Conference Realignment

[stinger78]

If my memory is correct, in 1990 we beat UVA when they were ranked #1 and we went on to win the NC. That was before FSU.

Selective memory.

 

[orientalnc]

Selective memory.

It's the best kind. I have already forgotten who was our coach after Paul Johnson retired.

 

[wrmathis]

It's the best kind. I have already forgotten who was our coach after Paul Johnson retired.

well good news, there wasn't one until Key was named HC

 

[Root4GT]

Yes.
And of course FSU dominated the conference - they lost one ACC game in the first 6 years and two in the first nine. The ACC in football was only FSU for a long time.

Come on man you know it was an SEC propaganda campaign and not on field results! Just read what some posters repeat repeatedly!

 

[Root4GT]

Selective memory.

No we fell flat on our face right after that NC, in fact the 1st game of the following season. There was good reason the ACC was not taken seriously as a football conference before FSU joined the conference.

Make your case that the ACC was a serious Football conference? A very good single team every 4-5 years does not make a good football conference.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Limited pairing? Every major conference's champion was tied to a specific bowl for decades upon decades. Except the ACC of course because ACC football was not taken seriously until this century.

I'll try to not be snarky. I will. I promise.
But it is irritating when people make wildly inaccurate statements (like conference/bowl alignments not being a thing until the 90s) just to push their agenda.

I wasn't aware I had an agenda. Can you help me identify what agenda I might have had? Where was I wildly inaccurate? There were 15 bowls in 1980, 20 in 1992. How many of those were tied to a conference? A few. Conference/Bowl tie-ins became a big thing in the 90s.

 

[forensicbuzz]

No we fell flat on our face right after that NC, in fact the 1st game of the following season. There was good reason the ACC was not taken seriously as a football conference before FSU joined the conference.

Make your case that the ACC was a serious Football conference? A very good single team every 4-5 years does not make a good football conference.

ACC was never a football conference. Football was important at most of the schools, but they weren't very competitive overall. That being said, GT was highly competitive with FSU. We just always came up just short.

 

[L41k18]

GT was highly competitive with FSU. We just always came up just short.

These are the scores of the first 7 times we played FSU after they entered the ACC:
24-29
0-51
10-41
10-42
3-49
0-38
7-34

You are 100% correct that we started to narrow the gap after that, losing some heartbreakers. Finally broke through in 2008; of course by that time FSU was a shell of its former self.

The 2008 and 2015 games are probably my favorite games ever attended (I have personal & emotional family reasons for that).

 

[forensicbuzz]

These are the scores of the first 7 times we played FSU after they entered the ACC:
24-29
0-51
10-41
10-42
3-49
0-38
7-34

You are 100% correct that we started to narrow the gap after that, losing some heartbreakers. Finally broke through in 2008; of course by that time FSU was a shell of its former self.

The 2008 and 2015 games are probably my favorite games ever attended (I have personal & emotional family reasons for that).

I remember the game where Charlie Ward had a coming out and refs screwed us on several on-side kicks (2 for them and 1 for us?). I then remember with Joe Hamilton and Godsey being very competitive. I'll be honest, it's not easy to remember where all the games fell from memory, but I know we were co-champions of the ACC with FSU one year, even though they beat us head-to-head.

 

[Root4GT]

I remember the game where Charlie Ward had a coming out and refs screwed us on several on-side kicks (2 for them and 1 for us?). I then remember with Joe Hamilton and Godsey being very competitive. I'll be honest, it's not easy to remember where all the games fell from memory, but I know we were co-champions of the ACC with FSU one year, even though they beat us head-to-head.

The first game on L4's list was the Ward game. The next 6 games combined score was FSU 255 - GT 30 or on average 43-5! - Ouch! That is one of the reasons the ACC was not taken seriously as a football Conference. FSU beat almost all ACC teams similarly for their first 7 or 8 years in the ACC.

 

[stinger78]

Come on man you know it was an SEC propaganda campaign and not on field results! Just read what some posters repeat repeatedly!

Your SEC revisionist love affair is strange. No one here is saying the ACC was or is a great football conference. Not me, not anyone. We’re saying the SEC isn’t and wasn’t dominant *as a conference.*

Thinking the SEC is overhyped doesn’t mean one thinks the ACC is good. Bama was quite pedestrian for most of the 1980’s. GA Tech beat UGAg 1984, 85, 89, and 90. From 1987 on, after FSU got it together, they were 11-3-1 against Florida up to 2000.

