Conference Realignment

g0lftime

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.....plus requires ND to play 5 ACC football games per year. I would be willing to bet the ND game was the highest (or second highest) viewed game of all 5 of these ACC schools.
Let them try to schedule 5 or 6 P4 games each year without the ACC tie in. Their other sports don't really matter for tv. When was the last time anyone else cared when ND played Duke in soccer for example. They don't move the needle in MBB either.
 

Richard7125

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This doesn’t take into account the fact that the top 25 is totally arbitrary and not based on anything tangible. There’s no real discernible difference between the teams ranked 9th and 11th. Or 24th and 31st. I think the entire “top 25” rankings system should go away if we’re going to have a playoff. Every conference champ should be in, giving every single team in the country a path to the national championship. Then however many at large bids you want to shove in there go ahead. If the SEC and B1G are so much better than everyone else, make them beat the MAC winner. I don’t care if it’s a blowout, you shouldn’t just automatically disqualify half the teams in the league from competing for the championship based on a hypothetical of what people think would happen. Prove it on the field, just like all the #1 seeds in March Madness have to do against the #16 seeds.

Obviously that’s a pipe dream and never going to happen, but anybody advocating for a system that doesn’t at least include the winner of every conference doesn’t actually care about having a “real” champion. They just want to see the biggest brands play games against each other. Just let the Dodgers/Yankees and Lakers/Celtics play for the title every year.
I agree with your first three sentences and then disagree with everything after that.

Most years you can typically see who the top 2 to 3 teams are in college football. Some years you can argue among the top 5 teams. When you include 12 teams, you are including enough fluff to produce a very high probability that you captured all of the best teams. The CFP is a competition among the best teams to determine who the best is. It’s not a reward or participation trophy, but I know some want to look at it that way.
 

Richard7125

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Let them try to schedule 5 or 6 P4 games each year without the ACC tie in. Their other sports don't really matter for tv. When was the last time anyone else cared when ND played Duke in soccer for example. They don't move the needle in MBB either.
The point is it benefits both the ACC and ND.
 

stinger78

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I agree with your first three sentences and then disagree with everything after that.

Most years you can typically see who the top 2 to 3 teams are in college football. Some years you can argue among the top 5 teams. When you include 12 teams, you are including enough fluff to produce a very high probability that you captured all of the best teams. The CFP is a competition among the best teams to determine who the best is. It’s not a reward or participation trophy, but I know some want to look at it that way.
False dichotomy fallacy. It’s not either best teams or participation trophy.

You can determine “the best teams” multiple ways. You can use a popularity poll, a ranking with a carefully crafted algorithm for determining best teams, winning a spot through season performance, etc. All have their weaknesses.

Personally, I prefer to let the season performance have its say. Conference winners and runners-up only with no “at-large” teams, which is code for “my conference is stronger so I deserve more.”
 

stinger78

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Benefits ND more in scheduling opponents and tv income. I could care less about playing them. Want a high interest game with lots of fans, schedule Tennessee or Auburn instead.
I’d prefer to schedule no SECheat teams. Why give them money only to be cheated again and again? There are plenty of other good non-SECheat teams to play.
 

Richard7125

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False dichotomy fallacy. It’s not either best teams or participation trophy.

You can determine “the best teams” multiple ways. You can use a popularity poll, a ranking with a carefully crafted algorithm for determining best teams, winning a spot through season performance, etc. All have their weaknesses.

Personally, I prefer to let the season performance have its say. Conference winners and runners-up only with no “at-large” teams, which is code for “my conference is stronger so I deserve more.”
I think you’re in the minority with wanting only 8 teams.

I could be convinced of 8 teams, but I have no desire having G5 champions in the bracket. Back in the day when I watched football on Jan 1, I thought how cool would it be to see Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Bama, ND, Michigan, etc in a playoff bracket. Not once did I think it would be good to include Northern Illinois who was playing in the Idaho Potato bowl in that bracket. But that’s just me.
 

stinger78

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I think you’re in the minority with wanting only 8 teams.

I could be convinced of 8 teams, but I have no desire having G5 champions in the bracket. Back in the day when I watched football on Jan 1, I thought how cool would it be to see Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Bama, ND, Michigan, etc in a playoff bracket. Not once did I think it would be good to include Northern Illinois who was playing in the Idaho Potato bowl in that bracket. But that’s just me.
My plan would have the G5 with their own CFP. I agree with you there. So then, P4 conf champs and runners-up only.

Eight teams who earned their way in. No favoritism, just on-field play.
 

JacketOff

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I think you’re in the minority with wanting only 8 teams.

I could be convinced of 8 teams, but I have no desire having G5 champions in the bracket. Back in the day when I watched football on Jan 1, I thought how cool would it be to see Nebraska, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Bama, ND, Michigan, etc in a playoff bracket. Not once did I think it would be good to include Northern Illinois who was playing in the Idaho Potato bowl in that bracket. But that’s just me.
That’s because you don’t want a real champion. You want a popularity and beauty contest. Which is fine. But don’t call it a playoff, and don’t call the winner the national champion
 

orientalnc

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My complaint this year is with the bracket. #3 Boise and #4 AZ State have an potentially easier path to the semis than #1 Oregon and #2 uga. While PSU is favored, I will not be surprised if SMU wins that game and advances to play Boise. Also, I am impressed with Texas and can see Clemson winning that game if Klubnik has a good game. Their defense will be tough for Texas. So, AZ State could be playing the #12 seed and Boise the the #11 seed.
 

