Colin Hall

gtrower

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2020:
.228 (13-57)
.314 OBP

2021:
.179 (5-28)
.324 OBP

The guy has struggled at the plate for awhile now (albeit for smaller than usual sample sizes). Yet he’s started all 23 games over 2020/2021. Anybody else starting to wonder why CDH hasn’t felt the need to give another guy a look? Hard to believe we don’t have another guy on this roster worthy of getting a chance to prove himself.

Not saying outright that he should be benched. But you have to wonder if he’s this entrenched with a different last name.
 

FittedJacket

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The whole focus of the game is so offensively driven it’s become too easy to overlook plus defense and experience. I agree the sample size is too small and the intangibles outweigh the lack of offensive production at this time. See how it goes as the season goes on, but this team definitely has some different options going forward.
 

THWG

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It seems like whenever he hits the ball hard, it's right at someone. Plus, Hall has been a slow starter, so I expect him to pick it up as the season goes along. I mean, we're only 2 weeks into the season and he has been putting up good ABs as well. Just give him some time.
 

gtrower

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Yikes... this is teetering into 0/10 bad post territory

He’s 18-85 over these two seasons and is one of three guys to start every game. Other two are Waddell and Compton - two of the best hitters on the team.

You don’t think it’s worth giving somebody else a look in a midweek game? Off a roster that’s busting at the seams with talent?

What’s your counter argument?
 

jatchet

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Last season it looks like he had only 1 error on 119 chances. His OPS is obviously not amazing, but I don't know where this really stands for college outfielders. .795 OPS for the 2019 season doesn't sound like a liability unless you have comparables to inform me otherwise.

If he is dubbed the defensive leader in the outfield, I think coaches would like to find an equal or close to equql defender who definitely hits better before unseating him. Also, keeping him only increases the chances his confidence continues to improve at the plate.

Maybe try this by saying who you would like to see more of in the outfield so the talk is positive. The nice thing about outfield is you can certainly audition other CFs in left or right.
 

JacketOff

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He’s 18-85 over these two seasons and is one of three guys to start every game. Other two are Waddell and Compton - two of the best hitters on the team.

You don’t think it’s worth giving somebody else a look in a midweek game? Off a roster that’s busting at the seams with talent?

What’s your counter argument?
Colin is an average hitter. He’s proven that over 3 years. His best attribute as a hitter is being patient and extending at-bats as well as drawing walks. His strikeout numbers are a little high, but this is mainly due to the fact that the vast majority of his at-bats are drawn out to 4, 5, 6+ pitches. He sees more 2 strike pitches than most other hitter do, which makes him statistically more likely to strikeout more. He could probably benefit from being a little more aggressive early in counts, but it appears that he and Ramsey have both come to the conclusion that he contributes more when he is a patient hitter. Driving up pitch counts is a hidden intangible that will not show up anywhere on a stat sheet, but makes a definite difference in the game. Extended ABs that result in hits, especially hits that drive up runs, are even more important. It’s demoralizing for a pitcher to throw 6+ pitches to a guy just to give up an RBI knock. Plus, his ability to draw walks makes up for his lack of hitting to an extent. His OBP currently sits basically 150 points higher than his BAVG. He’s got 6 walks in 7 games. He’s yet to have a game where he didn’t have a hit or a walk. Colin is not a .180 hitter. He’s going to hit .270+ with power in the gaps, drive up pitch counts, and get on base. The lineup is dangerous enough that Colin doesn’t need to be a great hitter, but doing what he does best is good enough.

You also didn’t account for his defensive abilities. He’s easily the best OF on the roster. He’s got the strongest arm from the OF, and while he’s not up to par with Nick Wilhite’s ability in center, he’s more than solid out there. He’s already made a couple of plays in the OF that were not easy, and had he not made them it would’ve led to extra bases and runs for the other team. Tres is solid in LF, and Reid is serviceable in RF because of his bat, so Colin needs to be out there to cover as much ground as possible. Deleo is the only other option in the OF, and he’s 3-13 with 0 BBs and not nearly as good of an OF as Colin is.

