Conference Realignment

[awbuzz]

They absolutely could sustain it, they'd just have to cut some costs elsewhere.

Title IX and Olympic sports programs is where it'd have to come from (okay, some coaches and AA payroll too).

 

[Vespidae]

Ok… I thought that is what you meant.

I have a slightly different understanding, but I have not poured over documents to get here. I agree that the GOR insures against anyone leaving, but it’s for the WHOLE deal, not triggered by the ACCN.

The order of events (in my mind, fwiw), the ACC reaches a deal with ESPN in which ESPN says they’ll pay X for the current conference, but that’s subject to change if the conference changes. It’s the ACC who says, OK, to insure that the conference doesn’t change and to get top dollar, we’re getting all members to give us their media rights. No one can leave, so there can be no material change to the conference and consequently no change to ESPN agreement. I know there was an additional consideration for ACCN, but I don’t believe the need for GOR would go away if the ACCN were gone.

Just the opposite.

We, ESPN, will pay X for rights. Great! But we want our own network. “That’s expensive. We aren’t crazy about that. What if we build it and the conference dissolves?“ We’ll tie them up with a GOR. Just like everyone but the SEC. “Ok”.

 

[CEB]

Just the opposite.

We, ESPN, will pay X for rights. Great! But we want our own network. “That’s expensive. We aren’t crazy about that. What if we build it and the conference dissolves?“ We’ll tie them up with a GOR. Just like everyone but the SEC. “Ok”.

There was a GOR before there was an ACCN, was there not?

 

[iceeater1969]

That is not my understanding.

My understanding is that the ACC is authorized to make a deal with ESPN or any other media partner.

The concern was that ESPN wasn‘t crazy about the ACCN and questioned its viability as well as the future of the ACC itself. So the GOR ensures that no one leaves the conference during the media rights period, otherwise, ESPN is stuck with a network with already limited programming.

Agree ESPN wasn't crazy about signing up ACC, but ACC was pleased to get half as much as for twice as long.
ESPN believed the ACC would get better and advertisers would keep wanting way more football content. The opposite has happen.

ALSO, THEIR ARE OTHER TV STREAMING AND BETTING ORGANIZATIONS TRYING TO GET CONTENT.

ESPN and others now think so little about the ACC that its UNDEFEATED champ , didn't make the TV playoffs.

Adding the southern left overs of PAC 12 and little SMU , lnly makes it worse.

Too few top teams and way too many rent seekers.

 

[orientalnc]

There was a GOR before there was an ACCN, was there not?

The 1st GOR was signed in 2013, just after Maryland exited the ACC. The ESPN contract was first signed in 2010 and extended in 2016 (at the same time as the new GOR was signed).

 

[57jacket]

ACC announces future neutral-site championships to be held in North Carolina

The ACC announced Thursday that North Carolina cities Charlotte, Greensboro, Cary, Durham and Raleigh will play host to numerous future neutral-site conference championships, as approved by the league’s membership.

www.ajc.com

 

[stinger 1957]

Pete Thamel is about as well connected as anyone out there and his expansion rankings go 1. UNC, 2. UVA, 3/4. FSU and Clemson in some order.

https://www.si.com/fannation/college/cfb-hq/ncaa-football/college-football-expansion-realignment-big-ten-sec-north-carolina-virginia

It may not make sense to some but UVA is going to be a coveted team by the Big 10 and SEC. They will likely land in one or the other.

If they're coveted by the TV money I agree with you. TV folks are absolutely driving this bus, that is where the biggest single source of $ comes from and probably even more so in the future. It's all about the money. If TV folks think UVA will bring them viewership that they can't do with out you're right, but that's not what I understand happens with TV and UVA, but maybe the sources I've received my info from are wrong, could be.

 

[orientalnc]

Agree ESPN wasn't crazy about signing up ACC, but ACC was pleased to get half as much as for twice as long.
ESPN believed the ACC would get better and advertisers would keep wanting way more football content. The opposite has happen.

