- Messages
- 11,731
I think most people agree on this
Conference Realignment
- Thread starter orientalnc
- Start date
stech81
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 8,963
- Location
- Woodstock Georgia
Where do you turn to get 572 million. and to think I felt bad they missed the playoffs.
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,400
The discussion of GT and B1G reminds me of the saying about conference expansion: Fans pick their favorite schools, school presidents pick conference members. School presidents have totally different requirements for conference memberships than fans.
B1G school presidents invited GT to join a decade ago (from 2010-2012). Not much has changed since then. If anything, there are factors that have moved even more in GT's favor.
GT is still the same athletic program, but with better leadership. Football, we're still a 7ish win team with special seasons of 10+ wins every 4-5 years. Basketball is still the same program that's still trying find our glory years of the 90's and early 2000's. Both programs are now looking at far brighter days than what's been going on the last few seasons.
B1G wants to be in the South. Period. The Southeast is quickly becoming an economic powerhouse for the US. Which means the population is shifting to this area. Atlanta has the biggest concentration of B1G alumni in the South, and that has grown even more since 2012. Think about that when you talk about carriage fees and subscribers to the B1G network. Oh, did anyone mention that Atlanta is the biggest media market in the South? The value of the ACC media contract would plummet without GT and Atlanta. The ACC knew that and talked our shortsighted President out of leaving the ACC (seriously, read the AJC interview with former President Peterson...it will make your blood boil). Since 2012, the Atlanta media market has grown, economic value has grown, population has grown. All of which made GT attractive in 2012 has gotten even stronger in 2023, and will continue to get stronger over the next few decades.
You think Media networks think about that?
finance.yahoo.com
From an athletic standpoint, speaking specifically about football (it's the main driver of expansion), as bad as were under CGC, GT is still one of the better programs in the ACC:
Think about that graphic. Even with the CGC years, GT is still within a striking distance of the same winning percentage of FSU...that team making all the noise right now. Also, look at the discussed B1G targets (GT, FSU, Miami, UNC, UVA). Outside of FSU, GT has more conference championships than all of them, and has a better winning percentage than all but FSU and Miami.
School Presidents understand that a school's athletic fortunes can change. GT has historically been an above average to good program:
www.winsipedia.com
In terms of the B1G, GT is in the same winning band as Wisconsin/UCLA/Mich State/Minnesota. We've been a better program than Iowa/Minnesota/Maryland/Purdue/Illinois/Northwestern/Indiana. For those that don't think GT can be competitive in the B1G, I suggest you look closer. GT will continue to do what GT has always done: win 6-8 games a season, and enjoy a special season every 4-5 years.
There's also the intangible quality of a school that B1G Presidents look at, and for the B1G, it's an important issue.
This is one of the big reasons B1G Presidents have coveted GT for years. Combine that with all of the above, and you don't have to go far at all into the wish bag of what makes a school attractive to the B1G conference. GT checks all the boxes...even if our own fans don't think so.
There's a reason why GT was invited a decade ago, and you don't have to look too hard to see why GT may actually be in a stronger position now than we were then.
B1G school presidents invited GT to join a decade ago (from 2010-2012). Not much has changed since then. If anything, there are factors that have moved even more in GT's favor.
GT is still the same athletic program, but with better leadership. Football, we're still a 7ish win team with special seasons of 10+ wins every 4-5 years. Basketball is still the same program that's still trying find our glory years of the 90's and early 2000's. Both programs are now looking at far brighter days than what's been going on the last few seasons.
B1G wants to be in the South. Period. The Southeast is quickly becoming an economic powerhouse for the US. Which means the population is shifting to this area. Atlanta has the biggest concentration of B1G alumni in the South, and that has grown even more since 2012. Think about that when you talk about carriage fees and subscribers to the B1G network. Oh, did anyone mention that Atlanta is the biggest media market in the South? The value of the ACC media contract would plummet without GT and Atlanta. The ACC knew that and talked our shortsighted President out of leaving the ACC (seriously, read the AJC interview with former President Peterson...it will make your blood boil). Since 2012, the Atlanta media market has grown, economic value has grown, population has grown. All of which made GT attractive in 2012 has gotten even stronger in 2023, and will continue to get stronger over the next few decades.
You think Media networks think about that?
The big city winners and losers of the Fortune 500: Why Houston, Atlanta and Dallas are (almost) beating New York and Chicago
New York and Chicago have each declined more than 70% since the early days of the Fortune 500.
From an athletic standpoint, speaking specifically about football (it's the main driver of expansion), as bad as were under CGC, GT is still one of the better programs in the ACC:
Think about that graphic. Even with the CGC years, GT is still within a striking distance of the same winning percentage of FSU...that team making all the noise right now. Also, look at the discussed B1G targets (GT, FSU, Miami, UNC, UVA). Outside of FSU, GT has more conference championships than all of them, and has a better winning percentage than all but FSU and Miami.
