Conference Realignment

[SOWEGA Jacket]

I need some of you knowledgeable and levelheaded folks to talk me off the ledge. I’m starting to think FSU’s sentiments about the ACC are correct. The playoff snub never would have happened if FSU had been in either the B1G or the SEC. Every team in our conference is shortchanged by the bungling of the Tobacco Road gang and any team wanting national respect has a steeper hill to climb in this conference.

I was in the stands when Tech deliberately threw a game against Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl. It was not pretty but it got the desired result. I believe FSU is going to do the same thing this year. They are so angry at this point they want to ruin the ACC, ruin the playoff committee, and the reputation of the Orange Bowl.

I’m torn between hoping the ACC can start acting like a grown up conference and hoping that it will just blow up so that teams like Tech no longer have to carry the stigma. Yes, FSU is acting like an arrogant p———— but I’m not so sure they aren’t right. It’s not their fault they didn’t get in the playoffs. It’s the fault of the albatross around their neck and around the neck of every other team in this conference.

Someone please tell me I’m wrong and that the ACC will soon have as much respect as the B1G or the SEC.

You are correct but most of the lemmings here will just believe whatever ESPN tells them to believe. The ACC leadership has caused all of this by their 40 years of inept leadership letting these conferences get the upper hand, The FSU snub is simply that latest clue that the ACC is done as a conference when our leadership allowed 2 one loss teams to get an invite while our undefeated champ got left out. This isnt about FSU. It’s about all of us. Let it die then go from there.

 

[4shotB]

So, unless I'm completely wrong in my assessment of FSU as a university, then if the B1G admits the Noles, that goes out the window.

In a very fitting piece of irony, their most notable department or curriculum is their "Flying High Circus".

 

[orientalnc]

You are correct but most of the lemmings here will just believe whatever ESPN tells them to believe. The ACC leadership has caused all of this by their 40 years of inept leadership letting these conferences get the upper hand, The FSU snub is simply that latest clue that the ACC is done as a conference when our leadership allowed 2 one loss teams to get an invite while our undefeated champ got left out. This isnt about FSU. It’s about all of us. Let it die then go from there.

You and @Northeast Stinger might be right, but I don't think so. Tell me what the ACC could have done to get FSU into the playoffs that you are certain they failed to do.

 

[Ramblnwrek]

I need some of you knowledgeable and levelheaded folks to talk me off the ledge. I’m starting to think FSU’s sentiments about the ACC are correct. The playoff snub never would have happened if FSU had been in either the B1G or the SEC. Every team in our conference is shortchanged by the bungling of the Tobacco Road gang and any team wanting national respect has a steeper hill to climb in this conference.

I was in the stands when Tech deliberately threw a game against Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl. It was not pretty but it got the desired result. I believe FSU is going to do the same thing this year. They are so angry at this point they want to ruin the ACC, ruin the playoff committee, and the reputation of the Orange Bowl.

I’m torn between hoping the ACC can start acting like a grown up conference and hoping that it will just blow up so that teams like Tech no longer have to carry the stigma. Yes, FSU is acting like an arrogant p———— but I’m not so sure they aren’t right. It’s not their fault they didn’t get in the playoffs. It’s the fault of the albatross around their neck and around the neck of every other team in this conference.

Someone please tell me I’m wrong and that the ACC will soon have as much respect as the B1G or the SEC.

I’ll take a stab at it.

First, it’s an assumption that FSU would be undefeated in either conference. Which means they would have beat at least 2 top 10 teams. I have issues with the whole ranked teams at preseason which is totally based on prejudice, but it’s been that way for a while.

Second, we can assume that FSU has an unwritten agreement to another conference. We can also assume that that conference has said they will not pay for FSU to exit. Basically FSU has to get out on their own. FSU cannot think they can go independent, who are they going to play that gets their strength of schedule up? ND’s schedule is pretty set every year; they have so many ’rivals’, but if the other conferences go to one more conference game, even ND may be left out in the cold. They are pretty much coasting on their history.

