Clemson Preview -- Pts/Drive

AE 87

Helluva Engineer
Messages
13,016
Ok, for those who don't know, I calculate a Pts/Drive stat for offense and defense. It's based on 7pts for every scrimmage (rushing or passing) TD scored for offense or allowed for defense. So, special-teams and turnover scores as well as safeties are not counted. Obviously, made FG's count 3. Drives are every possession which ends with a TD, FG attempt, punt, failed fourth-down, or lost turnover. So, safeties and end-of-half possessions don't count as drives (unless there's a score as time expires).

Here are the game by game pts/drive for Clemson in 2018:

upload_2019-8-21_14-27-30.png


While I didn't calculate end of year PPDvPwr5 for all of Div 1 last year, Clemson's PPDvPwr5 averages are obviously incredible. Those 3.25 offense and 1.06 defense ppd stats against pwr5 for the season are each typically top 5 averages. After NC State, these averages go to 3.44 and 0.96, resulting in an average differential of 2.48. An average differential of 1.00 is typically top 10, IIRC.

For those who act as if Duke is still Duke, you might want to see how Clemson's O performed against them compared to their average against Pwr5 opponents last year.

If you look at our performance against Clemson, then, it appears that they scored 18% better against our defense than their average, and we scored 65% better against them than they allowed on average. Obviously, that didn't mean much when they were so good.

I suspect that the general wisdom which ranks us so low this year is that our D was limited by talent and our O was benefited by scheme. With that assumption, we are not projected to be better on either side of the ball.

However, I think that we've heard a lot to suggest that our D was limited by coaching (let's just leave it at that), and that Collins/Thatcher have had a lot of success producing quality D's. So, I'm looking for decent improvement on D, even in our first game. I do think that our our O was benefited by scheme, but I don't think our talent is that bad. I'm hoping our offensive efficiency only drops off a bit.

Clemson's PPD averages are just insane. I think it will again take them some time to get rolling on both offense (and I know they started last season with 2QBs) and defense (losing starters in front 7, but they played a lot of guys). So, I'm going to guestimate that CU's baseline O is 2.90 PPDvPwr5 and D is 1.25 PPDvPwr5.

So, if our D is 20% better than average rather than 18% worse, then we'll hold them to ~2.4 ppd. If our O is only 20% better than average rather than 65%, then we'll score 1.5 ppd.

As a result, if we each have 14 drives, then the final score would be CU 34 - GT 21. However, we also get a Juanyeh Thomas KR score and also somehow limit them to only 13 drives because of the end of half end of game, so that makes it 31-28. On top of that, we go for 2 after all four TD's and win 32-31.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
Ok, for those who don't know, I calculate a Pts/Drive stat for offense and defense. It's based on 7pts for every scrimmage (rushing or passing) TD scored for offense or allowed for defense. So, special-teams and turnover scores as well as safeties are not counted. Obviously, made FG's count 3. Drives are every possession which ends with a TD, FG attempt, punt, failed fourth-down, or lost turnover. So, safeties and end-of-half possessions don't count as drives (unless there's a score as time expires).

Here are the game by game pts/drive for Clemson in 2018:

View attachment 6493

While I didn't calculate end of year PPDvPwr5 for all of Div 1 last year, Clemson's PPDvPwr5 averages are obviously incredible. Those 3.25 offense and 1.06 defense ppd stats against pwr5 for the season are each typically top 5 averages. After NC State, these averages go to 3.44 and 0.96, resulting in an average differential of 2.48. An average differential of 1.00 is typically top 10, IIRC.

For those who act as if Duke is still Duke, you might want to see how Clemson's O performed against them compared to their average against Pwr5 opponents last year.

If you look at our performance against Clemson, then, it appears that they scored 18% better against our defense than their average, and we scored 65% better against them than they allowed on average. Obviously, that didn't mean much when they were so good.

I suspect that the general wisdom which ranks us so low this year is that our D was limited by talent and our O was benefited by scheme. With that assumption, we are not projected to be better on either side of the ball.

However, I think that we've heard a lot to suggest that our D was limited by coaching (let's just leave it at that), and that Collins/Thatcher have had a lot of success producing quality D's. So, I'm looking for decent improvement on D, even in our first game. I do think that our our O was benefited by scheme, but I don't think our talent is that bad. I'm hoping our offensive efficiency only drops off a bit.

