Conference Realignment

[bobongo]

I Guess my "Traditionalist" thinking comes from my time at Tech from 1962-67. I believe Rivalries develop from proximity and playing
repetitive games like the long rivalries we had developed with Auburn, Georgia, Tenn, and Alabama. For example, Tech's major rivals were within
a two-to-four-hour drive and the games were played every year. I do understand that we did not play all teams in the conference during the 60s, but most of the ones that we played were repeated every year. We may have rotated Vandy and Kentucky.

How traditional you asked. I would go back to the 1980s and 1990s in the ACC with 8 or 9 teams when the ACC teams played round robin and played every year. I believe this is the only way to develop rivalries and have a TRUE regular season Champion. With divisions or the rotation system which we are moving to, it will be difficult to balance strength of schedules. The ACC schedulers will be deciding on the strength of schedule for each team. I shudder!

Also, I believe the product is greatly diluted when you go past 10 teams, particularly when these teams are scattered over the entire East Coast.

Hope this answers your question to some degree.
.

I agree with you that the ideal conference is small enough for every team to be played every year (a 9- or 10- team conference with 4 or 3 OOC games), with relatively close regional rivalries.
Unfortunately, those good old days are gone, and they're not soon returning.

 

[AUFC]

I consider myself to be a Traditionalist. I am very hopeful the SEC and Big 10 will not expand past 16. I am hopeful
the University Presidents will take a stand on the principle that every Student Athletic should play every Conference
team Home and Away before graduating.

The ACC has set the format to do this with the 3/5 schedule (3 Permanent 5 Rotators). According to pundits, the SEC will follow this format with a 3/6 schedule (9 Conference Games). This could Affect Tech vs. Georgia!

If the Big 10 goes to 18 Schools, they would likely have to set up a 1/8, one permanent with 8 rotators (to stay at 9 Conference games). If they go to 20 Teams. I believe they have to go to 1/9 or10 Conference games each year. This leaves absolutely no room for Intra-Conference Games, assuming they still want 7 home games with two Group of 5 teams each year.

Just some food for thought.

I find the competitive inequities really annoying in football. Give me that Big East/Big 12 basketball true home-and-home round robin format. The Coastal/Atlantic champions should have always been decided by division record rather than conference record.

I agree with you that non-conf P5 matchups will be on the chopping block or at least lower in frequency, especially with an expanded playoff where SOS is less important for the elite teams. They will want the additional gate revenue and easy wins. I wonder how much the casual fan would tune out if we didn’t have a yearly game against Georgia though.

 

[jgtengineer]

I find the competitive inequities really annoying in football. Give me that Big East/Big 12 basketball true home-and-home round robin format. The Coastal/Atlantic champions should have always been decided by division record rather than conference record.

I agree with you that non-conf P5 matchups will be on the chopping block or at least lower in frequency, especially with an expanded playoff where SOS is less important for the elite teams. They will want the additional gate revenue and easy wins. I wonder how much the casual fan would tune out if we didn’t have a yearly game against Georgia though.

Actually i think the yearly game against Georgia hurts us in this case.

From a pure revenue standpoint georgia in years we have them at home helps us. From a perception it hurts us and not JUST for the fact that they have such a large number at our game. But during those years georgia fans will often buy upper deck season tickets for the relatively cheap price they are so they can watch the georgia game. They try and sell those tickets for the other games but some of them don't even bother because when weigh it against hte cost of a second hand Georgia Georgia Tech ticket doing it this way is much cheaper. So we have lower real attendance which looks bad.

Honestly If stansbury had not been stansbury I would have used the Covid year as an excuse to change up the series. We weren't going to be competive any time soon (fortunatley i think this has changed) and we have other traditional SEC rivals we could have revived in a deal with MBS. Imagine if instead of playing that rivalry game late in the year we worked out a deal to play it in september. And we alternated which SEC team we were playing. Its a "neutral site" game so you can change it every year but with a deal we make more money from it. We set it up so we can play Auburn, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee.