Probably the most important intangibles Colin brings to the lineup though is intensity and energy. Colin and Luke are similar in that they have swagger, but aren’t outwardly cocky. They’re both pretty quiet, but when something big happens they’re always the most fired up. Taking Colin out of the lineup subtracts a lot of that energy.

I’m not saying Deleo or anyone else shouldn’t occasionally get ABs, especially in blowouts or midweek games, but taking Colin out of the lineup completely changed the dynamic of the team. Not only would it have a pretty drastic effect the mentality, it would effect strategy on offense as well. If Colin faces a starter 3 times, you can pretty much guarantee he’ll see 15+ pitches. There’s not many hitters that can do that consistently, especially at the college level.

I think you also may be missing the most important component in all of this: It’s early. A sample size of 28 ABs is nothing. MLB broadcasts probably wouldn’t even flash an average up on a players introduction with that few ABs. They’d just give a H-ABs ratio.

Oh, and just an FYI. Colin started 2019 exactly 5-28, same as he stands currently. He ended that year hitting .307 with 18 doubles and 4 HRs. That last name snippet of your post is a little too snarky for my liking
 

gtrower

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Colin is an average hitter. He’s proven that over 3 years. His best attribute as a hitter is being patient and extending at-bats as well as drawing walks. His strikeout numbers are a little high, but this is mainly due to the fact that the vast majority of his at-bats are drawn out to 4, 5, 6+ pitches. He sees more 2 strike pitches than most other hitter do, which makes him statistically more likely to strikeout more. He could probably benefit from being a little more aggressive early in counts, but it appears that he and Ramsey have both come to the conclusion that he contributes more when he is a patient hitter. Driving up pitch counts is a hidden intangible that will not show up anywhere on a stat sheet, but makes a definite difference in the game. Extended ABs that result in hits, especially hits that drive up runs, are even more important. It’s demoralizing for a pitcher to throw 6+ pitches to a guy just to give up an RBI knock. Plus, his ability to draw walks makes up for his lack of hitting to an extent. His OBP currently sits basically 150 points higher than his BAVG. He’s got 6 walks in 7 games. He’s yet to have a game where he didn’t have a hit or a walk. Colin is not a .180 hitter. He’s going to hit .270+ with power in the gaps, drive up pitch counts, and get on base. The lineup is dangerous enough that Colin doesn’t need to be a great hitter, but doing what he does best is good enough.

You also didn’t account for his defensive abilities. He’s easily the best OF on the roster. He’s got the strongest arm from the OF, and while he’s not up to par with Nick Wilhite’s ability in center, he’s more than solid out there. He’s already made a couple of plays in the OF that were not easy, and had he not made them it would’ve led to extra bases and runs for the other team. Tres is solid in LF, and Reid is serviceable in RF because of his bat, so Colin needs to be out there to cover as much ground as possible. Deleo is the only other option in the OF, and he’s 3-13 with 0 BBs and not nearly as good of an OF as Colin is.

Probably the most important intangibles Colin brings to the lineup though is intensity and energy. Colin and Luke are similar in that they have swagger, but aren’t outwardly cocky. They’re both pretty quiet, but when something big happens they’re always the most fired up. Taking Colin out of the lineup subtracts a lot of that energy.

I’m not saying Deleo or anyone else shouldn’t occasionally get ABs, especially in blowouts or midweek games, but taking Colin out of the lineup completely changed the dynamic of the team. Not only would it have a pretty drastic effect the mentality, it would effect strategy on offense as well. If Colin faces a starter 3 times, you can pretty much guarantee he’ll see 15+ pitches. There’s not many hitters that can do that consistently, especially at the college level.

I think you also may be missing the most important component in all of this: It’s early. A sample size of 28 ABs is nothing. MLB broadcasts probably wouldn’t even flash an average up on a players introduction with that few ABs. They’d just give a H-ABs ratio.

Oh, and just an FYI. Colin started 2019 exactly 5-28, same as he stands currently. He ended that year hitting .307 with 18 doubles and 4 HRs. That last name snippet of your post is a little too snarky for my liking

It seems this struck a nerve with you. Not sure exactly why, I have nothing against Hall. I think it’s worth discussing why guy who’s been struggling at the plate has started the last 23 consecutive games on a team as talented as ours. And when it’s the coach’s son that’s certainly worth noting.