ALSO, THEIR ARE OTHER TV STREAMING AND BETTING ORGANIZATIONS TRYING TO GET CONTENT.

ESPN and others now think so little about the ACC that its UNDEFEATED champ , didn't make the TV playoffs.

Adding the southern left overs of PAC 12 and little SMU , lnly makes it worse.

Too few top teams and way too many rent seekers.

ESPN did NOT keep FSU out of the CFP. FSU lost it's star player and barely hung on it the ACC championship game against a team that was not highly regarded. I thought FSU should have been in the CFP, but, at season's end, they were not better by any measure than any of the four teams in the playoff.

 

[TooTall]

ACC announces future neutral-site championships to be held in North Carolina

The ACC announced Thursday that North Carolina cities Charlotte, Greensboro, Cary, Durham and Raleigh will play host to numerous future neutral-site conference championships, as approved by the league’s membership.

www.ajc.com

"Neutral"

 

[stinger78]

Title IX and Olympic sports programs is where it'd have to come from (okay, some coaches and AA payroll too).

I’m not talking about the cost in the general budget. I was referring to risk. If they are employees, what happens when a player gets a career-ending injury at “work?”

 

[awbuzz]

ESPN did NOT keep FSU out of the CFP. FSU lost it's star player and barely hung on it the ACC championship game against a team that was not highly regarded. I thought FSU should have been in the CFP, but, at season's end, they were not better by any measure than any of the four teams in the playoff.

100% correct

Yes, it bites, but it is true. JMO

 

[RonJohn]

ESPN did NOT keep FSU out of the CFP. FSU lost it's star player and barely hung on it the ACC championship game against a team that was not highly regarded. I thought FSU should have been in the CFP, but, at season's end, they were not better by any measure than any of the four teams in the playoff.

But then again, neither was Alabama. They needed a miracle to win a game against a 6-6 team.

All of the scenarios you posted earlier, I believe had Alabama out of the playoffs also.

 

[WreckinGT]

“It was known…”
How was it known? Was it not memorialized in agreement form? If this was a hot button issue that conference members had input or concerns about, why was it not documented? If the ACC acted unilaterally against the wishes of members, why did it take two years to end up in a complaint?
Bottom line to me is that the ACC is the sole entity responsible for negotiating with ESPN and as far as I can tell, there is nothing in the GOR that says schools grant their rights with any conditions. If there were conditions, it probably would’ve been prudent to paper said conditions, right?

And to be clear, none of this should be construed in any way as me defending the competency of the ACC leadership

The verbiage in the FSU complaint suggests that there was a contractual trigger for ESPN to exercise the option:

The ACC Network was finally launched in 2019, triggering a requirement that ESPN exercise its Unilateral ESPN Nine-Year Option by 2021. But without any apparent instigation or consideration, the ACC Commissioner gratuitously extended that option exercise deadline for four additional years, or until February 2025.

Presumably this is in the media rights contract.

 

[Vespidae]

There was a GOR before there was an ACCN, was there not?

Yes. ESPN refused to develop it without one.

 

[orientalnc]

Yes. ESPN refused to develop it without one.

I am sure your are correct that the GOR was necessary, but the GOR was already in place. What ESPN insisted was that the GOR be extended out to the end of the rights agreement extension in 2036.

 

[Vespidae]

I am sure your are correct that the GOR was necessary, but the GOR was already in place. What ESPN insisted was that the GOR be extended out to the end of the rights agreement extension in 2036.

Two different reasons. One was because of the original distribution agreement and the second, the extension was due to the ACCN.

 

[CEB]

The verbiage in the FSU complaint suggests that there was a contractual trigger for ESPN to exercise the option:

Presumably this is in the media rights contract.

I don’t disagree, I would presume it is in the ESPN media contract. FSU is not a party to that contract though. That is my point. FSU would not need to be consulted and certainly would not have approval rights over an amendment to it.


When I asked why it was not documented, what I mean is why was it not documented in the GOR? That is the agreement FSU is party too. if it was a critical element for fsu and other institutions signing, why not include in the GOR?

