Conference Realignment

[Northeast Stinger]

Just to make sure I understand you:
One season's results on the field should negate & overule everything else that has happened in 70 years of ACC football.
Correct?

Not negate necessarily, but if a false narrative gets so completely entrenched in “football history” then, yes, anybody would be a fool to blindly trust whatever comes down the pike after that.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

When I'm assigning a grade to a student in my class, this semester, who is on the borderline between an A and B, I damn sure don't look at their transcript and say, "Gee, they've been a consistent C-minus student in all their other classes, in past semesters. I'm going to give them a C because they are obviously a crummy student."

EXACTLY!

You have by analogy succinctly summarized the entire problem with establishing a confirmation bias with the conferences. Everyone gets lazy and forgets to look at each piece of new data with fresh eyes.

 

[orientalnc]

Hard to say.

ESPN total average viewership was 2,210,000 in 2013 when carriage fees were $5.54 a month. Today, ESPN is averaging 2,800,000 in viewership and $9.42 a month in fees. It is second only to two news channels.

I think Disney will take its time to move to streaming. My understanding is that ESPN is losing the least of the major channels on cable because whether someone watches it or not, it still has huge leverage.

I don't think viewership has a direct relationship to revenue. Subs are likely more relevant.

 

[stinger78]

The ACC definitely WAS strong in 1990. It is also easy to see/prove that was an outlier; look at the 37 years before and the 33 years since.

First, provide me your definition of strong. No moving goalposts.

 

[Vespidae]

I don't think viewership has a direct relationship to revenue. Subs are likely more relevant.

I didn't infer that it did. ESPN is the most in demand channel/s on cable. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. It continues to demand a lot of leverage.

 

[yeti92]

When I'm assigning a grade to a student in my class, this semester, who is on the borderline between an A and B, I damn sure don't look at their transcript and say, "Gee, they've been a consistent C-minus student in all their other classes, in past semesters. I'm going to give them a C because they are obviously a crummy student."

That's good, not all teachers are like you unfortunately. I know I had several teachers in school who would pretty much give you the same score every test after the first one so they didn't have to spend too much time grading. I had friends in those classes turn in some good work that only managed a C while another turned in dogcrap and got an A, all based on the teacher's impression from the first test. Unfortunately most teacher's are people, and most people are lazy and will take the easiest way out, which when relating back to the original discussion is just "SEC best ACC sucks" with no analysis whatsoever.

 

[stinger78]

I didn't infer that it did. ESPN is the most in demand channel/s on cable. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. It continues to demand a lot of leverage.

Let’s see where that is in 3-5 years. They let the word out to stiff F$U for better ratings, and they got the college football game shortened to allow more commercials. All is not as good in Bristol as one might think.

 

[Roswellgoldmember]

And, as was pointed out a long time ago in this thread, the SEC only became a top conference after several coaching legends in other conferences retired, Bowden being one of them. This vacuum helped the SEC hype machine but when they really started to dominate was after they merged with ESPN. The bulk of SEC national championships occurred after this.

The continuum could be characterized as: The SEC saying they are good, The sports world believing the SEC is good, The SEC actually being good

I think it was as simple as Saban and Meyer coming to the SEC winning 9 NC's between the 2 of them. Urban Meyers UF team upset a heavily favored Ohio State team in 2007. Bama then proceeded to curb stomp a bunch of teams in the BCS championship games. Through in Cam Newton's Auburn year, and that all time great LSU team and you had a long run of good championship teams from the SEC. As bad as I hate to admit it, the top SEC teams were really good before the narrative took over that the conference as a whole had lapped everyone. Saban also showed the rest of the SEC and all of college football how to leverage their financial advantages with staff augmentation. The ESPN hype helped, and there were several instances where they got the benefit of the doubt but most of it they earned on the field. The benefit of the doubt really only went to Bama and Saban though.

 

[orientalnc]

I didn't infer that it did. ESPN is the most in demand channel/s on cable. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. It continues to demand a lot of leverage.

I agree with you point. Disney, and ESPN, are having serious revenue issues and the cost of television is a huge part of the problem. I think what most people want is a completely unbundled streaming service. I like my YouTube TV plan, but 98% of it I never watch. I hope I am not paying for any of that crap way down the list. My wife would cut ESPN as she never watches games with me unless I am watching App State (her alma mater).

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I think it was as simple as Saban and Meyer coming to the SEC winning 9 NC's between the 2 of them. Urban Meyers UF team upset a heavily favored Ohio State team in 2007. Bama then proceeded to curb stomp a bunch of teams in the BCS championship games. Through in Cam Newton's Auburn year, and that all time great LSU team and you had a long run of good championship teams from the SEC. As bad as I hate to admit it, the top SEC teams were really good before the narrative took over that the conference as a whole had lapped everyone. Saban also showed the rest of the SEC and all of college football how to leverage their financial advantages with staff augmentation. The ESPN hype helped, and there were several instances where they got the benefit of the doubt but most of it they earned on the field. The benefit of the doubt really only went to Bama and Saban though.

Just keep in mind the two things that happened to set things up. 3 great coaches left the game creating the vacuum that Saban could exploit and the marriage to ESPN. The national championships for the SEC didn’t start stacking up until after that. The B1G owned the record prior to that but now the SEC has almost caught up in a very short time.

 

[Vespidae]

Let’s see where that is in 3-5 years. They let the word out to stiff F$U for better ratings, and they got the college football game shortened to allow more commercials. All is not as good in Bristol as one might think.