Richard7125

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That’s because you don’t want a real champion. You want a popularity and beauty contest. Which is fine. But don’t call it a playoff, and don’t call the winner the national champion
Haha, ok. In 2003-2004 Tech played in the championship game in basketball. I think most people refer to the NCAA bball tourney as a playoff, and had Tech won, I think all of us would have called them National Champs. That year Tech finished 4th in the conference; they didn’t win the ACC tourney. The ACC had 6 of 9 teams make the tournament. The SEC only had 5 of 12 teams make the tournament.

...but i don't want a real champion.
 

Root4GT

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My complaint this year is with the bracket. #3 Boise and #4 AZ State have a potentially easier path to the semis than #1 Oregon and #2 uga. While PSU is favored, I will not be surprised if SMU wins that game and advances to play Boise. Also, I am impressed with Texas and can see Clemson winning that game if Klubnik has a good game. Their defense will be tough for Texas. So, AZ State could be playing the #12 seed and Boise the the #11 seed.
Conference Champs won their spot on the field. They deserve their spots. Anything else is simply a guess based on BS mostly.

Until the games are played no one knows who is better.

The first round games look very interesting. In my view this is a giant step forward compared to either the BCS or 4 team CFP which were biased popularity fields.
 

MacDaddy2

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.....plus requires ND to play 5 ACC football games per year. I would be willing to bet the ND game was the highest (or second highest) viewed game of all 5 of these ACC schools.
Benefits how exactly? No one really watches non-football events other than men's basketball. I am not referring to the hardcore fans of these sports, simply the mass population.
 

RonJohn

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My complaint this year is with the bracket. #3 Boise and #4 AZ State have an potentially easier path to the semis than #1 Oregon and #2 uga. While PSU is favored, I will not be surprised if SMU wins that game and advances to play Boise. Also, I am impressed with Texas and can see Clemson winning that game if Klubnik has a good game. Their defense will be tough for Texas. So, AZ State could be playing the #12 seed and Boise the the #11 seed.
If the sentiment is that SMU can beat Texas, then why is Texas in the #5 spot?

What you are seeing isn't some anomaly with this year's bracket. It is simply the result of any 12 team bracket. The lowest teams will always be in the 11 and 12 spot. They will always play the 5 and six spot. The 8 and 9 spot will always be similar teams. After the first round in any tournament, the seedings go out the window if there are upstes. The issue here is that teams 1-4 don't play in the "first round". If you want the bracket to be "even" based on team positions playing lower team positions, then you need to be in an evenly formatted bracket, such as an 8 or 16. In a 16 team bracket, the 1 team will play the 16 team in the first round. Then after the first round, any games against upset winners will be viewed as an "easier" path to the championship.
 

RonJohn

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Haha, ok. In 2003-2004 Tech played in the championship game in basketball. I think most people refer to the NCAA bball tourney as a playoff, and had Tech won, I think all of us would have called them National Champs. That year Tech finished 4th in the conference; they didn’t win the ACC tourney. The ACC had 6 of 9 teams make the tournament. The SEC only had 5 of 12 teams make the tournament.

...but i don't want a real champion.
Every single NCAA division 1 basketball conference champion was in that tournament, so yes it would have been a real championship.
 

orientalnc

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If the sentiment is that SMU can beat Texas, then why is Texas in the #5 spot?

What you are seeing isn't some anomaly with this year's bracket. It is simply the result of any 12 team bracket. The lowest teams will always be in the 11 and 12 spot. They will always play the 5 and six spot. The 8 and 9 spot will always be similar teams. After the first round in any tournament, the seedings go out the window if there are upstes. The issue here is that teams 1-4 don't play in the "first round". If you want the bracket to be "even" based on team positions playing lower team positions, then you need to be in an evenly formatted bracket, such as an 8 or 16. In a 16 team bracket, the 1 team will play the 16 team in the first round. Then after the first round, any games against upset winners will be viewed as an "easier" path to the championship.
I agree, but the quirk that makes this situation is how the brackets are influenced by an SEC and B1G bias. And the need to give four conference champs a first round bye. Someone posted this earlier, but it's really an invitational tournament rather than a genuine playoff.
 

stinger78

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Haha, ok. In 2003-2004 Tech played in the championship game in basketball. I think most people refer to the NCAA bball tourney as a playoff, and had Tech won, I think all of us would have called them National Champs. That year Tech finished 4th in the conference; they didn’t win the ACC tourney. The ACC had 6 of 9 teams make the tournament. The SEC only had 5 of 12 teams make the tournament.

...but i don't want a real champion.
I think the NCAAT is a smash-up of championship tourney and photo op. 68 teams to determine a champion when you know almost for certain the 12 or pr so teams that champ will come from? Nah. That’s apples and oranges.
 

WreckinGT

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My complaint this year is with the bracket. #3 Boise and #4 AZ State have an potentially easier path to the semis than #1 Oregon and #2 uga. While PSU is favored, I will not be surprised if SMU wins that game and advances to play Boise. Also, I am impressed with Texas and can see Clemson winning that game if Klubnik has a good game. Their defense will be tough for Texas. So, AZ State could be playing the #12 seed and Boise the the #11 seed.
With a 12 team playoff they should have reseeding after the first round. Also, let Vegas odds makers do the seeding after the selections are made. With the current format, one and two seeds will get screwed often and might be better off losing (or sitting out) their conference championship games.
 

78pike

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Seriously, you don't understand how? The Prestige of the Notre Dame brand (deserved or not) puts butts in the seats at every sporting event they participate in. That means lots of ticket revenue. That includes football where they raise the average attendance numbers at every visiting stadium they play. The same holds true for basketball. In addition, their ability to make it to the NCAA tournament in sports other than football also earns the league revenue that is shared among all the teams. Plus, while they may not be full time members in football, they do play more ACC teams than any other conference and their brand brings more eyes for television which I think enhances our value come negotiating time though, it would certainly be better to have them as full time members in football, there is still some value to their part time participation.
 
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