Conference Realignment

[Northeast Stinger]

The best things to happen to the SEC to get them to where they are today.

ESPN contract
Pete Carroll leaving college football
Tom Osborn retiring
Bobby Bowden retiring

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I came to accept some time ago that there are folks on this board who are blinded by the SEC hype. Arguing with them and using facts does no good. They are true believers. I gave up arguing about it.

Some people are easily brainwashed. The top teams in the SEC are good but the whole conference is no better than any others

 

[orientalnc]

FSU's record in the 1st nine years in the ACC was 99-11-1 (70-2). So OOC they were 29-9-1. The losses from 1992 through 2000 were to #2 Miami, #2 Notre Dame, #13 Miami, #24 UVA & #3 Florida in 1995, #3 Florida in 1996, #10 Florida in 1997, NC State & #1 Tennessee in 1998, undefeated NC in 1999, #7 Miami & #1 Oklahoma in 2000. They were not just dominating ACC teams. They only lost to elite teams (except the two losses in the ACC).

I also wondered, and looked it up, who did FSU beat in those 29 OOC wins. In 1992 they beat #6 Florida & #11 Nebraska & unranked Tulane; in 1993 they beat #3 Miami, #7 Florida, #2 Nebraska & unranked Kansas; in 1994 they beat unranked Notre Dame, tied #4 Florida, then beat #5 Florida in the Sugar Bowl; in 1995 they beat unranked UCF and unranked Miami then beat #6 Notre Dame in the Orange Bowl; in 1996 they beat #6 Miami, #25 Southern Miss, and #1 Florida; in 1997 they beat #23 USC, unranked and #9 Ohio State (they also beat three ranked ACC teams); in 1998 it was #14 Texas A&M, #18 USC, unranked Miami, & #4 Florida; in 1999 it was unranked Louisiana Tech, #19 Miami, #3 Florida & #2 Virginia Tech; in 2000 it unranked BYU, unranked Louisville, #4 Florida.

One thing that is obvious with this is that FSU was beating ranked teams frequently during this stretch. It's not like they were losing to good teams and beating the weaklings. They played a tough OOC schedule that no combination of ACC teams could match. So, comparing the 70-2 record to the 29-9-1 record doesn't make logical sense.

 

[Richard7125]

Some people are easily brainwashed. The top teams in the SEC are good but the whole conference is no better than any others

View attachment 15636

"The top teams in the SEC are good but the whole conference is no better than any others."

Lol. This is pretty much what everyone on this board is saying. And next year they are adding the two best teams from the Big12. I’m not sure why people have such a hard time understanding this will add two more top teams to the SEC.

 

[orientalnc]

And next year they are adding the two best teams from the Big12.

This was true to some extent last year, but those two have been up and down for quite a while. Certainly they are the most followed teams.

 

[Root4GT]

I also wondered, and looked it up, who did FSU beat in those 29 OOC wins. In 1992 they beat #6 Florida & #11 Nebraska & unranked Tulane; in 1993 they beat #3 Miami, #7 Florida, #2 Nebraska & unranked Kansas; in 1994 they beat unranked Notre Dame, tied #4 Florida, then beat #5 Florida in the Sugar Bowl; in 1995 they beat unranked UCF and unranked Miami then beat #6 Notre Dame in the Orange Bowl; in 1996 they beat #6 Miami, #25 Southern Miss, and #1 Florida; in 1997 they beat #23 USC, unranked and #9 Ohio State (they also beat three ranked ACC teams); in 1998 it was #14 Texas A&M, #18 USC, unranked Miami, & #4 Florida; in 1999 it was unranked Louisiana Tech, #19 Miami, #3 Florida & #2 Virginia Tech; in 2000 it unranked BYU, unranked Louisville, #4 Florida.

One thing that is obvious with this is that FSU was beating ranked teams frequently during this stretch. It's not like they were losing to good teams and beating the weaklings. They played a tough OOC schedule that no combination of ACC teams could match. So, comparing the 70-2 record to the 29-9-1 record doesn't make logical sense.

What it means is that the ACC was not a good football conference during FSU's hayday. Obviously there were no ACC team's capable of compositing with those FSU teams. Oh wait, that's SEC hype, it cant be true.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

Everyone seems to forget when the ACC added VT, FSU and Miami. The ACC was the best conference in the country. Funny how perceptions change.

Texas has been the biggest under-performer compared to spend. They will probably continue to do that, this season not withstanding.

Who's to say you could see FSU stay where they are, Miami is back ( ), Clemson gets back into the top 5 and Tech gets back into the discussion as a solid top 20 team.

Way too much doom and gloom by the vocal minority

 

[orientalnc]

What it means is that the ACC was not a good football conference during FSU's hayday. Obviously there were no ACC team's capable of compositing with those FSU teams. Oh wait, that's SEC hype, it cant be true.

FSU was dominant in those years, but other ACC teams were also ranked during that period. FSU was a national power. Not just an ACC power.

 

[g0lftime]

FSU was dominant in those years, but other ACC teams were also ranked during that period. FSU was a national power. Not just an ACC power.

UNC had some 10 win seasons during Mac's first stint but couldn't beat FSU. One of the reasons he left for Texas.

 

[Root4GT]

FSU was dominant in those years, but other ACC teams were also ranked during that period. FSU was a national power. Not just an ACC power.

We agree that FSU was the dominant team of that period in the Country. Spurrier and Florida were the only team that consistently challenged them.

There were other solid ACC Teams but FSU beat everyone regularly so no other ACC team could compete at the National Championship level.

 

[gville_jacket]

Here's finally ranked teams with 9+ wins (except 2020) for the ACC from 2004 - 2023. Most would consider these solid teams.

