Conference Realignment

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
I think you assume that ESPN: 1. Hasn't worked out an agreement with other schools they want in their collegiate portfolio. 2. ESPN even cares that the B1G might poach certain schools.

The ACC doesn't have to agree, because ESPN holds all the leverage in the scenario the twitter poster is discussing. It's actually true that ESPN does hold the overwhelmingly better hand versus the ACC. If the ACC doesn't agree to the proposal? OK, ESPN takes their money and cancels in 2027 and get the schools they want anyways while saving hundreds of millions per year NOT paying for schools they don't want, and the unattractive schools can go the way of the PAC 12. If ACC does agree, they will at least be viable until 2036.

Networks just want content, and inventory across the four time zones. If ESPN dismantles the ACC, they'll still have content and inventory spread across all 4 time zones between the SEC and Big 12 media deals.
But…

1. We don’t know what the option actually is… we’re all speculating.
2. If ESPN does walk from the deal in ‘27, you still have to unwind the GOR
3. For Clem and FSU to leave, 16 others have to agree to it. I don’t see that… it’s going to take a bot load of money for some, others will want release from GOR too.
4. I think the current ACC (with current members) are going to have to exhaust every media deal possibility before they come to the table and disband. Wonder if fox or even NBC wants to get involved?
5. With no chance at any media deal in its current form, there will be a handful of schools let out of GOR, but I don’t think it’ll be for free
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
It's always a game of shuffling money. If you don't think so, then you haven't been paying attention. PAC 12 refused to play that game with ESPN and take lower value after USC/UCLA/Washington/Oregon bolted for the B1G and ESPN effectively killed that conference. I know @CEB doesn't see it that way, but if you look through the prism that ESPN was willing to "shuffle" money towards the Big 12 and pay the remaining PAC 12 schools (minus Oregon State and Washington State) MORE net money per year to move, then that pretty much refutes your point of "shuffling money doesn't make any sense".
I don’t disagree with most of this post but with regard to the above…
ESPN didn’t push PAC to take less only to turn around and give Big 12 “more.” The PAC insisted on a huge bump. ESPN said no, PAC said pound sand and B12 said to ESPN “we’ll take that offer.” Big 12 got pretty much exactly what ESPN was prepared to give PAC (per team). PAC was not interested, shot themselves in the foot and members panicked.
 

UgaBlows

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,840
But…

1. We don’t know what the option actually is… we’re all speculating.
2. If ESPN does walk from the deal in ‘27, you still have to unwind the GOR
3. For Clem and FSU to leave, 16 others have to agree to it. I don’t see that… it’s going to take a bot load of money for some, others will want release from GOR too.
4. I think the current ACC (with current members) are going to have to exhaust every media deal possibility before they come to the table and disband. Wonder if fox or even NBC wants to get involved?
5. With no chance at any media deal in its current form, there will be a handful of schools let out of GOR, but I don’t think it’ll be for free
There would have to be a number of schools that had ready made landing spots in the SEC and BIG for that vote to release to happen. This will not just be FSU and Clem. Once these schools are gone no media group is going to want whats left of the ACC.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
There would have to be a number of schools that had ready made landing spots in the SEC and BIG for that vote to release to happen. This will not just be FSU and Clem. Once these schools are gone no media group is going to want whats left of the ACC.
That’s my feeling too; tried to make it in 3rd point. Clem and FSU won’t just slip out. Some others will also want out and everyone remaining will want $$$ for the reason you state… no TV windfall is coming for ACC remnants
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
Moving teams between the SEC, ACC and Big12 for ESPN content purposes is marginal. The new big money maker for ESPN is the expanded CFP and I would imagine it’s in ESPN’s interest for the CFP to be more than just an SEC-Big10 playoff. That means trying to keep the ACC and Big12 relevant.
It was ESPN that moved Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC which not only neutered the Big 12 but set off the dominos of the B1G expanding and the Pac 12 collapsing. The ACC became a second tier conference simply because of the strength of the expanded leagues. If their goal is to have multiple strong conferences for the CFP then then they have done a really poor job.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
It was ESPN that moved Texas and Oklahoma to the SEC which not only neutered the Big 12 but set off the dominos of the B1G expanding and the Pac 12 collapsing. The ACC became a second tier conference simply because of the strength of the expanded leagues. If their goal is to have multiple strong conferences for the CFP then then they have done a really poor job.
The sequence is correct but the causation you’re citing is suspect at best.

