Conference Realignment

Northeast Stinger

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Eh, USC played their game and got their split title and nobody tried to take it away. FSU seems to be more of the “cry and try to take out ball and go home” mindset, so I’m sure if they lose to UGA they’ll be full of excuses too about how it doesn’t mean anything that Travis got hurt.

I don’t particularly care for the ACC but FSU is delusional if they think they’d be better off this year in the SEC or Big 10 (especially post-injury) and delusional if they blame the ACC for them not being who they were 20 years ago.
I think it’s clear FSU has already forfeited their bowl game. There’s no upside for most of the players who are opting out. But you are dead wrong, if FSU had an undefeated season in the SEC or the B1G there is no way they get left out of the playoffs.
 

cpf2001

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I think it’s clear FSU has already forfeited their bowl game. There’s no upside for most of the players who are opting out. But you are dead wrong, if FSU had an undefeated season in the SEC or the B1G there is no way they get left out of the playoffs.
I just think there’s a 0% chance FSU without Travis beats Michigan, Alabama, or Georgia in a conference championship game.
 

Vespidae

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I think it’s clear FSU has already forfeited their bowl game. There’s no upside for most of the players who are opting out. But you are dead wrong, if FSU had an undefeated season in the SEC or the B1G there is no way they get left out of the playoffs.
But they aren’t in the B1G or the SEC. Here’s what the Orlando Sentinel had to say about FSU (not complimentary):

We all defined by our decisions, and historically, Florida State has made the decisions — some good, some bad — to hitch its football wagon to the ACC.

Let’s start with when FSU’s board of trustees made the unprecedented move to sue its own conference and challenge the legality of the ACC’s Grant Of Rights (GOR) and the more than half a billion dollars in fees it would take to exit the league.

Shouldn’t Florida State be suing former school president John Thrasher and former athletic director Stan Wilcox (yes, he’s the guy who also made the decision to hire Willie Taggart) for signing a bad GOR extension with the ACC back in 2016?

All of the ACC schools signed the original GOR deal in 2013 as a reaction to the departure of Maryland to the Big Ten. The thought then was: “Hey, let’s all band together, sign this contract and make sure our conference is steady and stable moving forward.”

FSU signed that agreement.

And then in 2016 — thinking they had a lucrative, long-term TV deal with ESPN — all ACC schools signed a GOR extension through 2036.

FSU signed that contract as well.

“All ACC members, including Florida State, willingly and knowingly re-signed the current Grant of Rights in 2016, which is wholly enforceable and binding through 2036,” the ACC said in a statement Friday.

In short, the Seminoles signed the GOR to ensure the conference would be stable and secure moving forward, and now they’re trying to blow up the conference into smithereens.

As we know now, the SEC and the Big Ten have since expanded and signed TV deals that dwarf the ACC’s deal. It’s no secret that ACC schools such as FSU and Miami will soon make an estimated $40 million per year less than in-state rival Florida. If you add that up over a decade, it means the Gators will have a whopping $400 million more to spend on paying blue-chip players and building palatial facilities.

I get it. The Seminoles are rightfully upset they were unfairly left out of the College Football Playoff, partly because the ACC is perceived as an inferior football conference. Mainly, though, the Seminoles are angry because the ACC doesn’t merit as much TV money as the SEC and the Big Ten. But, as I’ve written before, Florida State and Miami are mainly to blame for this as well.

When Miami joined the ACC 20 years ago, the narrative was that the Hurricanes and the Seminoles would become the Alabama-Georgia/Ohio State-Michigan of the ACC and carry the TV torch for the league. Instead, they dropped the ball — at the most inopportune of times. With conference TV contracts skyrocketing over the last decade, Miami has been irrelevant and never won the ACC championship since joining the league. Florida State has won five ACC titles in the past 20 years but, until this season, hadn’t played for the conference championship in nearly a decade (2014).

If FSU and Miami had done their part and maintained elite-level status, the ACC might be financially competitive with the SEC and Big Ten. As the old saying goes, “You get what you work for, not what you wish for.”

And while Florida State now laments the ACC being a substandard football league, let’s also remember the Seminoles built their national reputation because it purposely made the decision to join this substandard football league.

In 1990, with the SEC and ACC both trying to expand, FSU reportedly turned down an invitation to join the SEC and instead signed with the ACC. Legendary FSU coach Bobby Bowden, at the time, admitted he wanted an easier path to the national championship. In fact, he compared the competition in the ACC to the bums that aging, overweight George Foreman was beating up at the time in his quest to regain the heavyweight championship.

“I’m like George Foreman,” Bowden said then. “I like to pick those unranked guys out and fight ’em. Ol’ George is out there knocking out these no-names, but he’ll be fighting for the heavyweight championship directly. Everybody just assumed ol’ Bobby was raised in the heart of the SEC, so naturally, he’s going to want to jump right in. Maybe I know too much about the SEC to want to join up.”

When the Seminoles joined the ACC, they went undefeated in their first 29 league games and won conference championships nine times from 1992 to 2000. In its first 10 years in the ACC, FSU breezed through the league, played for five national championships, and won two.