UGa would have agreed to this, they would much rather NOT play us because they have nothing to gain from it anymore. (hence why they didn't fight to keep it the covid year)

This would have made smart business sense because the SEC really wants to get rid of those late season OOC rivalry games since they can actually hurt a team headed into the post season.

Okay logical hat off

THWG lets kick their *** yearly.

 

[LT 1967]

I agree with you that the ideal conference is small enough for every team to be played every year (a 9- or 10- team conference with 4 or 3 OOC games), with relatively close regional rivalries.
Unfortunately, those good old days are gone, and they're not soon returning.

I agree the return to smaller conferences is not likely in the current environment with the drive for more
money and media attention. However, the old Southern Conference with 23 members eventually dissolved
into the SEC, ACC, and Southern Conference due to different priorities and philosophies. We will see how
it goes with the brewing media war brewing between ESPN, Fox, CBS, and NBC. Also, the possibility of some
possible new rules from the NCAA that might be enforceable!!

 

[Richard7125]

Actually i think the yearly game against Georgia hurts us in this case.

From a pure revenue standpoint georgia in years we have them at home helps us. From a perception it hurts us and not JUST for the fact that they have such a large number at our game. But during those years georgia fans will often buy upper deck season tickets for the relatively cheap price they are so they can watch the georgia game. They try and sell those tickets for the other games but some of them don't even bother because when weigh it against hte cost of a second hand Georgia Georgia Tech ticket doing it this way is much cheaper. So we have lower real attendance which looks bad.

Honestly If stansbury had not been stansbury I would have used the Covid year as an excuse to change up the series. We weren't going to be competive any time soon (fortunatley i think this has changed) and we have other traditional SEC rivals we could have revived in a deal with MBS. Imagine if instead of playing that rivalry game late in the year we worked out a deal to play it in september. And we alternated which SEC team we were playing. Its a "neutral site" game so you can change it every year but with a deal we make more money from it. We set it up so we can play Auburn, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee.

UGa would have agreed to this, they would much rather NOT play us because they have nothing to gain from it anymore. (hence why they didn't fight to keep it the covid year)

This would have made smart business sense because the SEC really wants to get rid of those late season OOC rivalry games since they can actually hurt a team headed into the post season.

Okay logical hat off

THWG lets kick their *** yearly.

Why do you think "the SEC" wants to get rid of the late season OOC games? Which games in particular do you think the SEC is concerned with? The SEC is going to get at least 4 schools into the 12 team playoff. The end of season OOC games will have very little effect on that.

I would argue these end of season OOC games have a much bigger impact on the ACC’s post season prospects than it does on the SEC’s post season. The SEC simply replaces a knocked off team with a team on the bubble. The ACC doesn’t have that depth. Given that, I would argue it’s in the SEC’s best interest to continue these games.

 

[bobongo]

I agree the return to smaller conferences is not likely in the current environment with the drive for more
money and media attention. However, the old Southern Conference with 23 members eventually dissolved
into the SEC, ACC, and Southern Conference due to different priorities and philosophies. We will see how
it goes with the brewing media war brewing between ESPN, Fox, CBS, and NBC. Also, the possibility of some
possible new rules from the NCAA that might be enforceable!!

Right now, all the turmoil in college football - the chaotic mega-conferences (leagues, actually), the tearing asunder of rivalries, the half empty stadiums, the massive turnover in personnel and coaches, the overlong seasons, the devaluation of the student/athlete - all of it is driven by one thing, the love of which has been aptly described as the root of all evil - money.

I have no clue what the solution is from where we are, and I understand that the focus on it right now is driven by a survival instinct because the program that doesn't find a way to get it will be left behind, but I'm just pointing out the irony that in the end the panicked rush to secure it will kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The train has left the station, and I have no idea how to stop it.

 

[LT 1967]

Actually i think the yearly game against Georgia hurts us in this case.

From a pure revenue standpoint georgia in years we have them at home helps us. From a perception it hurts us and not JUST for the fact that they have such a large number at our game. But during those years georgia fans will often buy upper deck season tickets for the relatively cheap price they are so they can watch the georgia game. They try and sell those tickets for the other games but some of them don't even bother because when weigh it against hte cost of a second hand Georgia Georgia Tech ticket doing it this way is much cheaper. So we have lower real attendance which looks bad.

