the NCAAS to us schools with true student-athletes, we can no longer really effectively compete at the highest levels. GT is trying desperately to do a little of both, and it really isn't working.

if we go 10-2 this year, I will happily eat my words. If we go 7-5 (again) with losses to the usual suspects (again), I think it will reinforce my point.

The players who ARE here deserve our full support and respect, whatever the rest of the debate brings.

PS- I do NOT see this as a CPJ problem in the least. Changing coaches will simply quiet the dilemma for 3-5 years until the real problem becomes obvious to everyone again.
 

collegeballfan

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I still say the main point that drives recruiting at GT is the limited majors (34 in total) and the nature of the majors. You want to be like the often noted Stanford? OK, add Music, Religious Studies, Sociology and Theatre (just to name a few) to the list of majors.
 
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