As I noted it’s not 28 at bats I’m looking at. I’m a math guy. I’m a stats guy. I understand small sample sizes. I also understand that the some other guys on the team have even smaller sample sizes. Because they’re not getting chances to play.

Going back to last season he’s 18-85. That’s .212 over the course of 23 games. Team is batting .284 over that span. One of the worst hitters for average on the team behind only Holland.

He has 23 SOS and 14 walks over that span. The team has 215/123 over that span. So he’s a little below average there. I agree driving pitch counts up is a good thing and “good at bats” can be hidden from stat sheets. I’d be interested to see the numbers there compared to other guys on the team. I would have expected that to appear more in his BB:SO ratio of he was doing that better than other guys on the team.

He had a .958 fielding percentage last year. Below average on the team (.966). He has yet to commit an error this season. These are both very low sample sizes. I will say that this if the first I’ve heard of somebody saying he’s “easily the best OF on the roster” especially when they go on to say that he doesn’t have Wilhite’s defensive ability in the next sentence.

The biggest thing your missing in all of this is my point wasn’t “Colin Hall is a bad baseball player” as you seem to have taken it. My point (as I say in the OP) is that it’s odd that he’s started 23 consecutive games over this hitting slump. You say he’s the best OF we have. I say we don’t know who we have, b/c nobody else is getting a look. You cite sample sizes and then go on to write Deleo off as an option because he started the first 7 games of his career 3-13. That doesn’t mesh.

I’d like nothing more than for Hall to return to 2019 form and go on a tear. I’m rooting for him as I am every Tech guy. But you ought to be able to honestly assess what’s happening on a message board.
 
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CINCYMETJACKET

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You can't underestimate defensive play, especially in CF. From Aaron Fitt's analysis of the game on D1 Baseball:

Waddell’s go-ahead homer might have started a chain reaction in the top of the seventh, but Georgia Tech really stole the momentum in the bottom of the fifth thanks to a play Colin Hall made defensively in center field. At that point, the Wolfpack led 3-2 and had two men aboard for the the dangerous Luca Tresh, who already had two homers in the game. Tresh hit a drive to deep left-center, and Hall raced back and caught it before crashing into the wall, holding onto the ball as he fell to the ground. He got back up and unleashed a primal scream, and the Jackets sprinted back to the dugout with renewed life. Hall’s catch ended the inning and saved two runs, keeping the score 3-2 instead of 5-2. The Jackets immediately built upon that play, as Drew Compton led off the sixth with a double and came around to score the tying run.

“After Colin made that play in center, you could kind of feel the energy building — a play like that fires up the dugout,” Waddell said. Baseball’s a big momentum sport, so any time you can bring that extra energy, it’s always a good thing. It’s contagious, and when we’re hitting like that we’re a really dangerous lineup.”
 

gtrower

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You can't underestimate defensive play, especially in CF. From Aaron Fitt's analysis of the game on D1 Baseball:

Waddell’s go-ahead homer might have started a chain reaction in the top of the seventh, but Georgia Tech really stole the momentum in the bottom of the fifth thanks to a play Colin Hall made defensively in center field. At that point, the Wolfpack led 3-2 and had two men aboard for the the dangerous Luca Tresh, who already had two homers in the game. Tresh hit a drive to deep left-center, and Hall raced back and caught it before crashing into the wall, holding onto the ball as he fell to the ground. He got back up and unleashed a primal scream, and the Jackets sprinted back to the dugout with renewed life. Hall’s catch ended the inning and saved two runs, keeping the score 3-2 instead of 5-2. The Jackets immediately built upon that play, as Drew Compton led off the sixth with a double and came around to score the tying run.

“After Colin made that play in center, you could kind of feel the energy building — a play like that fires up the dugout,” Waddell said. Baseball’s a big momentum sport, so any time you can bring that extra energy, it’s always a good thing. It’s contagious, and when we’re hitting like that we’re a really dangerous lineup.”

Thanks for the tangible account. Definitely a point in Colin’s favor in this discussion.
 