Yes, ESPN would pay the SEC more if they had OU / UT, but it was the SEC and those two schools that did it. As long as we’re speculating, UT butthurt that A&M had more Tv money might have been the biggest driver of all. OU was simply the best travel partner.

UCLA / USC to Big was the same… espn was not involved; Fox ended up the benefactor. ESPN was still in talks with the rest of the PAC for a reasonable deal but the PAC would have none of it. B12 slipped in and took the deal that PAC wouldn’t accept and panic did the rest.

The irony is that the PAC could probably be alive today with a deal similar to B12 and ACC if they didn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Wazzou and OSU were the losers. The ACC could go the same way, but i doubt it. I think there are a solid 10 schools that won’t find a spot in one of the other three. That’ll put the ACC squarely 4th in the power structure, but I don’t see a PAC /OSU /wazzou fate
 

bigrabbit

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
298
Why would the SEC want FSU and Clemson as opposed to UNC and UVA, where they will get more money?
Why would ESPN pay more money for content that they already have and pay less money for currently? His statement that ESPN wouldn't lose money is simply wrong. His idea is that a percentage of the SEC revenue would go the the ACC. Either they are paying more to the SEC for adding FSU or FSU is getting zero out of it. If FSU is getting net less than they get in the ACC now, why does it make sense fo them? He is making a circular argument that doesn't make sense. If it is net zero for the ACC, net zero for ESPN, and FSU gets more money, where does that money come from? Details matter and the math has to add up to something. He seems to be saying that ESPN's costs won't increase and everybody makes more money. The math doesn' make sense.

As other have said, this guy has made bold "predictions" in the past that never happen. If this random guy on Twitter has a reliable source that is providing accurate information, why do no respectable journalists have the information? Seeking clicks and reTweets is what social media people do. Telling the truth isn't what they do.
UVA is a minor part of all this speculation, but fwiw, I grew up in Virginia and have family members who went to both vpi and uva, including some really plugged into athletics at vpi.. Between the two, vpi far and away fits the sec “selling your soul for athletics” culture more so than uva. In fact, there has been almost an underlying mistrust of money and sports at uva, like the purity of the uva academic culture depends a bit on losing. Also, while the SWVA area is Hicksville, vpi has dominated NOVA for quite a while, really rabid fans in that large media market. Very insecure bunch, tired of uva looking down on them. I don’t know if vpi and uva are a package deal now - maybe someone knows the state politics on that. Historically uva acted independently and vpi was awful until Beamer came back, maybe that changed with vpi getting better at football and joining the acc.
I could see unc jumping to sec although unc is, in their heart of hearts, a basketball school (imo). I’ve watched folks breaking down crying in bars on Franklin St watching unc lose a basketball game. Never saw that with football, more like “yeah as usual we suck” in football.
Maybe none of that matters, just a scramble for $$.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
The sequence is correct but the causation you’re citing is suspect at best.

Yes, ESPN would pay the SEC more if they had OU / UT, but it was the SEC and those two schools that did it. As long as we’re speculating, UT butthurt that A&M had more Tv money might have been the biggest driver of all. OU was simply the best travel partner.

UCLA / USC to Big was the same… espn was not involved; Fox ended up the benefactor. ESPN was still in talks with the rest of the PAC for a reasonable deal but the PAC would have none of it. B12 slipped in and took the deal that PAC wouldn’t accept and panic did the rest.

The irony is that the PAC could probably be alive today with a deal similar to B12 and ACC if they didn’t shoot themselves in the foot. Wazzou and OSU were the losers. The ACC could go the same way, but i doubt it. I think there are a solid 10 schools that won’t find a spot in one of the other three. That’ll put the ACC squarely 4th in the power structure, but I don’t see a PAC /OSU /wazzou fate
So in your opinion ESPN and FOX have not been involved in conference realignment outside of being a well meaning media partner watching from the outside?
 

L41k18

Jolly Good Fellow
Messages
177
So in your opinion ESPN and FOX have not been involved in conference realignment outside of being a well meaning media partner watching from the outside?

What team are you a fan of?
"WreckinGT" sounds like you want to see Tech wrecked, and all your posts are heavily slanted toward FSU & seemingly cheering for the demise of the ACC?
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
So in your opinion ESPN and FOX have not been involved in conference realignment outside of being a well meaning media partner watching from the outside?
:LOL::LOL::LOL:
Wow… you went out of your way to put a really rosy opposite extreme in my mouth!
“Well meaning” and “watching from the outside…” far from it.