School Presidents understand that a school's athletic fortunes can change. GT has historically been an above average to good program:
Winsipedia - College football ALL-TIME RECORD (WINNING %) (*minimum 100 games) rankings
Winsipedia - List and chart/infographic of schools and teams with the best ALL-TIME RECORD (WINNING %) (*minimum 100 games) in college football history
www.winsipedia.com
In terms of the B1G, GT is in the same winning band as Wisconsin/UCLA/Mich State/Minnesota. We've been a better program than Iowa/Minnesota/Maryland/Purdue/Illinois/Northwestern/Indiana. For those that don't think GT can be competitive in the B1G, I suggest you look closer. GT will continue to do what GT has always done: win 6-8 games a season, and enjoy a special season every 4-5 years.
There's also the intangible quality of a school that B1G Presidents look at, and for the B1G, it's an important issue.
This is one of the big reasons B1G Presidents have coveted GT for years. Combine that with all of the above, and you don't have to go far at all into the wish bag of what makes a school attractive to the B1G conference. GT checks all the boxes...even if our own fans don't think so.
There's a reason why GT was invited a decade ago, and you don't have to look too hard to see why GT may actually be in a stronger position now than we were then.
Last edited:
cpf2001
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,402
The B1G didn’t want Cal, apparently, though, which is a thing that makes you worry a bit based on those same graphs. Almost double the research dollars of GT and the SF/SJ media market, which is also quite large. Maybe they don’t think they would turn it around in football. Cause Oregon is another big outlier on that chart without research $ or a media market…
Techster
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 18,400
Word is Cal and Stanford were kept out by USC and UCLA. USC and UCLA also wanted to be the only West Coast B1G teams...until the Networks and B1G teams were able to work out a temporary bargain rate with Oregon and Washington. Those four schools (at least for the moment) are enough teams from the West Coast for the B1G. Also, Cal has a LOT of internal issues with their athletic department. Stanford, from what I've read, is just happy to be in the game. Remember when B1G said they were done with expansion, and a few months later added Oregon and Washington? With expansion, nothing is certain, and things can change at any moment.
GT has historically brought more to the table in athletics than both of those schools, and is in a key growth market (the South and Atlanta) for the B1G.
57jacket
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,602
The discussion of GT and B1G reminds me of the saying about conference expansion: Fans pick their favorite schools, school presidents pick conference members. School presidents have totally different requirements for conference memberships than fans.
B1G school presidents invited GT to join a decade ago (from 2010-2012). Not much has changed since then. If anything, there are factors that have moved even more in GT's favor.
GT is still the same athletic program, but with better leadership. Football, we're still a 7ish win team with special seasons of 10+ wins every 4-5 years. Basketball is still the same program that's still trying find our glory years of the 90's and early 2000's. Both programs are now looking at far brighter days than what's been going on the last few seasons.
B1G wants to be in the South. Period. The Southeast is quickly becoming an economic powerhouse for the US. Which means the population is shifting to this area. Atlanta has the biggest concentration of B1G alumni in the South, and that has grown even more since 2012. Think about that when you talk about carriage fees and subscribers to the B1G network. Oh, did anyone mention that Atlanta is the biggest media market in the South? The value of the ACC media contract would plummet without GT and Atlanta. The ACC knew that and talked our shortsighted President out of leaving the ACC (seriously, read the AJC interview with former President Peterson...it will make your blood boil). Since 2012, the Atlanta media market has grown, economic value has grown, population has grown. All of which made GT attractive in 2012 has gotten even stronger in 2023, and will continue to get stronger over the next few decades.
You think Media networks think about that?
The big city winners and losers of the Fortune 500: Why Houston, Atlanta and Dallas are (almost) beating New York and Chicago
New York and Chicago have each declined more than 70% since the early days of the Fortune 500.
From an athletic standpoint, speaking specifically about football (it's the main driver of expansion), as bad as were under CGC, GT is still one of the better programs in the ACC:
View attachment 15401
Think about that graphic. Even with the CGC years, GT is still within a striking distance of the same winning percentage of FSU...that team making all the noise right now. Also, look at the discussed B1G targets (GT, FSU, Miami, UNC, UVA). Outside of FSU, GT has more conference championships than all of them, and has a better winning percentage than all but FSU and Miami.