JacketOff

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It seems this struck a nerve with you. Not sure exactly why, I have nothing against Hall. I think it’s worth discussing why guy who’s been struggling at the plate has started the last 23 consecutive games on a team as talented as ours. And when it’s the coach’s son that’s certainly worth nothing.

As I noted it’s not 28 at bats I’m looking at. I’m a math guy. I’m a stats guy. I understand small sample sizes. I also understand that the some other guys on the team have even smaller sample sizes. Because they’re not getting chances to play.

Going back to last season he’s 18-85. That’s .212 over the course of 23 games. Team is batting .284 over that span. One of the worst hitters for average on the team behind only Holland.

He has 23 SOS and 14 walks over that span. The team has 215/123 over that span. So he’s a little below average there. I agree driving pitch counts up is a good thing and “good at bats” can be hidden from stat sheets. I’d be interested to see the numbers there compared to other guys on the team. I would have expected that to appear more in his BB:SO ratio of he was doing that better than other guys on the team.

He had a .958 fielding percentage last year. Below average on the team (.966). He has yet to commit an error this season. These are both very low sample sizes. I will say that this if the first I’ve heard of somebody saying he’s “easily the best OF on the roster” especially when they go on to say that he doesn’t have Wilhite’s defensive ability in the next sentence.

The biggest thing your missing in all of this is my point wasn’t “Colin Hall is a bad baseball player” as you seem to have taken it. My point (as I say in the OP) is that it’s odd that he’s started 23 consecutive games over this hitting slump. You say he’s the best OF we have. I say we don’t know who we have, b/c nobody else is getting a look.
This post completely discounts literally everything I pointed out that was wrong with your original post. Your using last year’s shortened numbers combined with this year’s small sample size as a determination of a slump. I pointed out to you that Colin started 2019 exactly the same as he has currently started 2021. He started 2020 slowly as well. He finished 2019 hitting over .300 with over 20 XBHs. He went 2-17 over the first 5 games of 2020, including 0 hits in his first 13 at-bats, but finished 11-40 (.275) before the season was cancelled. You’re trying to combine 2 slow starts as one streak when that’s disingenuous. You also used K/BB ratio as your measurement for his patience compared to other players on the team, when I literally explained the reason why his strikeout numbers are surprisingly high given his patience. He sees more pitchers per at bat, which leads to seeing more pitches in 2 strike counts, which leads to more strikeouts. The data isn’t traced at the college level, but pitchers per at bat is the stat you’re looking for there. And Colin’s is much higher than the team average. Colin is a slow starter, but trends upwards as the season progresses. You’re cherry picking your numbers and ignoring the trend that he has showed over 2 different seasons.

As far as the fielding numbers you’ve provided, you also ignored the fact that OFers have much fewer fielding chances than other players on the field, meaning every error they make much more drastically impacts their F%. I’m not sure where you got your fielding stats from for 2020 because I can’t seem to find them. But I’ll just take 2021’s stats as an example. Colin has the most chances as an OFer with 18. That’s tied for 6th most on the team. The current team fielding % is .954. If Colin had made just 1 singular error this year in 18 chances his fielding percentage would be .944 and below team average. Comparing someone’s fielding percentage to the team’s (especially as an outfielder) is a terrible way to determine someone’s defensive value. Malloy has been praised for his defensive efforts since he got here, yet his fielding percentage is below team average. Colin is the best defensive outfielder on the team. I said he’s not on Nick Wilhite’s level because Nick was one of the best OFers in the country. Colin isn’t on that level, but he’s still the best that’s currently on the roster.

All the while you’re still ignoring the contributions he brings to the team’s mentality and energy levels. Your post did strike a nerve with me, because you’re insinuating that CDH is playing favorites by playing his son over more deserving players. That’s insulting to everyone that’s involved with the program.
 

gtrower

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This post completely discounts literally everything I pointed out that was wrong with your original post. Your using last year’s shortened numbers combined with this year’s small sample size as a determination of a slump. I pointed out to you that Colin started 2019 exactly the same as he has currently started 2021. He started 2020 slowly as well. He finished 2019 hitting over .300 with over 20 XBHs. He went 2-17 over the first 5 games of 2020, including 0 hits in his first 13 at-bats, but finished 11-40 (.275) before the season was cancelled. You’re trying to combine 2 slow starts as one streak when that’s disingenuous. You also used K/BB ratio as your measurement for his patience compared to other players on the team, when I literally explained the reason why his strikeout numbers are surprisingly high given his patience. He sees more pitchers per at bat, which leads to seeing more pitches in 2 strike counts, which leads to more strikeouts. The data isn’t traced at the college level, but pitchers per at bat is the stat you’re looking for there. And Colin’s is much higher than the team average. Colin is a slow starter, but trends upwards as the season progresses. You’re cherry picking your numbers and ignoring the trend that he has showed over 2 different seasons.