Honestly If stansbury had not been stansbury I would have used the Covid year as an excuse to change up the series. We weren't going to be competive any time soon (fortunatley i think this has changed) and we have other traditional SEC rivals we could have revived in a deal with MBS. Imagine if instead of playing that rivalry game late in the year we worked out a deal to play it in september. And we alternated which SEC team we were playing. Its a "neutral site" game so you can change it every year but with a deal we make more money from it. We set it up so we can play Auburn, Georgia, Alabama, Tennessee.

UGa would have agreed to this, they would much rather NOT play us because they have nothing to gain from it anymore. (hence why they didn't fight to keep it the covid year)

This would have made smart business sense because the SEC really wants to get rid of those late season OOC rivalry games since they can actually hurt a team headed into the post season.

Okay logical hat off

THWG lets kick their *** yearly.

Assuming the SEC goes to the 9 game conference schedule, I do believe all of the ACC/SEC rival games are
in jeopardy. Four of the SEC schools would basically be locked into their conference schedule plus one in state
out of conference game. This still assumes two Group of Five or FCS teams which is most applicable to
Georgia since they have the Jacksonville game against Florida.

I do believe playing the Georgia game earlier in the season may be best for Tech. Even though many may
be unhappy with the ACC, we need to emphasize the Conference Championship and make that our most
important goal! With Georgia earlier in the schedule (Win or Lose), Tech could focus on the conference games
and this automatically puts an ACC team last on the schedule which will usually make that a very important
game in the ACC race.

Also, we are more likely to be at full strength earlier in the season. Due to Georgia's depth, we are
usually at a disadvantage at the end of the season due to injuries.

 

[iceeater1969]

Assuming the SEC goes to the 9 game conference schedule, I do believe all of the ACC/SEC rival games are
in jeopardy. Four of the SEC schools would basically be locked into their conference schedule plus one in state
out of conference game. This still assumes two Group of Five or FCS teams which is most applicable to
Georgia since they have the Jacksonville game against Florida.

I do believe playing the Georgia game earlier in the season may be best for Tech. Even though many may
be unhappy with the ACC, we need to emphasize the Conference Championship and make that our most
important goal! With Georgia earlier in the schedule (Win or Lose), Tech could focus on the conference games
and this automatically puts an ACC team last on the schedule which will usually make that a very important
game in the ACC race.

Also, we are more likely to be at full strength earlier in the season. Due to Georgia's depth, we are
usually at a disadvantage at the end of the season due to injuries.

Post more often!
You actually convinced me.

 

[Jim Prather]

Assuming the SEC goes to the 9 game conference schedule, I do believe all of the ACC/SEC rival games are
in jeopardy. Four of the SEC schools would basically be locked into their conference schedule plus one in state
out of conference game. This still assumes two Group of Five or FCS teams which is most applicable to
Georgia since they have the Jacksonville game against Florida.

I do believe playing the Georgia game earlier in the season may be best for Tech. Even though many may
be unhappy with the ACC, we need to emphasize the Conference Championship and make that our most
important goal! With Georgia earlier in the schedule (Win or Lose), Tech could focus on the conference games
and this automatically puts an ACC team last on the schedule which will usually make that a very important
game in the ACC race.

Also, we are more likely to be at full strength earlier in the season. Due to Georgia's depth, we are
usually at a disadvantage at the end of the season due to injuries.

Besides, U(sic)GA usually has a couple of players in jail to begin the season.

 

[LT 1967]

Right now, all the turmoil in college football - the chaotic mega-conferences (leagues, actually), the tearing asunder of rivalries, the half empty stadiums, the massive turnover in personnel and coaches, the overlong seasons, the devaluation of the student/athlete - all of it is driven by one thing, the love of which has been aptly described as the root of all evil - money.

