CPJ really coached a bad game
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ATL1
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From the ajc:
>>>>>I was at the game and here's what I got out of it. First thing I saw was that VA Tech's defense was putting 7-8 men within 3 yards of the LoS on virtually every play and trying to jump the snap count, which is what caused the initial fumble. Having that many guys up close took away the outside game because they already had our edge taken care of at the LoS before any could be blocked by the A-Back. Also, they were set up the blitz Vad from the edge every time he went back for a pass and our A-backs weren't picking anyone up because they were going out for a pass, etc.
After a while, Tech went with a long snap count and drew the off sides, and this backed their defense off, and Tech moved the ball effetively until WE started getting illegal motion calls and became apparent we stopped running the long snaps altogether. After VA Tech recognized that, the Hokies went right back to 7-8 guys within 3 yards from the LoS and pretty much blitzing at will.<<<<<
Basically out coached.
>>>>>I was at the game and here's what I got out of it. First thing I saw was that VA Tech's defense was putting 7-8 men within 3 yards of the LoS on virtually every play and trying to jump the snap count, which is what caused the initial fumble. Having that many guys up close took away the outside game because they already had our edge taken care of at the LoS before any could be blocked by the A-Back. Also, they were set up the blitz Vad from the edge every time he went back for a pass and our A-backs weren't picking anyone up because they were going out for a pass, etc.
After a while, Tech went with a long snap count and drew the off sides, and this backed their defense off, and Tech moved the ball effetively until WE started getting illegal motion calls and became apparent we stopped running the long snaps altogether. After VA Tech recognized that, the Hokies went right back to 7-8 guys within 3 yards from the LoS and pretty much blitzing at will.<<<<<
Basically out coached.
OldJacketFan
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I have had time to calm down a bit from the debacle last night but some things are now just as they were last night. The offensive coaching was well.....offensive. I feel Foster has gotten into CPJ's head and as a result CPJ went back to a comfort zone in his play calling no matter the result. It's hard for me to watch an experienced offensive line make the kind of mistakes and lack of adjustments that went on all night long. A complete lack of a short to immediate passing game despite 8 men within 5 yards of the LOS. I'm not going to rehash points already made on here, most of us know enough to realize what we saw. CPJ is going to have to take a long, introspective look at himself and how he handled this game, I doubt he is going to find anything to like.
The players have to own their share as well, false start penalties, lack of making the proper line calls, lack of making the proper reads in the run game, lack of going after the ball at it's high point. All of these falls on the players. You have to wonder if they were just a little too hyped for this game! When a guard can't down block on a stunting d tackle or a back can't pick up a blitz or a receiver doesn't fight for the ball it falls on the players. The players are also going to have to look at themselves and decide where they are going to go with the remainder of the season. Are you going to continue as you did last night or are you going to learn from it and push yourselves harder?
Defensively I saw a lot of things I like, this defense gives me a lot of hope for the future of the season. I know Va Tech had no running game per se but you saw good tackling for the most part, good pressure and push from the linemen and good coverage in the secondary.
Butker and Poole have quality legs and will continue to be assets as the season goes along. Coverage and return teams need work!
All in all this was a game that I didn't expect but I will look to the next couple of weeks and see how the team responds to laying such an egg. This could be a catalyst to a goodseason or it could be a harbinger of more eggs to come, time will tell. It will also determine CPJ's fate as the HC at Tech.
The players have to own their share as well, false start penalties, lack of making the proper line calls, lack of making the proper reads in the run game, lack of going after the ball at it's high point. All of these falls on the players. You have to wonder if they were just a little too hyped for this game! When a guard can't down block on a stunting d tackle or a back can't pick up a blitz or a receiver doesn't fight for the ball it falls on the players. The players are also going to have to look at themselves and decide where they are going to go with the remainder of the season. Are you going to continue as you did last night or are you going to learn from it and push yourselves harder?