Third, if the ACC does collapse, it won’t be the way people think. The ACC will stay but it will be the clear tier 2 with Big 12. This realignment is about the weaponization of each school’s fan based. Same as social media, how much of your attention can they point to specific ads, clothing brands, etc. I know a few uga fans and they REGULARLY buy new uga gear every year. That is more of the norm for SEC than specifically for Tech. The only reason the B1G/SEC are not more compact is they haven’t kicked out any one.(I have no idea if that is even possible or how) But if this trend continues, I see that being a possibility.

If the sum of the lessers is greater than the sum of the big 2. Then there might be need for a grand football conference (see Europe premier league) where conferences are null and you have to win consistently to stay at the top. Else, the playoff will be in name only and outside of Cinderella story. It’s only going to be one from those two, and they will change the rules to make it so. It takes a lot of money to keep these top teams at the top, and they will do whatever to do so.

FSU is basing their decision on being in a greener pasture so they can occasionally win. They have achieved saturation of their fan base. They can’t get bigger. Therefore they need a way to get more money.

For GT I only see the reason for either big 2 to give an invite is to get/deny the south to the other. Atlanta is more than just the capital of the south, it’s SUPER easy logistically from either side in any conference. This is a long term strategic move AND only works if the talent wants to stay in the region ( I don’t know if that is more true than not). Most do not look that far ahead and even if they did, can easily say other factors can change the math that far out.

Probably strayed from the original question. The only way ACC stays on top is if ACC can get parity revenue with the other big two. I don’t see that happening. FSU only tried to flex when after they sucked for the last 7 years. This domino fall started when their National Championship winning coach was hired away. ND should see the same issue, when a coach gets hired AWAY from ND your name is not as big as you think.

 

[bobongo]

You and @Northeast Stinger might be right, but I don't think so. Tell me what the ACC could have done to get FSU into the playoffs that you are certain they failed to do.

Yeah, I'm not understanding why exactly it's the ACC's fault that FSU got snubbed.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

What did losing the 71 peach bowl achieve?

They didn’t want to be there. Miserable game.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You and @Northeast Stinger might be right, but I don't think so. Tell me what the ACC could have done to get FSU into the playoffs that you are certain they failed to do.

If I may speak for him, what the ACC needed to do to get FSU in the playoffs they should have started doing 30 years ago. The SEC came up with a consistent narrative that they pushed through good seasons and bad seasons. The B1G also was consistent with their brand. Both conferences showed they were also willing to play hardball if the media didn’t fawn over them or the refs screwed up a game or the polls slighted them or TV contracts weren’t sufficient or…..the track record is extensive and consistent.

Again, I am willing for someone to talk me off this ledge but my gut level feeling is that leadership has been relentlessly weak which has insured that every team is on its own and any team that doesn’t have a coach, staff and administration spitting fire is going to get kicked in the teeth, either by the conference or the national media.

As pointed out many times, the SEC was down this year (the ACC owned them in head to head) and it didn’t even put a dent in the narrative. Had the SEC not done what they’ve done for 40 years, if they had waited until this year to argue that the SEC champ could in no way be left out of the playoffs, then they would just be more like the ACC with teams that get slighted, teams that don’t get preseason rankings, and teams that are left to flounder without support.

 

[Oldgoldandwhite]

So FSU is not making enough money, but they make decisions to lose money?

 

[4shotB]

So FSU is not making enough money, but they make decisions to lose money?

I too am scratching my head over this. At the end of the day I wonder if this isn't a publicity stunt to appease their idiotic fan base. You know, like people in corporations or politicians do when they form a committee to create the illusion of "something is being done about (insert problem here)."

If this IS real, this is the football equaivalent of going for it on 4th and 18 on your own 20 yard line. They are going to look like either geniuses or fools....there is no middle ground. But as Jesus said, it's better to be hot or cold than be lukewarm about things or wtte,

 

[HurricaneJacket]

Yeah this either blows up spectacularly or they look like geniuses. There is no middle ground that I can see at this point. Which of course means this will end up with a middle ground solution

 

[forensicbuzz]

I need some of you knowledgeable and levelheaded folks to talk me off the ledge. I’m starting to think FSU’s sentiments about the ACC are correct. The playoff snub never would have happened if FSU had been in either the B1G or the SEC. Every team in our conference is shortchanged by the bungling of the Tobacco Road gang and any team wanting national respect has a steeper hill to climb in this conference.