ESPN and Fox have certainly been in lockstep through it all… and there is no doubt that the conferences and schools “shopped” all of these moves before making them… but ESPN/ Fox didn’t make the moves. The schools and the conferences did. They certainly did so with assurances from ESPN that it would be lucrative… so in that sense, ESPN could’ve stopped it by saying “no more money.” But if the deal is lucrative, what interest would espn have in blocking it? ESPN has no interest in who ends up where, as long as they make money. It’s not ESPN’s job to preserve the history or sanctity of college athletics (if any sanctity exists). The schools have been exploiting it for profit for years and the schools are still driving that bus… ESPN just realized they can get in on it and the conferences found a very useful and lucrative revenue vehicle in these media deals.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
What team are you a fan of?
"WreckinGT" sounds like you want to see Tech wrecked, and all your posts are heavily slanted toward FSU & seemingly cheering for the demise of the ACC?
I am a fan of whatever is in the best interest of GT. Right now I don't believe that being in the ACC for the next 12 years while college football and college sports in general are being shaped around two major conferences is a very smart long term plan. Nor do I have any trust in the leadership of the ACC to guide us to any positive future. The ACC is going to either blow up completely or be left in a very diluted state. The only real question is when. My belief is that it is better for us if that happens sooner rather than later. Dragging it out for 12 years helps no one long term.
 

WreckinGT

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,159
:LOL::LOL::LOL:
Wow… you went out of your way to put a really rosy opposite extreme in my mouth!
“Well meaning” and “watching from the outside…” far from it.

ESPN and Fox have certainly been in lockstep through it all… and there is no doubt that the conferences and schools “shopped” all of these moves before making them… but ESPN/ Fox didn’t make the moves. The schools and the conferences did. They certainly did so with assurances from ESPN that it would be lucrative… so in that sense, ESPN could’ve stopped it by saying “no more money.” But if the deal is lucrative, what interest would espn have in blocking it? ESPN has no interest in who ends up where, as long as they make money. It’s not ESPN’s job to preserve the history or sanctity of college athletics (if any sanctity exists). The schools have been exploiting it for profit for years and the schools are still driving that bus… ESPN just realized they can get in on it and the conferences found a very useful and lucrative revenue vehicle in these media deals.
I think you are downplaying ESPN's likely involvement in the whole process. There is a reason that the Big 12 commissioner sent a cease and desist letter to ESPN and accused them publicly of tortious interference during the OU and UT debacle. He even accused them of trying to lure other programs to other conferences. In Bob Bowlsby's own words:
I am absolutely certain ESPN employees have discussed and provided incentives for at least one conference to raid 3-5 members from the Big 12. In doing so, they are prepared to reward them with future television proceeds.
He could be completely lying of course. Im not sure why he would. In reality, ESPN and FOX are the real puppet masters. The SEC and the B1G are their brands and products at this point. They are going to do whatever they need to do to promote that. They aren't standing by watching things happen.
 

CEB

Helluva Engineer
Messages
2,621
I think you are downplaying ESPN's likely involvement in the whole process. There is a reason that the Big 12 commissioner sent a cease and desist letter to ESPN and accused them publicly of tortious interference during the OU and UT debacle. He even accused them of trying to lure other programs to other conferences. In Bob Bowlsby's own words:

He could be completely lying of course. Im not sure why he would. In reality, ESPN and FOX are the real puppet masters. The SEC and the B1G are their brands and products at this point. They are going to do whatever they need to do to promote that. They aren't standing by watching things happen.
Possibly?
ESPN isn’t without fault, but I don’t think they are the primary driver. Greed trumped allegiance, history, etc for conferences. This realignment stuff was spooling up before the revenues exploded. ESPN is certainly throwing around money to sweeten their own piece of the pie… no doubt.
Can’t say what prompted the Big 12 C&D letter… maybe a reaction to the impending doom they felt as a conference at the time? Maybe a negotiation tactic (after all, they got right back in bed with espn)? Maybe there was interference from espn? Maybe a little if all of the above?
I guess if ESPN keeps buying everyone off, we’ll never know for certain.
The ACC deal is unique in that it is coming to a head with potentially a lot of term left (depending on your position with the option speculation).
 

RamblinRed

Helluva Engineer
Featured Member
Messages
5,878
Top