Did they? The CFB franchised the media rights and approved ESPN’s request to market it as a playoff. In 2014! Hardly news. CFB is making piles of money as a result.

Hypothetical. Cancel the ESPN rights and return all the money in excess of the CFB “Playoff” and see how many schools vote yes. I predict zero. Everyone is better off financially and it’s not even close.

CFB has long ceased to be about sports. It’s programming content now. That’s the reality. And why conferences are realigning.

 

[MWBATL]

I didn't infer that it did. ESPN is the most in demand channel/s on cable. Rumors of its death are greatly exaggerated. It continues to demand a lot of leverage.

Are you suggesting that ESPN is not losing profitability and isn't under pressure to cut costs?

They just had significant staff layoffs just last year.....

 

[Vespidae]

Just keep in mind the two things that happened to set things up. 3 great coaches left the game creating the vacuum that Saban could exploit and the marriage to ESPN. The national championships for the SEC didn’t start stacking up until after that. The B1G owned the record prior to that but now the SEC has almost caught up in a very short time.

Bill Battle, AD at Alabama, said it best. Saban brought an NFL mindset to Alabama. Had Bama hired Rich Rodriguez, that never would have happened.

You can hate the SEC. But they run rings around the ACC in terms of marketing their product. Sony Betamax was a superior product. But VHS outmaneuvered them. Happens all the time.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Bill Battle, AD at Alabama, said it best. Saban brought an NFL mindset to Alabama. Had Bama hired Rich Rodriguez, that never would have happened.

You can hate the SEC. But they run rings around the ACC in terms of marketing their product. Sony Betamax was a superior product. But VHS outmaneuvered them. Happens all the time.

Well, there are things to hate and there are things to admire.

I think I’ve pretty consistently said the ACC needs to take a clue from the SEC about product placement.

 

[Root4GT]

I just listed above where the ACC has usually had at least 3-4 teams ranked at EOY almost every year since 2004. That’s some good teams virtually every year, and that doesn’t include Tech’s two 9-win seasons in 2006 and 2016 when we weren’t ranked. Those were both good teams.

The 2006 team lot the opener to ND and was unranked. It worked its way up to #12 until we were thumped by Clemson on 21 Oct where we dropped to 23rd. Got back up to 16 with 4 straight wins getting to 9-2 then lost to UGA and Wake in the ACC Championship game and fell out of the polls. Then lost to UWV in the bowl game. Ended unranked at 9-5.

 

[Vespidae]

Are you suggesting that ESPN is not losing profitability and isn't under pressure to cut costs?

They just had significant staff layoffs just last year.....

What did I say? No, I didn’t suggest anything of the sort.

ESPN’s average viewership is UP, not down. Its carriage fees are up, not down. It is the most in demand channel across ALL of cable except for 2 news channels.

While cable has less penetration than before, ESPN is losing among the least. That’s market power. And they will work that as long as possible because it’s in their interests to do so.

Does it have to cut cost? Yes. It’s part of a conglomerate that repo quarterly earnings. So? Happens every day. Doesn’t change the fact that will extend the franchise as long as possible.

 

[stinger78]

The 2006 team lot the opener to ND and was unranked. It worked its way up to #12 until we were thumped by Clemson on 21 Oct where we dropped to 23rd. Got back up to 16 with 4 straight wins getting to 9-2 then lost to UGA and Wake in the ACC Championship game and fell out of the polls. Then lost to UWV in the bowl game. Ended unranked at 9-5.

Yes. That was a good team with a very bad OC.

 

[stinger78]

Did they? The CFB franchised the media rights and approved ESPN’s request to market it as a playoff. In 2014! Hardly news. CFB is making piles of money as a result.

Hypothetical. Cancel the ESPN rights and return all the money in excess of the CFB “Playoff” and see how many schools vote yes. I predict zero. Everyone is better off financially and it’s not even close.

CFB has long ceased to be about sports. It’s programming content now. That’s the reality. And why conferences are realigning.

Everyone? Perhaps to varying degrees. But then, that’s the issue here, right. The ground is Not level.

When CFB became a TV commodity, those forces inevitably led to disparity between “properties” contracted to ESPN, FOX, NBC, CBS, etc. All were fighting for the upper hand, driven not by level on-field competition but by which properties could be made to be more valuable. That the fanatic-rich SECheat would gain that position was also inevitable.

Yes, everyone has made money, but the few FAR more than the many. That, my waspish friend, is the problem, and Tech is on the bottom side of that.

But hey, we made some money so shut up and be happy!

 

[Root4GT]

First, provide me your definition of strong. No moving goalposts.

My view of 1990. GT obviously was elite. Clemson was very good at 10-2. UVA was a paper tiger, They tanked after we beat them ending 8-4. Maryland was next at 6-5. Two good teams in a year where no conference was great. Independents FSU, Miami, ND and Penn State were all very good teams.

As said by others Miami didn't hold up as an elite team once they joined the ACC. FSU total dominance of the ACC really did hurt the league's perception.

 

[Vespidae]

Everyone? Perhaps to varying degrees. But then, that’s the issue here, right. The ground is Not level.

Look at every bowl. All of them payout more. Like I said, ask everyone to return the excess payout and see how many do. Everyone loves to hate ESPN but not enough to say so financially. Let Tech go to the B1G. Think Fox isn’t going to do the same?