I was in the stands when Tech deliberately threw a game against Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl. It was not pretty but it got the desired result. I believe FSU is going to do the same thing this year. They are so angry at this point they want to ruin the ACC, ruin the playoff committee, and the reputation of the Orange Bowl.

I’m torn between hoping the ACC can start acting like a grown up conference and hoping that it will just blow up so that teams like Tech no longer have to carry the stigma. Yes, FSU is acting like an arrogant p———— but I’m not so sure they aren’t right. It’s not their fault they didn’t get in the playoffs. It’s the fault of the albatross around their neck and around the neck of every other team in this conference.

Someone please tell me I’m wrong and that the ACC will soon have as much respect as the B1G or the SEC.

I disagree. FSU was targeted to be left out because the CFP felt they could get enough people to swallow a dishonest assessment to get an SEC team into the playoff. To get Alabama in, they had to put Texas in because of the head-to-head and the fact Texas was already ahead of them.

I feel very confident that has the FSU QB not broken his leg, Washington would have been left out instead. Although the PAC12 was pretty strong this year, historically they were #5 of the P5 conferences. The CFP has shown they have no scruples and that they’ll create any narrative necessary for them to do what they want. Big $$$ controlled the committee.

 

[slugboy]

I think Jim Phillips should have been making public statements the two weeks before the championship weekend that an undefeated FSU earned their shot, and other ACC voices should have done likewise.

If Louisville, Auburn, or GT had taken care of business the week before, there wouldn’t have been a question.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

I disagree. FSU was targeted to be left out because the CFP felt they could get enough people to swallow a dishonest assessment to get an SEC team into the playoff. To get Alabama in, they had to put Texas in because of the head-to-head and the fact Texas was already ahead of them.

I feel very confident that has the FSU QB not broken his leg, Washington would have been left out instead. Although the PAC12 was pretty strong this year, historically they were #5 of the P5 conferences. The CFP has shown they have no scruples and that they’ll create any narrative necessary for them to do what they want. Big $$$ controlled the committee.

Not sure what you are disagreeing with. We both are saying there is no way the SEC was going to get left out, no matter what the scenario was or how many times the narrative had to change to make that happen.

My point is that the SEC has been relentless for decades pushing a narrative and promoting its teams that puts them in the driver’s seat whenever their is a close choice to be made by writers, pollsters and playoff committees.

They’ve worked the refs a long time. Just wish the ACC had done that.

 

[L41k18]

Someone please tell me I’m wrong and that the ACC will soon have as much respect as the B1G or the SEC.

ACC football has never had as much resoect as the SEC & B1G. There's a reason for that - the vast majority of the time since the ACC was formed its football was, truly, inferior to that played in those leagues (with a season or two exception here & there). Also, attendance and tv ratings also greatly favor the Big 2. Like it or not, that's reality.

The ACC's goal should be to remain the #3 power conference, to get ahead/stay ahead of the Big 12.

Oh. And to hell with FSU.

 

[Randy Carson]

So FSU is not making enough money, but they make decisions to lose money?

In the short run, yeah. Long term, I think the rich will get richer, etc.

It's ultimately going to be two big superconferences and probably two middle-weight conferences that make some occasional noise. Though if a really talented player (or coach) develops in the second-tier, he will hired away by a big league school.

Everyone else in the country is fighting over scraps.

 

[bobongo]

If I may speak for him, what the ACC needed to do to get FSU in the playoffs they should have started doing 30 years ago. The SEC came up with a consistent narrative that they pushed through good seasons and bad seasons. The B1G also was consistent with their brand. Both conferences showed they were also willing to play hardball if the media didn’t fawn over them or the refs screwed up a game or the polls slighted them or TV contracts weren’t sufficient or…..the track record is extensive and consistent.

