Conference Realignment

[LargeFO]

We’re downsizing our stadium, and most here are OK with it. Just think about that a bit. Consider it with reference to conference expansion and realignment.

We haven't filled the upper north going on 20+ years. If you eliminated it the stadium sound and noise would really improve.

 

[LargeFO]

Have always wished we would've hung around 40-43 K max.

 

[jgtengineer]

We’re downsizing our stadium, and most here are OK with it. Just think about that a bit. Consider it with reference to conference expansion and realignment.

We aren't doign enough should be droppgin down to 43000 but installing stadium seating in most of it and reworkign where the club seats are or how they work so they aren't empty on TV

 

[stinger78]

lots of schools, including in the SEC and Big 10, have reduced stadium capacity. That's not even the purpose of the renovation, just a small side effect - this is a nothingburger.

What SEC and B1G have reduced stadium capacity since 2000? Genuinely curious… for curiosity sake.

I was more pointing toward program excitement and enthusiasm as it relates to ticket sales, and how that might influence an invitation to another conference. There may be no influence at all. It may truly all be about media dollars. Somewhere, though, I cannot help but connect program excitement and enthusiasm with media dollars. Maybe I’m wrong. Just my $.02 worth.

 

[yeti92]

What SEC and B1G have reduced stadium capacity since 2000? Genuinely curious… for curiosity sake.

I was more pointing toward program excitement and enthusiasm as it relates to ticket sales, and how that might influence an invitation to another conference. There may be no influence at all. It may truly all be about media dollars. Somewhere, though, I cannot help but connect program excitement and enthusiasm with media dollars. Maybe I’m wrong. Just my $.02 worth.

Ohio State reduced capacity by 2600 in 2017

Michigan reduced capacity ~2000 in 2015

Nebraska is about to cut their capacity by ~15,000

Tennessee reduced capacity by ~600 in 2022 and by ~2000 in 2006

Oklahoma reduced capacity by ~3000 in 2019

I'm sure I could keep going, but I think the point is made. Schools aren't necessarily trying to just increase capacity anymore, but improve the amenities and whatnot for those that are attending games so they can charge more per ticket.

 

[roadkill]

Ohio State reduced capacity by 2600 in 2017

Michigan reduced capacity ~2000 in 2015

Nebraska is about to cut their capacity by ~15,000

Tennessee reduced capacity by ~600 in 2022 and by ~2000 in 2006

Oklahoma reduced capacity by ~3000 in 2019

I'm sure I could keep going, but I think the point is made. Schools aren't necessarily trying to just increase capacity anymore, but improve the amenities and whatnot for those that are attending games so they can charge more per ticket.

In perhaps one of the more recent and extreme examples of this, UNC reduced its stadium capacity from 63,000 to its current 50,500 by replacing its bleachers with individual seats. This was used as an example in the stadium upgrade survey that the GTAA sent out a few years ago.

 

[stinger78]

Ohio State reduced capacity by 2600 in 2017

Michigan reduced capacity ~2000 in 2015

Nebraska is about to cut their capacity by ~15,000

Tennessee reduced capacity by ~600 in 2022 and by ~2000 in 2006

Oklahoma reduced capacity by ~3000 in 2019

I'm sure I could keep going, but I think the point is made. Schools aren't necessarily trying to just increase capacity anymore, but improve the amenities and whatnot for those that are attending games so they can charge more per ticket.

Cool. Thanks. Was this mostly to install chair back seats or luxury boxes?

 

[Lil G]

None of the stadium renovations being listed, including our own, are simply downsizing. They are all in the name of upgrading. I’m glad we’re doing ours, as it’s huge for recruiting and visual appeal. I promise zero colleges (businesses) will be spending millions of dollars to downgrade anything. Ever.

 

[WreckinGT]

Is that factual or just what some people think?

The notion that the ESPN option only applies to the ACC network has only been mentioned here, has no evidence at all to back it up, and goes against what FSU said in their filing and in their BOT meeting. It also goes against reporting by Ross Dellenger and Josh Pate. In other words, it's extremely wishful thinking not based on anything concrete.

 

[stinger78]

None of the stadium renovations being listed, including our own, are simply downsizing. They are all in the name of upgrading. I’m glad we’re doing ours, as it’s huge for recruiting and visual appeal. I promise zero colleges (businesses) will be spending millions of dollars to downgrade anything. Ever.

I hear you, but at some point it becomes semantics. Yes, it’s always done in pursuit of progress. The old south stands at Grant Field were demolished due to code and the progress of adding the Wardlaw Building. It’s much nicer functionally and visually, but we lost about 8K seats, IIRC.

 

[orientalnc]

I hear you, but at some point it becomes semantics. Yes, it’s always done in pursuit of progress. The old south stands at Grant Field were demolished due to code and the progress of adding the Wardlaw Building. It’s much nicer functionally and visually, but we lost about 8K seats, IIRC.

I don't know if you ever sat in the old south stands. Those were terrible seats. I never missed them.

 

[yeti92]

The notion that the ESPN option only applies to the ACC network has only been mentioned here, has no evidence at all to back it up, and goes against what FSU said in their filing and in their BOT meeting. It also goes against reporting by Ross Dellenger and Josh Pate. In other words, it's extremely wishful thinking not based on anything concrete.

I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but what has been mentioned the most is that basically nobody has seen it and nobody knows. Have Ross Dellenger or Josh Pate seen the ESPN-ACC agreement? One is a writer for yahoo sports and the other works for one of ESPN's competitors, so I'm gonna guess that NO, they haven't seen anything either.

 

[g0lftime]

The notion that the ESPN option only applies to the ACC network has only been mentioned here, has no evidence at all to back it up, and goes against what FSU said in their filing and in their BOT meeting. It also goes against reporting by Ross Dellenger and Josh Pate. In other words, it's extremely wishful thinking not based on anything concrete.