As far as the fielding numbers you’ve provided, you also ignored the fact that OFers have much fewer fielding chances than other players on the field, meaning every error they make much more drastically impacts their F%. I’m not sure where you got your fielding stats from for 2020 because I can’t seem to find them. But I’ll just take 2021’s stats as an example. Colin has the most chances as an OFer with 18. That’s tied for 6th most on the team. The current team fielding % is .954. If Colin had made just 1 singular error this year in 18 chances his fielding percentage would be .944 and below team average. Comparing someone’s fielding percentage to the team’s (especially as an outfielder) is a terrible way to determine someone’s defensive value. Malloy has been praised for his defensive efforts since he got here, yet his fielding percentage is below team average. Colin is the best defensive outfielder on the team. I said he’s not on Nick Wilhite’s level because Nick was one of the best OFers in the country. Colin isn’t on that level, but he’s still the best that’s currently on the roster.

All the while you’re still ignoring the contributions he brings to the team’s mentality and energy levels. Your post did strike a nerve with me, because you’re insinuating that CDH is playing favorites by playing his son over more deserving players. That’s insulting to everyone that’s involved with the program.

2021 Stats
2020 Stats

Well if we know that Colin always starts slow, then why not give a few other guys some starts in the beginning of the season when apparently it’s known that he can’t hit? Especially when we start conference play in Week 2?

I used SO:BB ratio because you can’t just praise a guy for his patience and completely discount his K numbers just to support your point. If you can find numbers to support his pitch counts being significantly higher than other guys I think that would certainly be a good argument in his favor. I’m a guy that loves pitch count disparities in weekend series. But the box score stats don’t necessarily support your assertion so I’d want to see numbers before accepting this argument.

I agree the fielding numbers are essentially meaningless with a small sample size. That’s why I said it in my post. Yes I understand baseball and how fielding works. I do find it interesting that you can assess that Hall is “easily the best OF” with these small sample sizes.

Agree that fielding percentage shouldn’t be compared across positions for this small of a sample size. However, I don’t know how else to discuss your assessment of him being the best defensive OF (I guess other than Wilhite you said).

You’re correct I can’t quantify what he brings to the team with his leadership and energy. I’d hope he could bring those from the field and the dugout regardless of whether he’s starting every game. But agree that was not accounted for in my OP.
 

JacketOff

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Well if we know that Colin always starts slow, then why not give a few other guys some starts in the beginning of the season when apparently it’s known that he can’t hit? Especially when we start conference play in Week 2?
Because if Colin isn’t getting enough ABs his slow streak will either extend further into the season, or he’ll never get out of it all. The team is 6-1 and 3-0 in conference, averaging over 8 runs a game. I think the offense is fine how it is for now.

I used SO:BB ratio because you can’t just praise a guy for his patience and completely discount his K numbers just to support your point. If you can find numbers to support his pitch counts being significantly higher than other guys I think that would certainly be a good argument in his favor. I’m a guy that loves pitch count disparities in weekend series. But the box score stats don’t necessarily support your assertion so I’d want to see numbers before accepting this argument.
I’m not sure why you would think looking at box score totals would tell you anything about how an individual player’s plate appearances affect the opposing team’s pitch totals. Like I said, pitches/plate appearance is not tracked at the college level (at least it’s not available for public viewing.) Thats the stat that matters. If you just watch the games and watch Colin’s at bats it’s fairly obvious he’s seeing more pitches on average than basically everyone else in the lineup. If you watch the lineup roll through a couple of times, you’ll notice that this is a consistent trend from AB to AB and game to game. I have no way of knowing or showing you the hard data to back that statement up unless I went back and watched every pitch from every game which I won’t be doing. But just by watching the games it’s easy to see how/why this statement is much more true than it is false.