Again, I am willing for someone to talk me off this ledge but my gut level feeling is that leadership has been relentlessly weak which has insured that every team is on its own and any team that doesn’t have a coach, staff and administration spitting fire is going to get kicked in the teeth, either by the conference or the national media.

As pointed out many times, the SEC was down this year (the ACC owned them in head to head) and it didn’t even put a dent in the narrative. Had the SEC not done what they’ve done for 40 years, if they had waited until this year to argue that the SEC champ could in no way be left out of the playoffs, then they would just be more like the ACC with teams that get slighted, teams that don’t get preseason rankings, and teams that are left to flounder without support.

That the ACC has made missteps down through the years is widely acknowledged, but that was known well before FSU signed its consent to the GOR on the dotted line.
They are not now entitled to renege on their agreement.

 

[Papa Foxtrot]

That the ACC has made missteps down through the years is widely acknowledged, but that was known well before FSU signed its consent to the GOR on the dotted line.
They are not now entitled to renege on their agreement.

If two things that are alleged are indeed true - one, that Swofford forced the Raycom deal due to nepotism and two, that the E$PN deal only actually runs through 2027, then F$U may truly have found the silver bullet to exit the ACC. Discovery is a b!tch.

 

[Root4GT]

Atlanta is. That's the goal of the BIG. TV Eyeballs in the south.

I need some of you knowledgeable and levelheaded folks to talk me off the ledge. I’m starting to think FSU’s sentiments about the ACC are correct. The playoff snub never would have happened if FSU had been in either the B1G or the SEC. Every team in our conference is shortchanged by the bungling of the Tobacco Road gang and any team wanting national respect has a steeper hill to climb in this conference.

I was in the stands when Tech deliberately threw a game against Ole Miss in the Peach Bowl. It was not pretty but it got the desired result. I believe FSU is going to do the same thing this year. They are so angry at this point they want to ruin the ACC, ruin the playoff committee, and the reputation of the Orange Bowl.

I’m torn between hoping the ACC can start acting like a grown up conference and hoping that it will just blow up so that teams like Tech no longer have to carry the stigma. Yes, FSU is acting like an arrogant p———— but I’m not so sure they aren’t right. It’s not their fault they didn’t get in the playoffs. It’s the fault of the albatross around their neck and around the neck of every other team in this conference.

Someone please tell me I’m wrong and that the ACC will soon have as much respect as the B1G or the SEC.

You are wrong and not wrong. The ACC is fine as a conference. ACC Football does not draw the interest as SEC/B1G football and never will. Just different type schools and fans for the most part.

The ACC has several teams similar to Vanderbilt and Northwestern. The SEC & B1G have 1 each. That explains a lot regarding football.

 

[SimpleGT]

You are wrong and not wrong. The ACC is fine as a conference. ACC Football does not draw the interest as SEC/B1G football and never will. Just different type schools and fans for the most part.

The ACC has several teams similar to Vanderbilt and Northwestern. The SEC & B1G have 1 each. That explains a lot regarding football.

BiG I
Rutgers
Minnesota
Indiana

SECheat
Arkansas
Miss State (usually)
USC east (usually)

Sometimes they catch lightning in a bottle, but mostly as mediocre as the ACC bottom tier
It's all about the hype

 

[Northeast Stinger]

You are wrong and not wrong. The ACC is fine as a conference. ACC Football does not draw the interest as SEC/B1G football and never will. Just different type schools and fans for the most part.

The ACC has several teams similar to Vanderbilt and Northwestern. The SEC & B1G have 1 each. That explains a lot regarding football.

I understand in theory what you are saying but I even wonder if “several teams like Vanderbilt” is just one more example of how SEC bias has subliminally affected us all and how we see things. I’m now going to go check and see what Vanderbilt’s winning percentage is against the ACC and see how that compares with the worst winning percentages by ACC teams against ACC competition.

If anyone else figures this out first let us know.

As for the B1G -Northwestern, Indiana, Rutgers and Maryland don’t seem to me to be better than the bottom four teams in the ACC.

But the fact that we are splitting hairs over this only confirms my suspicion that the ACC has been historically bad at hyping its conference compared to other conferences.