I have no clue what the solution is from where we are, and I understand that the focus on it right now is driven by a survival instinct because the program that doesn't find a way to get it will be left behind, but I'm just pointing out the irony that in the end the panicked rush to secure it will kill the goose that laid the golden egg. The train has left the station, and I have no idea how to stop it.

As far as slowing the drive towards professionalism, I will toss out two RADICAL ideas that will likely cause a major reaction. As far down the tracks as we have come. these rules may be impractical, but I will proceed.

Two rules that the NCAA could change, and they might stand up to legal challenges:

Return to Freshman Ineligibility.

Return to Four year scholarship rather than current One year renewable scholarship.


I believe these two changes would serve to discourage the use of college as only a training ground for the NFL.

These are rules that should fall within the purview of the University Presidents and the NCAA.

I recommend a book titled "Bowled Over" by Michael Oriard (Notre Dame). Oriard is convinced that the first
step towards professionalism was the move from a Four Year scholarship to a One year renewable deal.
These rules were changed around the 1972-73 time period. Oriad also goes into many other subjects such
as running off players in the 1960s which we are all aware of from Bobby Dodd's biography.

I understand from further reading (USA Today) that some schools may voluntarily still give a 4 year scholarship.

Just some ideas for discussion.

 

[Augusta_Jacket]

Return to Four year scholarship rather than current One year renewable scholarship.

All power 5 schools currently offer multi-year (4-5 depending on redshirting) scholarships to football players. They signed an agreement in 2015 guaranteeing it.

The Facts About “Guaranteed” Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

NCAA Compliance Expert Rick Allen provides important facts about the new NCAA Division I rule which has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletic performance reason.

informedathlete.com

 

[LT 1967]

All power 5 schools currently offer multi-year (4-5 depending on redshirting) scholarships to football players. They signed an agreement in 2015 guaranteeing it.

The Facts About “Guaranteed” Multi-year NCAA DI Scholarships

NCAA Compliance Expert Rick Allen provides important facts about the new NCAA Division I rule which has the effect of “protecting” Division I student-athletes from having their athletic scholarship cancelled or not renewed for any athletic performance reason.

informedathlete.com

Thanks for the up-date. I was not aware that the Power 5 had voted on This. I am actually glad to hear that!

 

[iceeater1969]

The NCAA has complete control of number scholarships that member schools can offer. 85 football= max

To prevent a select few ( uga, ala, osu, clem) programs from getting all the good players (very top recruiting classes every year ) they can IMO ( after voting) ADJUST the rules on TOTAL SCHOLARSHIP LIMITS to level competition.
Isnt this possible if schools vote on it. ?

For example
The 16 Teams that go to COLLEGE Football playoffs lose 2 scholarships per year over the next 3 years (83, 83,83 instead of 85,85,85).
The 8 teams that advace to 8 lose 2 more = 81,81,81
The 4 that advance = 79, 79, 79
The 2 that advance 77,77,77
The Winner 75, 75,75.
[I picked 2 loses over 3 & the method of applying them as an example.]

I think pro football is back to making go tv ratings after they got the politics down to a mild roar. They are all about $$ but do extraordinary things to keep competition from being stratafied.

I am sick and tired of the top teams having better bench players than almost every other team.

Games are less exciting due to stock piling.

 

[ThatGuy]

Besides, U(sic)GA usually has a couple of players in jail to begin the season.

This is what I was going to bring up. Thinking back to Spurrier: "I sort of always liked playing them that second game because you could always count on them having two or three key players suspended."

 

[Techastrophe]

In parallel with conference realignment there might be opportunities to improve the value of non-conference games. With added fluidity of rosters it's harder to predict what will be a good matchup two to three years out.

Suppose in something like week 10 of each season every team is scheduled a non-conference game with open opponent, and each team assigned home/away at random. Then the matchups are set somewhere around week 4 or 5 of each season based on a blind auction process. Then teams would have a chance to make a statement against an opponent who has shown similar strength that same season.

 

[LT 1967]

Post more often!
You actually convinced me.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. You and I may have a little different image of Tech Football than some of our
younger Alumni Friends.