Defensively I saw a lot of things I like, this defense gives me a lot of hope for the future of the season. I know Va Tech had no running game per se but you saw good tackling for the most part, good pressure and push from the linemen and good coverage in the secondary.
Butker and Poole have quality legs and will continue to be assets as the season goes along. Coverage and return teams need work!
All in all this was a game that I didn't expect but I will look to the next couple of weeks and see how the team responds to laying such an egg. This could be a catalyst to a goodseason or it could be a harbinger of more eggs to come, time will tell. It will also determine CPJ's fate as the HC at Tech.
ToddM
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I guess my overall issue is with the concept that we got out coached. Dont get me wrong I do feel CPJ got frustrated, a lot like us. But at some point the coaching blame has to stop. A car engine runs because we put gas and oil in it, once it starts sputtering we have to look at it to figure out that the plug is burned or a belt is broken. If we find out what the problem is and we just try to drive it anyway that would be the drivers fault. But if the driver fills the tank, checks the tires, changes the oil and mashes the gas it's not his fault the tire blows out.
We have no idea what adjustments the coaches tried to make, we have no idea what the line was told, what we do know is that after 2 plays in which # 98 jumped the count and crashed between our guard and tackle neither the guard or tackle should have been surprised by the move. Nor should it have been hard for the players to understand that the ball is being snapped on 3 rather than 1. CPJ has no control over that. No more than Beamer was out coached by CPJ when VATECH Missed the field goal or Thomas missed wide open WRs.
Tech's tires were checked and the tank was full, the timing chain broke as we were going down the road. When it broke we had to coast on what energy was built up, CPJ did try to let Vad throw the ball, he threw two picks and WRs were nonchalant in taking the ball at its highest point. I would have had absolutely no confidence that that line could have done anything right after the first quarter I would have felt very limited in what I could have called. Players going left when they should go right, line blocking out when the play is a option pitch I mean damn could they do anything right ? Even the long pass to Godhigh was an answered prayer. Vad was about to be plowed under because the B back failed to pick up the rush and he just chunked it off his back foot.
This will turn into a coaching issue if the car doesn't get pulled into the shop and fixed, until then my thought is that the players failed at what they have been practicing since what , August 1st ? And in fact what most of them have been doing for 4-5 years. When they failed to run and block out of sets that are suppose to be their strengths it ain't the drivers fault, when they go on 1 rather than the called count it ain't CPJs fault. Players with this experience really shouldn't have to be told some of this stuff. Hey dumbass the guy is walking right between y'all on every play, BLOCK HIM ! Can you count to 3 on your hand ? That's when we are snapping the ball, if you can't do that look at the ball and go when we move it ! That's stuff isn't coaching stuff it's football sense.
I do agree CPJ should have called some slants and in routes, more hot reads but hell, Vad would have been sacked 2 more times at least.
In Bryant's days their level of play would have been met with harshly on the practice field, we wouldn't be blaming the coach for what was obviously a players issues they are 4th and 5th year players and we are blaming the coaching ? Really ?
Ok I'll shut up now
We have no idea what adjustments the coaches tried to make, we have no idea what the line was told, what we do know is that after 2 plays in which # 98 jumped the count and crashed between our guard and tackle neither the guard or tackle should have been surprised by the move. Nor should it have been hard for the players to understand that the ball is being snapped on 3 rather than 1. CPJ has no control over that. No more than Beamer was out coached by CPJ when VATECH Missed the field goal or Thomas missed wide open WRs.
Tech's tires were checked and the tank was full, the timing chain broke as we were going down the road. When it broke we had to coast on what energy was built up, CPJ did try to let Vad throw the ball, he threw two picks and WRs were nonchalant in taking the ball at its highest point. I would have had absolutely no confidence that that line could have done anything right after the first quarter I would have felt very limited in what I could have called. Players going left when they should go right, line blocking out when the play is a option pitch I mean damn could they do anything right ? Even the long pass to Godhigh was an answered prayer. Vad was about to be plowed under because the B back failed to pick up the rush and he just chunked it off his back foot.