Nobody forced the Florida State Seminoles to join the ACC 33 years ago.

They did so willingly — and it paid off.

Nobody forced the Florida State Seminoles to re-up with the ACC in 2016 and sign a long-term GOR agreement.

They did so willingly — and now it’s not paying off.

Own your decisions. [ENDQUOTE]

Probabably one of the better summaries on the subject. FSU allowed its program to deteriorate after benefiting from ACC membership. They used it to cruise to national prominence until it didn’t work. Now they are upset.

I can’t wait to read that FSU is suing the SEC and the B1G for not admitting them.
 

forensicbuzz

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I believe that is partly a self fulfilling prophecy. But that’s an argument we can leave for another time.

My original point still has not had any serious rejoinders, that is, if the ACC is such an inferior conference then FSU absolutely should leave (and any other program that wants to get treated fairly on the national scene) and quit getting dragged down by the ACC.

As long as the national pundits practice guilt by association no ACC team will ever get a level of respect commensurate with their actual athletic ability.
Will a B12 team after OK and TX leave?
 

forensicbuzz

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My comment is a direct rebuttal that FSU is a Top 5 program. It it isn’t and hasn’t been for some time. As to whether the ACC is an inferior conference… draw your own conclusions.
THey were this year. Isn't this year what the CFP is supposed to be looking at? Is last year's teams the same as this year's teams? This is where it sticks in my craw.
 

Root4GT

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I believe that is partly a self fulfilling prophecy. But that’s an argument we can leave for another time.

My original point still has not had any serious rejoinders, that is, if the ACC is such an inferior conference then FSU absolutely should leave (and any other program that wants to get treated fairly on the national scene) and quit getting dragged down by the ACC.

As long as the national pundits practice guilt by association no ACC team will ever get a level of respect commensurate with their actual athletic ability.
They should have made the CFP this year. They likely would have struggled without their QB1. That was the excuse the CFP Committee needed.

It sucks but it’s not the ACC’s fault. If QB1 is healthy they are in the CFP. Tough luck and yes there is ACC negative bias, earned though.
 

stinger 1957

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For me it has always been very simple, the ACC made their decision to become a FB conference rather than a BB conference about 10 years too late, thus it was always headed for eventual failure, they were always going to be behind and not be able to catch up. A victim of poor decision making by the Tobacco Road Mafia. Failure was always inevitable looking back on it. I still believe some end up in the Big 12, some Big 10, maybe 2 in SEC. I'm not sure Clemson or FSU end up in SEC or Big 10. I see it about the money and media and SEC already has FL and SC. The schools and mkts that bring new money to SEC are VT and NCST, that's assuming UNC and UVA go to the BIG 10 which I believe they would definitely do given a choice between SEC and BIG.
 

Vespidae

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THey were this year. Isn't this year what the CFP is supposed to be looking at? Is last year's teams the same as this year's teams? This is where it sticks in my craw.
My response was to SOWEGA who posted

“If a program like FSU who was a top 5 program for a 20 year span, with Natties, and Heisman winners can simply be laughed at because of their conference I can only imagine what they would do with the rest of us.”
 

roadkill

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The perception of the ACC’s relative strength compared to the B1G and SEC isn’t a result of the bottom tier of teams. No one cares about comparing those. It’s at the top tier.

Yes, the ACC can claim 3 championships in the last ten years. But before the rise of Clemson, the ACC’s elite was FSU and no one else. When FSU slid, the ACC was fortunate that Clemson rose to take its place. But we still were a conference with a single elite team.

The B1G can claim two elites most years, and the SEC has the “Big 6” – traditional power teams along with Bama (and now uga), that jockey with each other for top-tier status most years. The result is that the SEC has had multiple teams vying for the national championship (and winning it) over the last 10-15 years. To make things worse for FSU this year, Clemson was pedestrian and the PAC had two teams considered elite. So, it was the perfect storm for FSU and the ACC.
 

forensicbuzz

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My response was to SOWEGA who posted

“If a program like FSU who was a top 5 program for a 20 year span, with Natties, and Heisman winners can simply be laughed at because of their conference I can only imagine what they would do with the rest of us.”
I'm not arguing with what you were saying. I was just pointing out that too much is based on things that aren't relevant, like last year's results for a team that might have 1/3-1/2 roster turn-over.
 

SOWEGA Jacket

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If GT had won the ACC 16 of the past 32 years, went undefeated, was ranked inside the top 4 until the only ranking that mattered came out I don’t think there is any poster here who would say GT deserved to be left out. But because it’s FSU it’s ok. All I’m trying to make some of you realize is that they will do much worse to an ACC school like GT. I could throw out scenarios but why. You guys are in your witch trial mode so there is no reason. Your conference champ just went undefeated and the SEC/ESPN partnership came onto our property and took money out of your pocket. And many of you are happy about it. Just wait until we have a good year, beat UGA, and drop out of the top 12 invite list so a Miss St or Nebraska can get in. I’ll be here reminding you that once you give their scheming acceptance they are only emboldened. This year it’s FSU. Eventually, it will be us.
 