For over 1/2 Century, I have felt like Tech Football would eventually return to the Stability and Consistent winning we
experienced in those years. When I arrived at Tech, we had beaten Georgia 9 out of the last 12 and we were 3rd in
SEC wins behind Alabama and Tennessee when we left the SEC in my Sophomore season.

I still believe! Improved financial support and a good and loyal coach who will not jump to the next better offer
will cure some of the issues. Coaching turnover has been a major factor in our inconsistency.

I hope Key is that Man!

 

[jgtengineer]

Why do you think "the SEC" wants to get rid of the late season OOC games? Which games in particular do you think the SEC is concerned with? The SEC is going to get at least 4 schools into the 12 team playoff. The end of season OOC games will have very little effect on that.

I would argue these end of season OOC games have a much bigger impact on the ACC’s post season prospects than it does on the SEC’s post season. The SEC simply replaces a knocked off team with a team on the bubble. The ACC doesn’t have that depth. Given that, I would argue it’s in the SEC’s best interest to continue these games.

Its more about money this would allow them to go with SEC matchups that weekend leading into their championship game. They can then schedule a more intriguing matchups.

Imagine a big 10 SEC challenge in september with this slate Alabama vs Ohio State, Vandy vs Rutgers, Georgia Vs Michigan, Auburn vs Michigan State, Kentucky vs Maryland, Nebraska Vs Missouri. Texas Vs penn state etc The ACC matchups just don't move the needle as much and interfere with things like this.

 

[iceeater1969]

Thanks for your thoughts on this. You and I may have a little different image of Tech Football than some of our
younger Alumni Friends.

For over 1/2 Century, I have felt like Tech Football would eventually return to the Stability and Consistent winning we
experienced in those years. When I arrived at Tech, we had beaten Georgia 9 out of the last 12 and we were 3rd in
SEC wins behind Alabama and Tennessee when we left the SEC in my Sophomore season.

I still believe! Improved financial support and a good and loyal coach who will not jump to the next better offer
will cure some of the issues. Coaching turnover has been a major factor in our inconsistency.

I hope Key is that Man!

I loke u was there in 60 s.
i went to texas for my whole career and missed out on gt football till tv coverage greatly expanded.
I hope Key is our man to be the steady head of the program. With a long term fair salary for him, good salaries for oc dc and great salaries for position coaches, we can be solid program. If we solve a few issuses for getting a few special case upperclassmen transfers, we can be top 20 program

 

[LT 1967]

The NCAA has complete control of number scholarships that member schools can offer. 85 football= max

To prevent a select few ( uga, ala, osu, clem) programs from getting all the good players (very top recruiting classes every year ) they can IMO ( after voting) ADJUST the rules on TOTAL SCHOLARSHIP LIMITS to level competition.
Isnt this possible if schools vote on it. ?

For example
The 16 Teams that go to COLLEGE Football playoffs lose 2 scholarships per year over the next 3 years (83, 83,83 instead of 85,85,85).
The 8 teams that advace to 8 lose 2 more = 81,81,81
The 4 that advance = 79, 79, 79
The 2 that advance 77,77,77
The Winner 75, 75,75.
[I picked 2 loses over 3 & the method of applying them as an example.]

I think pro football is back to making go tv ratings after they got the politics down to a mild roar. They are all about $$ but do extraordinary things to keep competition from being stratafied.

I am sick and tired of the top teams having better bench players than almost every other team.

Games are less exciting due to stock piling.

I like your idea. We do need some system that gives all Power five schools a more realistic chance to
compete for the top spot. Even Saban says that he thinks there should be more parity. Your idea would certainly test
the sincerity of those comments. I suspect there would be a lot of squealing from the so called "Big Boys''.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I like your idea. We do need some system that gives all Power five schools a more realistic chance to
compete for the top spot. Even Saban says that he thinks there should be more parity. Your idea would certainly test
the sincerity of those comments. I suspect there would be a lot of squealing from the so called "Big Boys''.

Maybe not penalize a school the first year, but if you make it to the playoff a second time in a 4 year period thing ding them