This will turn into a coaching issue if the car doesn't get pulled into the shop and fixed, until then my thought is that the players failed at what they have been practicing since what , August 1st ? And in fact what most of them have been doing for 4-5 years. When they failed to run and block out of sets that are suppose to be their strengths it ain't the drivers fault, when they go on 1 rather than the called count it ain't CPJs fault. Players with this experience really shouldn't have to be told some of this stuff. Hey dumbass the guy is walking right between y'all on every play, BLOCK HIM ! Can you count to 3 on your hand ? That's when we are snapping the ball, if you can't do that look at the ball and go when we move it ! That's stuff isn't coaching stuff it's football sense.
I do agree CPJ should have called some slants and in routes, more hot reads but hell, Vad would have been sacked 2 more times at least.
In Bryant's days their level of play would have been met with harshly on the practice field, we wouldn't be blaming the coach for what was obviously a players issues they are 4th and 5th year players and we are blaming the coaching ? Really ?
Ok I'll shut up now
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Pj4prez01
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Easy guys. I may agree with the need to fire the o line coach, but I don't think CPJ was the problem. No play calling is going to work if you can't block the guys in front of you, and Vad was running for his life every time he dropped back. I also don't think the diamond would have worked because of the speed coming from the outside. If tech was going to gain an yardage it was goin to be up the middle. Or maybe a couple screens.
Eric
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If guys are in the fourth and fifth year and have no clue how to switch to a different cadence then that's on the coaches. It wasn't just one player...it was ALL of them!
The team was completely lost last night.
I just watched it again and that is the worse offensive performance I've seen from Tech in a long time. It was ugly.
Bud Foster owns CPJ.
So frustrating seeing these mistakes 6 years in with a experienced group.
The team was completely lost last night.
I just watched it again and that is the worse offensive performance I've seen from Tech in a long time. It was ugly.
Bud Foster owns CPJ.
So frustrating seeing these mistakes 6 years in with a experienced group.
IronJacket7
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Look I am not and I repeat not going to be the one to say hey we lost against VT so fire CPJ. That is a little overboard. CPJ is an amazing coach regardless of how pitiful he coached this one. But, that being said... 1-5 VT 1-4 Miami 1-4 UGA 1-4 Bowl Games... If this year doesn't end with a major turnaround in results then I think CPJ will have to ask himself the same question that was asked to CAG. "You have to look at the body of work since you have been here"...
ToddM
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Just one last thought on what some believe to be a poor coaching job.
Vad, Sims, Watts and others have been quoted as saying that they knew what VT was going to do. Vad said they practiced against the packages they thought would been ran against them and that VT did nothing they didn't expect.
If your team knows what is going to happen and they practice how to counter it hasn't the staff done its job ?
One more thing, no matter who we blame we all agree it was worse than terrible. However this team is 3-1 and if we look at things honestly every team has one or two that they just cannot beat. We are that team for NC, Ga struggles with Vandy and Kentucky for some reason. Clemson can't beat SC. The list goes on.
I am not saying that we should accept this but can't we agree that 3-1 at Tech is better than anything at Wake, Maryland, Duke, Texas even ?
There is a pattern at Tech that is developing. I really don't think it's the coaching anymore. Yes I blamed Gailey and the likes but it's deeper. I don't think we really improve our lot until the admin decides sports is REALLY important. Sometimes it seems that there is more love for football at some major high schools than from the Tech administration. We have the resources, they are put elsewhere. Give the AD another 5 million and create a real atmosphere and expectations would rise.
We argue on this board and are reverent in our dedication but in reality the total of us all wouldn't fill up a high school gym. We have an Ivy league mindset but we are trying to compete on a BCS level. At some point we as fans will have to just live with that or demand real change.
Our program lacks internal drive and that's not on our coaches or players.
Vad, Sims, Watts and others have been quoted as saying that they knew what VT was going to do. Vad said they practiced against the packages they thought would been ran against them and that VT did nothing they didn't expect.