School Presidents understand that a school's athletic fortunes can change. GT has historically been an above average to good program:
Winsipedia - College football ALL-TIME RECORD (WINNING %) (*minimum 100 games) rankings
Winsipedia - List and chart/infographic of schools and teams with the best ALL-TIME RECORD (WINNING %) (*minimum 100 games) in college football history
In terms of the B1G, GT is in the same winning band as Wisconsin/UCLA/Mich State/Minnesota. We've been a better program than Iowa/Minnesota/Maryland/Purdue/Illinois/Northwestern/Indiana. For those that don't think GT can be competitive in the B1G, I suggest you look closer. GT will continue to do what GT has always done: win 6-8 games a season, and enjoy a special season every 4-5 years.
There's also the intangible quality of a school that B1G Presidents look at, and for the B1G, it's an important issue.
This is one of the big reasons B1G Presidents have coveted GT for years. Combine that with all of the above, and you don't have to go far at all into the wish bag of what makes a school attractive to the B1G conference. GT checks all the boxes...even if our own fans don't think so.
There's a reason why GT was invited a decade ago, and you don't have to look too hard to see why GT may actually be in a stronger position now than we were then.
Excellent Techster, simply excellent. Thanks for clearly stating ( with facts) what I have been trying to say earlier.. ROOT, READ THIS! AND ALL YOU OTHER BIG CRITICS.
That area is not considered a sports hotbed. Loosing pro sports team is not a good indicator towards college sports, but it does matter. NHL also has Atlanta back in its sights for expansion or relocation. The melting pot that is Atlanta is the home of college football and we now have the opportunity to build on the foundation of this year. 24 teams each for the B10 and $EC is where this thing is headed and we will be in the B10. I also believe that some of the current B10 and $EC teams will be told to kick rocks, IF the main 3 plus 1 (Football, Men's basketball, Baseball + Women's basketball) are not competitive more years than not.
cpf2001
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 1,402
The ownership of those teams is famously bad - it’s still probably not a big enough market for two teams but neither is Atlanta or anywhere else in the country anytime soon. I’d think the Warriors and Niners would show that a winner could do well there still. Better than Seattle or Eugene.
- Messages
- 11,731
The 49ers, Warriors, and Giants all do great. They had two NFL teams, two MLB teams, an NHL team, a NBA team, an MLS team, and two PAC12 teams. That’s a lot of sports.
They moved/are moving two pro franchises to Vegas, and it’s a good question how well they do there. The Raiders may operate less competently than the Falcons, and Oakland supported them well, considering
Northeast Stinger
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 11,191
Just chewing on a bone here but….it’s been 7 years since Northwestern has beaten an ACC team and 10 years since Vanderbilt has beaten an ACC team yet the perception is somehow that these teams are as strong as the bottom teams in the ACC.
Again, proving that the current down state of SEC football is mitigated by a 4 decades long propaganda effort that says the SEC is better, top to bottom, than any other conference. It just doesn’t matter anymore that all conferences have ups and downs if the SEC mantra is that “we are always better.”
But if you acknowledge that the ACC is an inferior conference, as some on here do, then you should be totally sympathetic to FSU wanting to leave.
Again, proving that the current down state of SEC football is mitigated by a 4 decades long propaganda effort that says the SEC is better, top to bottom, than any other conference. It just doesn’t matter anymore that all conferences have ups and downs if the SEC mantra is that “we are always better.”
But if you acknowledge that the ACC is an inferior conference, as some on here do, then you should be totally sympathetic to FSU wanting to leave.
- Messages
- 8,125
- Location
- Augusta, Georgia
You can add Illinois to the B1G.
Oldgoldandwhite
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 5,847
All the good will and sympathy for FSU for getting left out is evaporating quickly. And unless they go to the Big 12, they are going from big brother to snot nosed brat.
bobongo
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 7,783
Regarding Raycom, if FSU signed the agreement in good faith, and that faith can be shown to have been betrayed, then I guess they would have a case.
Regarding ESPN and 2027, I don't see how that affects the GOR. The GOR says nothing about the source of the media money.
Unless it can be shown the ACC acted in bad faith, I don't see how FSU has a case.
Northeast Stinger
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 11,191
Probably Rutgers and Maryland too.
Oldgoldandwhite
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 5,847
If I’m looking for a win, I had rather play the bottom 6 in the Big than anyone in the ACC.
Northeast Stinger
Helluva Engineer
- Messages
- 11,191
Bottom 6 ?
- Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland, Northwestern, Minnesota?
Yeah, that’s much easier than bottom 6 in ACC.
Flajacket
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 131
That 4th and 18 analogy is what I was thinking before I read your post. Spot on.
Frankly, that is optimistic.
Flajacket
Jolly Good Fellow
- Messages
- 131
Although there was no playoff then, Auburn in 2004 was undefeated with a SEC title and was left out of the championship game.