I’ll answer.. fsu is reaching for some evidence of wrongdoing, and there really isn’t anything to point to.

 

[orientalnc]

Two different reasons. One was because of the original distribution agreement and the second, the extension was due to the ACCN.

Agreed. The initial GOR was put in place after Maryland left. But it was in place when the extension of signed in 2016 and ESPN insisted it be extended to the end of the extension. I think we are saying the same thing differently. The GOR was not changed in 2016 other than the end date.

 

[iceeater1969]

ESPN did NOT keep FSU out of the CFP. FSU lost it's star player and barely hung on it the ACC championship game against a team that was not highly regarded. I thought FSU should have been in the CFP, but, at season's end, they were not better by any measure than any of the four teams in the playoff.

Sorry i gave you a tangent to dispute

Premise :
With declining overall revenue, increased competition, and a blah product for most of ACC, ESPN is not giving ACC lots of encouragemt about thier recent actions.

CRICKETS ( silience means the opposite) - just a hint of something positive.
1. "FSU should stay put and continue w the ACC plan for success "
2. "The ACC is a good confsrence and its not right that one injury could keep them out of Playoffs. They could have done at leastas well as our great SEC team."
3." When TEXAS And O U joined SEC we were very proud. Now that Cal and Stanford have joined the ACC , we are sure they will fit in with most of those programs."
4. "The week long roll out of the 24 SEC schedule was good, but we were excited for the way rmthe ACC schedule was rolled out with dignity."
5. "Espn and ACC are umin regular contacr about specific ways we can improve our relatioship."

At the acc network meeting a few years ago espn read us the riot act (with nice words) - schools need to be involved, better coaches, etc) .

Our new Prez has been great and could save the day. Good AD, Coach appears to be good at hiring coaches and players.

Soon ESPN will cut the ACC scrubs off at the knees. They will complement our commiment scholarship and athletics, give us a settlement, and encourage us to reorganize and pat us on back and say look forward to say they want to coopera te with us 100%.

Do you have ndications that ESPN is positive in any way about the future of acc.?

I am hoping to hear something. Once we get labled as walking dead, the ability keep talent will be .....

 

[Vespidae]

Sorry i gave you a tangent to dispute

Premise :
With declining overall revenue, increased competition, and a blah product for most of ACC, ESPN is not giving ACC lots of encouragemt about thier recent actions.

CRICKETS ( silience means the opposite) - just a hint of something positive.
1. "FSU should stay put and continue w the ACC plan for success "
2. "The ACC is a good confsrence and its not right that one injury could keep them out of Playoffs. They could have done at leastas well as our great SEC team."
3." When TEXAS And O U joined SEC we were very proud. Now that Cal and Stanford have joined the ACC , we are sure they will fit in with most of those programs."
4. "The week long roll out of the 24 SEC schedule was good, but we were excited for the way rmthe ACC schedule was rolled out with dignity."
5. "Espn and ACC are umin regular contacr about specific ways we can improve our relatioship."

At the acc network meeting a few years ago espn read us the riot act (with nice words) - schools need to be involved, better coaches, etc) .

Our new Prez has been great and could save the day. Good AD, Coach appears to be good at hiring coaches and players.

Soon ESPN will cut the ACC scrubs off at the knees. They will complement our commiment scholarship and athletics, give us a settlement, and encourage us to reorganize and pat us on back and say look forward to say they want to coopera te with us 100%.

Do you have ndications that ESPN is positive in any way about the future of acc.?

I am hoping to hear something. Once we get labled as walking dead, the ability keep talent will be .....

According to the Raleigh News and Observer, “In discussions with ESPN management, there were uncertainties over whether an ACC channel would be economically viable, due to cord cutting and changing television viewing habits.“

That was more than ten years ago. ESPN TOLD the ACC, .. this is not a good idea.

And now, everyone hates on ESPN for it not being a good idea.

Hilarious.