Root4GT

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If GT had won the ACC 16 of the past 32 years, went undefeated, was ranked inside the top 4 until the only ranking that mattered came out I don’t think there is any poster here who would say GT deserved to be left out. But because it’s FSU it’s ok. All I’m trying to make some of you realize is that they will do much worse to an ACC school like GT. I could throw out scenarios but why. You guys are in your witch trial mode so there is no reason. Your conference champ just went undefeated and the SEC/ESPN partnership came onto our property and took money out of your pocket. And many of you are happy about it. Just wait until we have a good year, beat UGA, and drop out of the top 12 invite list so a Miss St or Nebraska can get in. I’ll be here reminding you that once you give their scheming acceptance they are only emboldened. This year it’s FSU. Eventually, it will be us.
Do you think the ACC in football has been on par with the SRC for the past 20 years?

As was said earlier no one cares about the lower 2/3rds if any Conference.

Yes GT would have been screwed just like in 1990.
 

GTThor

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If the ACC is going to survive, they need to start thinking about adding more schools. I would start with Tulane and South Florida. If FSU and Clemson somehow find the resources to leave, I would want to be a step ahead of them. I know there’s talk about UNC, NC State, Virginia, and VT leaving also. I find it hard to believe that UNC or Virginia would leave. NC State also. VT has jumped around. I can believe that they would want to go. Miami has been bad since joining, so no real loss there.

If there’s enough schools willing to stay, there’s no reason to panic. Over the last 10 years, the only schools that have had real success is Clemson and maybe FSU. The others have been bad to mediocre at best.

The ACC can survive without them, but they need to be proactive and have their ducks in a row.
 

Jacket Bracket

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If the ACC is going to survive, they need to start thinking about adding more schools. I would start with Tulane and South Florida. If FSU and Clemson somehow find the resources to leave, I would want to be a step ahead of them. I know there’s talk about UNC, NC State, Virginia, and VT leaving also. I find it hard to believe that UNC or Virginia would leave. NC State also. VT has jumped around. I can believe that they would want to go. Miami has been bad since joining, so no real loss there.

If there’s enough schools willing to stay, there’s no reason to panic. Over the last 10 years, the only schools that have had real success is Clemson and maybe FSU. The others have been bad to mediocre at best.

The ACC can survive without them, but they need to be proactive and have their ducks in a row.
If we are adding schools…add Oregon State and Washington State for a West Coast arm to go with Stanford and California. Note: I would not add anything at this point.
 

GoJacketsInRaleigh

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If the ACC is going to survive, they need to start thinking about adding more schools. I would start with Tulane and South Florida. If FSU and Clemson somehow find the resources to leave, I would want to be a step ahead of them. I know there’s talk about UNC, NC State, Virginia, and VT leaving also. I find it hard to believe that UNC or Virginia would leave. NC State also. VT has jumped around. I can believe that they would want to go. Miami has been bad since joining, so no real loss there.

If there’s enough schools willing to stay, there’s no reason to panic. Over the last 10 years, the only schools that have had real success is Clemson and maybe FSU. The others have been bad to mediocre at best.

The ACC can survive without them, but they need to be proactive and have their ducks in a row.
If we are adding USF and Tulane, then we are pretty much a G5 conference at that point. If FSU and others leave, then whoever doesn't get a seat in the B1G or SEC needs to beg the Big 12 to take them. It is what it is.

Never thought I would say this but I hope the government intervenes and kills the NCAA. Let football be it's own league with a commissioner, go back to regional based conferences, pay the players with contracts, and have revenue sharing.
 

GTLorenzo

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If GT had won the ACC 16 of the past 32 years, went undefeated, was ranked inside the top 4 until the only ranking that mattered came out I don’t think there is any poster here who would say GT deserved to be left out. But because it’s FSU it’s ok. All I’m trying to make some of you realize is that they will do much worse to an ACC school like GT. I could throw out scenarios but why. You guys are in your witch trial mode so there is no reason. Your conference champ just went undefeated and the SEC/ESPN partnership came onto our property and took money out of your pocket. And many of you are happy about it. Just wait until we have a good year, beat UGA, and drop out of the top 12 invite list so a Miss St or Nebraska can get in. I’ll be here reminding you that once you give their scheming acceptance they are only emboldened. This year it’s FSU. Eventually, it will be us.

FSU was left out because they lost their QB and weren’t as good in games 12-13 as they were in earlier games. If he’s healthy, they’re in. He’s hurt, they’re out. It’s that simple. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

stinger78

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They should have made the CFP this year. They likely would have struggled without their QB1. That was the excuse the CFP Committee needed.

It sucks but it’s not the ACC’s fault. If QB1 is healthy they are in the CFP. Tough luck and yes there is ACC negative bias, earned though.
I don’t know this is true. The QB thing is an excuse. Even with Travis healthy the lure of a 1-loss Bama who had just beaten the #1 team would be strong, with many advocates. I don’t think It’s clear at all the FSU would have been there.
 
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