If your team knows what is going to happen and they practice how to counter it hasn't the staff done its job ?
One more thing, no matter who we blame we all agree it was worse than terrible. However this team is 3-1 and if we look at things honestly every team has one or two that they just cannot beat. We are that team for NC, Ga struggles with Vandy and Kentucky for some reason. Clemson can't beat SC. The list goes on.
I am not saying that we should accept this but can't we agree that 3-1 at Tech is better than anything at Wake, Maryland, Duke, Texas even ?
There is a pattern at Tech that is developing. I really don't think it's the coaching anymore. Yes I blamed Gailey and the likes but it's deeper. I don't think we really improve our lot until the admin decides sports is REALLY important. Sometimes it seems that there is more love for football at some major high schools than from the Tech administration. We have the resources, they are put elsewhere. Give the AD another 5 million and create a real atmosphere and expectations would rise.
We argue on this board and are reverent in our dedication but in reality the total of us all wouldn't fill up a high school gym. We have an Ivy league mindset but we are trying to compete on a BCS level. At some point we as fans will have to just live with that or demand real change.
Our program lacks internal drive and that's not on our coaches or players.
dressedcheeseside
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One thing most of us are overlooking is that both teams had veteran lines, our OL vs their DL. Their DL dominated our OL last year. Why did anybody think anything different would happen? If you're dominated in the trenches, good luck trying to run any kind of offense. It doesn't matter what formation/scheme/play you try, if you can't block the guy infront of you, you're sunk.
I guess what absolves CPJ to a degree in my opinion is that that wing-t formation triple option requires the least amount of man-on-man blocking on the line of scrimmage. Hell, the reason a lot of teams run it is because they don't have the beef up front to do some other things. If this OL couldn't block VT's DL on those kinds of plays, idk why anyone thinks they could have on the diamond/pistol/shotgun stuff that requires blocking longer for the rb's to gain yardage and has a handoff mesh-point even further behind the LOS, thus increasing the chances for negative yes/ busted plays. There is a coach that needs to go, and his name is Mike Sewak.
Ibeeballin
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You are right Sir Queso, but there were ways to negate what VT was doing and we didn't appear to even try.
Ibeeballin
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Because in the diamond, our OL is zone block in which at least have to put hands on the DL. In the flex, guys were just diving and hitting nothing
IronJacket7
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+1
This was the worst Tech performance offensively I have seen. Ever. Were not prepared or focused.
daBuzz
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Go back and look at the line splits. We love to run with these wide splits because of the blocking angles it creates.
The problem with the wide splits though is that very talented interior linemen can take advantage of those super-wide splits and jump the gaps and create havoc in the backfield. When we get to goal line offenses, we move to a more "usual" offensive line split but otherwise, we never adjusted those splits all night when they were taking advantage of it.
And for the record, IMO, you could have an NFL offensive line and it wouldn't matter in that situation. If the guy is 2 yards away from you, a zone blocking scheme isn't going to allow you to get to that guy before he can blow past you.
It just seems like CPJ is so stubborn that he is bound and determined to prove that his offense will work if you make the proper adjustments. Well, heck, you can pretty much make that argument about any offense. IF the players adjust properly and execute well, then our offense tends to work.
The problem with the wide splits though is that very talented interior linemen can take advantage of those super-wide splits and jump the gaps and create havoc in the backfield. When we get to goal line offenses, we move to a more "usual" offensive line split but otherwise, we never adjusted those splits all night when they were taking advantage of it.
And for the record, IMO, you could have an NFL offensive line and it wouldn't matter in that situation. If the guy is 2 yards away from you, a zone blocking scheme isn't going to allow you to get to that guy before he can blow past you.
It just seems like CPJ is so stubborn that he is bound and determined to prove that his offense will work if you make the proper adjustments. Well, heck, you can pretty much make that argument about any offense. IF the players adjust properly and execute well, then our offense tends to work.