2004: 10 VPI (10-3), 11 Miami (9-3), 15 FSU (9-3)
2005: 7 VPI (11-2), 17 Miami (9-3), 18 BC (9-3)
2006: 18 WFU (11-3), 19 VPI (10-3), 20 BC (10-3)
2007: 9 VPI (11-2), 10 BC (10-3), 21 Clemson (9-4)
2008: 15 VPI (10-4), 21 FSU (9-4), 22 GT (9-4)
2009: 10 VPI (10-3), 13 GT (11-3), 19 Miami (9-4)
2010: 16 VPI (10-3), 17 FSU (10-4), 23 UMD (9-4), 25 NCSU (9-4)
2011: 21 VPI (11-3), 22 Clemson (10-4), 23 FSU (9-4)
2012: 10 FSU (12-2), 11 Clemson 11-2)
2013: 1 FSU (14-0), 8 Clemson (11-2), 23 Duke (10-4)
2014: 5 FSU (13-1), 8 GT (11-3), 15 Clemson (10-3), 24 Louisville (9-4)
2015: 2 Clemson (14-1), 14 FSU (10-3), 15 UNC (11-3)
2016: 1 Clemson (14-1), 8 FSU (10-3), 16 VPI (10-4), 20 Miami (9-4), 21 Louisville (9-4)
2017: 4 Clemson (12-2), 13 Miami (10-3), 23 NCSU (9-4), 24 VPI (9-4)
2018: 1 Clemson (15-0), 15 Syracuse (10-3)
2019: 2 Clemson (14-1)
2020: 3 Clemson (10-2), 5 Notre Dame (10-2), 18 UNC (8-4), 22 Miami (8-3)
2021: 13 Pitt (11-3), 14 Clemson (10-3), 15 WFU (11-3), 20 NCSU (9-3)
2022: 11 FSU (10-3), 13 Clemson (11-3), 22 Pitt (9-4)
2023: 6 FSU (13-1), 19 Louisville (10-4), 20 Clemson (9-4), 21 NCSU (9-4)

Just FYI.

We won 9 in both 2006 and 2016 and aren’t on this list.

Edit: Sorry, I see now where you said ranked.

 

[stinger78]

We won 9 in both 2006 and 2016 and aren’t on this list.

Edit: Sorry, I see now where you said ranked.

Still a good team though, right?

 

[Root4GT]

Still a good team though, right?

We were ranked in 2006 until the ACC Championship game loss to WF. The 2016 team was never ranked.

 

[stinger78]

The 2016 team started off badly but really came on at the end of the season. Definitely a top 25 team that year. I’d say 2006, too, if not for Pat Nix.

 

[orientalnc]

I think our 2014 team was better than #8. We had an awesome offense that year.

 

[L41k18]

Everyone seems to forget when the ACC added VT, FSU and Miami. The ACC was the best conference in the country. Funny how perceptions change.

13 years elapsed between the ACC adding FSU and then adding VT/Miami/BC. Miami has basically sucked the whole time they've been in the ACC. Except for the brief revival due to Jameous Winston, FSU has been very pedestrian since the addition of VT/Mia as well.

Tell me, what year exactly was the ACC the best conference in the country?

 

[Sugar3ThousandPounds]

Everyone seems to forget when the ACC added VT, FSU and Miami. The ACC was the best conference in the country. Funny how perceptions change.

Texas has been the biggest under-performer compared to spend. They will probably continue to do that, this season not withstanding.

Who's to say you could see FSU stay where they are, Miami is back ( ), Clemson gets back into the top 5 and Tech gets back into the discussion as a solid top 20 team.

Way too much doom and gloom by the vocal minority

Yep. Miami and VT falling from their perch as perennial top-10 teams in the 2000s is what hurt the ACC the most. For youngins like me it’s easy to forget that Miami played in 6 straight major bowl games from 2000-2005 (if you count the Peach Bowls), including 2 Nattys — they have played in 1 (2017 Orange Bowl) in the 18 seasons since. Similar story for VT: major bowls in 7/8 years from 2004-2011 — zero in 12 years since.

Ifs and buts and all that, but if Miami and VT stayed even somewhat close to that level, and Dabo still brought Clemson to their current prominence, there’s an alternate reality where the SEC and ACC are equals, with the tiers roughly being:

Perennial Contenders
FSU, Clemson == Alabama, Georgia

Consistent Top-20 Teams, Occasional Contenders
VT, Miami == LSU, Tennessee, Florida

Fringe Top-25 Teams
GT, UNC, NC State == Auburn, Texas A&M

 

[cpf2001]

Yeah, the ACC tried to up their football game - but for it to have been successful, FSU/VT/Miami needed to not all fall off at the same time. Arguably the ACC held up their end of the bargain to FSU by expanding in a football-centric-way. FSU and Miami haven't held up theirs for the past 2 decades though.

(Maybe Miami realizes this and that's why they're quieter through it all.)

 

[iceeater1969]

Very interesting discussion about the quality of the top of acc verses the sec.

Perhaps comparing a few decades of the the mid to bottom dwellers and their actions to improve would have more to do than the top teams.

Perhaps TV / Advertisers expect the mid and bottom dwellers to SIGNIFICANTLY dig into there pockets to reduce the number of bad on really bad games.


Now that Players are being paid and can portal out - the quantity of mid and bottom games will greatly increase and the stick up really bad games will increase.

Imo, the SEC mid bottom teams ( except for V ) raise more $$ to get better than the ACC.

 

[augustabuzz]

13 years elapsed between the ACC adding FSU and then adding VT/Miami/BC. Miami has basically sucked the whole time they've been in the ACC. Except for the brief revival due to Jameous Winston, FSU has been very pedestrian since the addition of VT/Mia as well.

Tell me, what year exactly was the ACC the best conference in the country?

1990.