Regardless of what one thinks about the ACC, and it certainly had its years, the SEC was just another good football conference most of the 1980’s and 90’s.

UGA won the MNC in 1980. The next was Bama in 1992. Then UF in 1996 and UT in 1998. The next undisputed MNC was Florida in 2006. That’s 5 in 26 years. Miami itself won as many.

The Narrative began in the early 2000’s and has never let up. Follow the money and follow the choices of who got chosen to play from that time on. They may have won them all anyway had there been a complete playoff, but I’m tired of stacked decks feeding a narrative that is killing college football.

 

[orientalnc]

The first game on L4's list was the Ward game. The next 6 games combined score was FSU 255 - GT 30 or on average 43-5! - Ouch! That is one of the reasons the ACC was not taken seriously as a football Conference. FSU beat almost all ACC teams similarly for their first 7 or 8 years in the ACC.

FSU's record in the 1st nine years in the ACC was 99-11-1 (70-2). So OOC they were 29-9-1. The losses from 1992 through 2000 were to #2 Miami, #2 Notre Dame, #13 Miami, #24 UVA & #3 Florida in 1995, #3 Florida in 1996, #10 Florida in 1997, NC State & #1 Tennessee in 1998, undefeated NC in 1999, #7 Miami & #1 Oklahoma in 2000. They were not just dominating ACC teams. They only lost to elite teams (except the two losses in the ACC).

 

[Northeast Stinger]

FSU's record in the 1st nine years in the ACC was 99-11-1 (70-2). So OOC they were 29-9-1. The losses from 1992 through 2000 were to #2 Miami, #2 Notre Dame, #13 Miami, #24 UVA & #3 Florida in 1995, #3 Florida in 1996, #10 Florida in 1997, NC State & #1 Tennessee in 1998, undefeated NC in 1999, #7 Miami & #1 Oklahoma in 2000. They were not just dominating ACC teams. They only lost to elite teams (except the two losses in the ACC).

And, as was pointed out a long time ago in this thread, the SEC only became a top conference after several coaching legends in other conferences retired, Bowden being one of them. This vacuum helped the SEC hype machine but when they really started to dominate was after they merged with ESPN. The bulk of SEC national championships occurred after this.

The continuum could be characterized as: The SEC saying they are good, The sports world believing the SEC is good, The SEC actually being good.

 

[Richard7125]

Your SEC revisionist love affair is strange. No one here is saying the ACC was or is a great football conference. Not me, not anyone. We’re saying the SEC isn’t and wasn’t dominant *as a conference.*

Thinking the SEC is overhyped doesn’t mean one thinks the ACC is good. Bama was quite pedestrian for most of the 1980’s. GA Tech beat UGAg 1984, 85, 89, and 90. From 1987 on, after FSU got it together, they were 11-3-1 against Florida up to 2000.

Regardless of what one thinks about the ACC, and it certainly had its years, the SEC was just another good football conference most of the 1980’s and 90’s.

UGA won the MNC in 1980. The next was Bama in 1992. Then UF in 1996 and UT in 1998. The next undisputed MNC was Florida in 2006. That’s 5 in 26 years. Miami itself won as many.

The Narrative began in the early 2000’s and has never let up. Follow the money and follow the choices of who got chosen to play from that time on. They may have won them all anyway had there been a complete playoff, but I’m tired of stacked decks feeding a narrative that is killing college football.

"Thinking the SEC is overhyped doesn’t mean one thinks the ACC is good."

Most on this board agree the SEC is overhyped, but they also recognize the SEC tends to have three to four solid teams each year whereas the ACC tends to have only one solid team each year.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

"Thinking the SEC is overhyped doesn’t mean one thinks the ACC is good."

Most on this board agree the SEC is overhyped, but they also recognize the SEC tends to have three to four solid teams each year whereas the ACC tends to have only one solid team each year.

I think this has been true most years of late. It reminds me of when the SEC was mainly Alabama and then “everybody else.” But the SEC did a better job in the past leveraging their strengths. If Alabama played a close game against an SEC team it wasn’t because Alabama had weaknesses, they argued, it was because the SEC was so tough to play in. The way the ACC teams beat up on each other reminds me of how the SEC used to beat up on each other.