I agree the fielding numbers are essentially meaningless with a small sample size. That’s why I said it in my post. Yes I understand baseball and how fielding works. I do find it interesting that you can assess that Hall is “easily the best OF” with these small sample sizes.

Agree that fielding percentage shouldn’t be compared across positions for this small of a sample size. However, I don’t know how else to discuss your assessment of him being the best defensive OF (I guess other than Wilhite you said).
I think you may have forgotten that Nick Wilhite is no longer on the team, which I guess could’ve been the cause of some of your confusion re: the best outfielder. You seem to want to use hard data to back everything your saying up, even when that data has a tendency to be flawed given the small sample sizes. But since you did provide last year’s fielding stats that I couldn’t find (thank you, btw) I took a look at them. Colin made 1 error last year in 24 chances. Guldberg and Turley were the only 2 players to have more than 20 fielding chances without an error. You cannot base your determination on who is a better fielder based on fielding percentage, especially in the outfield. There aren’t enough stats tracked in college baseball to analytically determine who a better fielder is. This is possible in MLB when you have stats like DRS, fWAR, RZR, and the whole host of metrics that are tracked by places like Fangraphs. This sort of data simply isn’t available at the college level so you have to rely mostly on the eye test. I’ve seen all of our current outfielders enough to know that Colin is easily the best available. Tres is a somewhat close second as far as tracking fly balls, but Colin’s arm gives him the edge. Deleo is a superior OF talent than Reid, but Reid’s bat ensures he’s going to be in the lineup. Taking Colin out of the lineup means you have a worse OF with little to no extra upside at the dish.
You’re correct I can’t quantify what he brings to the team with his leadership and energy. I’d hope he could bring those from the field and the dugout regardless of whether he’s starting every game. But agree that was not accounted for in my OP.
I also can’t quantify what he brings as far as energy and leadership goes. It’s something that only the guys in the dugout and on the field can tell you about how it affects them. But I can promise you that it’s impossible to bring that level of energy if you aren’t in the lineup. Like I said, it’s not necessarily what Colin says that brings energy, but what he does in the field. Look at that Waddell quote. Look the team reacts when Colin makes a big play or gets a big hit. Look how much energy Colin brings to the team after said moment. It’s unquantifiable, but it’s important, and it’s obvious to everyone on the team.
 

gtrower

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Well it seems we’ll get nowhere here. Because every stat that shows he isn’t hitting well you discount as small sample size. And everything you say would show him doing other things well either isn’t quantifiable or isn’t tracked.

My only fresh problem with what you wrote was the “offense is fine as it is for now” because we’re 6-1 and averaging 8 runs. Teetering into 0/10 losing mentality territory.
 

FittedJacket

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have a go at these numbers..strongest arm? Best outfielder?
 

JacketOff

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Well it seems we’ll get nowhere here. Because every stat that shows he isn’t hitting well you discount as small sample size. And everything you say would show him doing other things well either isn’t quantifiable or isn’t tracked.

My only fresh problem with what you wrote was the “offense is fine as it is for now” because we’re 6-1 and averaging 8 runs. Teetering into 0/10 losing mentality territory.
Lol. I gave you hard numbers on the offensive side and defensive side to counter your arguments. As well as stating intangibles that are backed up by coaches’ comments (good plate appearances, driving up pitch counts) and players’ comments (Waddell and others talking about the energy Colin brings). You provided cherry picked data with flawed numbers and called it a day. What happened to if it ain’t broke don’t fix it? Maybe stick with basketball and I’ll stick with baseball.
 

augustabuzz

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You must be solid up the middle defensively. CF is a key cog in the defense. I don't worry about bats in NCAA baseball until St Patrick's Day. Pitchers are supposed to be ahead at this time.
 

FittedJacket

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Are you trying to suggest that numbers from a PG showcase when Colin was 17 years old are indicative of the player he is now?
without knowing who those numbers belong to we no longer like numbers in small sample sizes. It’s all good i just said have a go at them.
 
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