That's an interesting question. Is the GOR only valid within the ESPN contract or if they opt out, can a new carrier (NBC, FOX, CBS, Prime etc) contract be negotiated under the existing GOR?

 

[orientalnc]

I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but what has been mentioned the most is that basically nobody has seen it and nobody knows. Have Ross Dellenger or Josh Pate seen the ESPN-ACC agreement? One is a writer for yahoo sports and the other works for one of ESPN's competitors, so I'm gonna guess that NO, they haven't seen anything either.

It was stated in the Mecklenburg hearing that FSU had included parts of the ESPN agreement in their initial filing in Leon County. That is what ESPN referred to in their response, calling it a potential felony.

FSU is saying they are are an indirect party to the ESPN contract because the GOR forces FSU to abide by the ESPN contract as a result of being an ACC member school. It's a stretch, but you never know what the courts might decide. Right now, the ESPN contract is bound by an intellectual property agreement that FSU is supposed to honor. Their argument is that Florida law requires all public entities to have all their contracts open to the public.

No one knows what is in the contract except what FSU put in their filing. That includes Dellinger and Pate.

 

[stinger78]

I don't know if you ever sat in the old south stands. Those were terrible seats. I never missed them.

Yes, I did. Nor did I.

 

[WreckinGT]

I've seen it mentioned elsewhere, but what has been mentioned the most is that basically nobody has seen it and nobody knows. Have Ross Dellenger or Josh Pate seen the ESPN-ACC agreement? One is a writer for yahoo sports and the other works for one of ESPN's competitors, so I'm gonna guess that NO, they haven't seen anything either.

They likely haven't, but they are fairly respected college football media members and I do trust their sources more than random people on message boards. Plus FSU choosing to include it in their legal filing gives it alot of credence. They obviously have seen it. You can choose to believe that FSU's lawyers are lying in legal filings and that Dellenger, and Pate are either lying or receiving bad info. It's not out of the realm of possibility I guess. But there is certainly more evidence out there to support the full media option than the ACC network option which im not sure anyone reputable has claimed or reported.

 

[RonJohn]

The notion that the ESPN option only applies to the ACC network has only been mentioned here, has no evidence at all to back it up, and goes against what FSU said in their filing and in their BOT meeting. It also goes against reporting by Ross Dellenger and Josh Pate. In other words, it's extremely wishful thinking not based on anything concrete.

Much like the idea that ESPN can just back out of the entire ACC contract. The ONLY place that has been actually cited is in the FSU filing. It doesn't include actual verbiage from the ESPN contract stating that there is an opt-out of the entire contract. The idea that ESPN can back out of the entire contract is not based on anything concrete either.

There probably is some kind of option. If there wasn't, then the ACC would have probably just refuted that entirely. The ACC is complaining about FSU violating NDAs in their filing. As such, they are not going to refute and share actual details if FSU's interpretation is malformed. NOBODY has actual information about whether there is an option to end the entire contract, nor to only end the ACCN. People are far too certain one way or the other since nobody is basing their opinion on "anything concrete". (There is one poster on here who does have a pretty good source, but that source wouldn't be sharing information with him since it is under an NDA.)

 

[forensicbuzz]

Much like the idea that ESPN can just back out of the entire ACC contract. The ONLY place that has been actually cited is in the FSU filing. It doesn't include actual verbiage from the ESPN contract stating that there is an opt-out of the entire contract. The idea that ESPN can back out of the entire contract is not based on anything concrete either.

There probably is some kind of option. If there wasn't, then the ACC would have probably just refuted that entirely. The ACC is complaining about FSU violating NDAs in their filing. As such, they are not going to refute and share actual details if FSU's interpretation is malformed. NOBODY has actual information about whether there is an option to end the entire contract, nor to only end the ACCN. People are far too certain one way or the other since nobody is basing their opinion on "anything concrete". (There is one poster on here who does have a pretty good source, but that source wouldn't be sharing information with him since it is under an NDA.)

100% correct. Nor should or would that poster ask.

 

[Vespidae]

That's an interesting question. Is the GOR only valid within the ESPN contract or if they opt out, can a new carrier (NBC, FOX, CBS, Prime etc) contract be negotiated under the existing GOR?

The GOR establishes that ESPN has sole right to produce and distribute the broadcasts of the games. And ... that the schools have conveyed their rights to the Conference to negotiate their rights on their behalf. That's because the Conference sold their rights to ESPN before the GOR. I am assuming that if ESPN renews, the GOR renews at the same time for any additional extension. I am also assuming that should ESPN not renew, the Conference can pursue another partner because ... the schools have already conveyed their rights to the Conference.

 

[Vespidae]

It was stated in the Mecklenburg hearing that FSU had included parts of the ESPN agreement in their initial filing in Leon County. That is what ESPN referred to in their response, calling it a potential felony.

FSU is saying they are are an indirect party to the ESPN contract because the GOR forces FSU to abide by the ESPN contract as a result of being an ACC member school. It's a stretch, but you never know what the courts might decide. Right now, the ESPN contract is bound by an intellectual property agreement that FSU is supposed to honor. Their argument is that Florida law requires all public entities to have all their contracts open to the public.

No one knows what is in the contract except what FSU put in their filing. That includes Dellinger and Pate.

The GOR states (Paragraph 1) that each of the Schools “irrevocably and exclusively grants to the Conference...all rights...necessary for the Conference to perform the contractual obligations of the Conference expressly set forth in the ESPN Agreement...”

By signing, member schools have to give the Conference control of all broadcasts that they sold to ESPN. The Schools do not own them. The Schools cannot revoke this. FSU has no leg to stand on.