 

[stinger78]

"Thinking the SEC is overhyped doesn’t mean one thinks the ACC is good."

Most on this board agree the SEC is overhyped, but they also recognize the SEC tends to have three to four solid teams each year whereas the ACC tends to have only one solid team each year.

I agree generally, but think this is underselling the ACC. There are many years when the ACC has multiple solid teams. Perhaps not as many as the SWC many years, but multiples nonetheless.

This is a big issue. If the SECheat is that good you don’t have to put down other conferences to say so. This is also why many of us want more equal representation.

 

[stinger78]

Here's finally ranked teams with 9+ wins (except 2020) for the ACC from 2004 - 2023. Most would consider these solid teams.

2004: 10 VPI (10-3), 11 Miami (9-3), 15 FSU (9-3)
2005: 7 VPI (11-2), 17 Miami (9-3), 18 BC (9-3)
2006: 18 WFU (11-3), 19 VPI (10-3), 20 BC (10-3)
2007: 9 VPI (11-2), 10 BC (10-3), 21 Clemson (9-4)
2008: 15 VPI (10-4), 21 FSU (9-4), 22 GT (9-4)
2009: 10 VPI (10-3), 13 GT (11-3), 19 Miami (9-4)
2010: 16 VPI (10-3), 17 FSU (10-4), 23 UMD (9-4), 25 NCSU (9-4)
2011: 21 VPI (11-3), 22 Clemson (10-4), 23 FSU (9-4)
2012: 10 FSU (12-2), 11 Clemson 11-2)
2013: 1 FSU (14-0), 8 Clemson (11-2), 23 Duke (10-4)
2014: 5 FSU (13-1), 8 GT (11-3), 15 Clemson (10-3), 24 Louisville (9-4)
2015: 2 Clemson (14-1), 14 FSU (10-3), 15 UNC (11-3)
2016: 1 Clemson (14-1), 8 FSU (10-3), 16 VPI (10-4), 20 Miami (9-4), 21 Louisville (9-4)
2017: 4 Clemson (12-2), 13 Miami (10-3), 23 NCSU (9-4), 24 VPI (9-4)
2018: 1 Clemson (15-0), 15 Syracuse (10-3)
2019: 2 Clemson (14-1)
2020: 3 Clemson (10-2), 5 Notre Dame (10-2), 18 UNC (8-4), 22 Miami (8-3)
2021: 13 Pitt (11-3), 14 Clemson (10-3), 15 WFU (11-3), 20 NCSU (9-3)
2022: 11 FSU (10-3), 13 Clemson (11-3), 22 Pitt (9-4)
2023: 6 FSU (13-1), 19 Louisville (10-4), 20 Clemson (9-4), 21 NCSU (9-4)

Just FYI.

 

[MWBATL]

I came to accept some time ago that there are folks on this board who are blinded by the SEC hype. Arguing with them and using facts does no good. They are true believers. I gave up arguing about it.

 

[orientalnc]

I came to accept some time ago that there are folks on this board who are blinded by the SEC hype. Arguing with them and using facts does no good. They are true believers. I gave up arguing about it.

I agree, but the drums beat on.

 

[Root4GT]

FSU's record in the 1st nine years in the ACC was 99-11-1 (70-2). So OOC they were 29-9-1. The losses from 1992 through 2000 were to #2 Miami, #2 Notre Dame, #13 Miami, #24 UVA & #3 Florida in 1995, #3 Florida in 1996, #10 Florida in 1997, NC State & #1 Tennessee in 1998, undefeated NC in 1999, #7 Miami & #1 Oklahoma in 2000. They were not just dominating ACC teams. They only lost to elite teams (except the two losses in the ACC).

The FSU teams of that era were great. If I recall correctly they finished in the top 4 in the polls for 14 straight years. Their domination of the ACC did not help the belief that the ACC was a 2nd tire football conference. 70-2 vs 29-9-1 is significantly different. To FSU's credit they player an extremely difficult OOC schedule. They could as no ACC team was near them as a team.

Of course it's all SEC propaganda that the ACC was a lesser conference if football when FSU joined. LOL