Clemson's PPD averages are just insane. I think it will again take them some time to get rolling on both offense (and I know they started last season with 2QBs) and defense (losing starters in front 7, but they played a lot of guys). So, I'm going to guestimate that CU's baseline O is 2.90 PPDvPwr5 and D is 1.25 PPDvPwr5.

So, if our D is 20% better than average rather than 18% worse, then we'll hold them to ~2.4 ppd. If our O is only 20% better than average rather than 65%, then we'll score 1.5 ppd.

As a result, if we each have 14 drives, then the final score would be CU 34 - GT 21. However, we also get a Juanyeh Thomas KR score and also somehow limit them to only 13 drives because of the end of half end of game, so that makes it 31-28. On top of that, we go for 2 after all four TD's and win 32-31.

LOL about Duke. I mean Clemson won 35-6. Duke never got into the end zone. Clemson played 12 opponents who at least got into the end zone once. Duke hasn't had a winning record in ACC play in 5 years.
 

takethepoints

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,914
Very useful data analysis. Not surprising, of course; we knew they were good already. Just how good is a bit depressing, but there it is. Everybody is so not looking forward to playing these guys.

Oth, I think there's chance - not much of one, given the way Dabo thinks about us - that we'll surprise them. Not enough to win, but enough to keep things a lot closer then folks anticipate.
 

Deleted member 2897

Guest
The other thing we have to keep in mind is that they do this to everybody. Even if you totally throw away the Clemson and Georgia games and we lose 100-0 and 100-0, we can still win:
* 10 games (10-2 regular season, lose in ACCCG, lose in bowl game)
* 11 games (10-2 regular season, win either ACCCG or in the bowl game)
* 12 games (10-2 regular season, win ACCCG and bowl game)
* 13 games (10-2 regular season, win ACCCG, make the CFP, and win out)

Its a MASSIVE drop off in quality of opponent after Clemson and Georgia. There will likely only be 1-2 other very good teams in the regular season tops. We play 10 teams who won 6+ games in the regular season last year, but Temple and USF would fit right into the Coastal - a big mix of tossup games. If we're good enough to beat all the average (and worse) teams, we can still win 8-10 games even if Clemson and Georgia are total suck.
 

Skeptic

Helluva Engineer
Messages
6,372
Ok, for those who don't know, I calculate a Pts/Drive stat for offense and defense. It's based on 7pts for every scrimmage (rushing or passing) TD scored for offense or allowed for defense. So, special-teams and turnover scores as well as safeties are not counted. Obviously, made FG's count 3. Drives are every possession which ends with a TD, FG attempt, punt, failed fourth-down, or lost turnover. So, safeties and end-of-half possessions don't count as drives (unless there's a score as time expires).

Here are the game by game pts/drive for Clemson in 2018:

View attachment 6493

While I didn't calculate end of year PPDvPwr5 for all of Div 1 last year, Clemson's PPDvPwr5 averages are obviously incredible. Those 3.25 offense and 1.06 defense ppd stats against pwr5 for the season are each typically top 5 averages. After NC State, these averages go to 3.44 and 0.96, resulting in an average differential of 2.48. An average differential of 1.00 is typically top 10, IIRC.

For those who act as if Duke is still Duke, you might want to see how Clemson's O performed against them compared to their average against Pwr5 opponents last year.

If you look at our performance against Clemson, then, it appears that they scored 18% better against our defense than their average, and we scored 65% better against them than they allowed on average. Obviously, that didn't mean much when they were so good.

I suspect that the general wisdom which ranks us so low this year is that our D was limited by talent and our O was benefited by scheme. With that assumption, we are not projected to be better on either side of the ball.

However, I think that we've heard a lot to suggest that our D was limited by coaching (let's just leave it at that), and that Collins/Thatcher have had a lot of success producing quality D's. So, I'm looking for decent improvement on D, even in our first game. I do think that our our O was benefited by scheme, but I don't think our talent is that bad. I'm hoping our offensive efficiency only drops off a bit.

Clemson's PPD averages are just insane. I think it will again take them some time to get rolling on both offense (and I know they started last season with 2QBs) and defense (losing starters in front 7, but they played a lot of guys). So, I'm going to guestimate that CU's baseline O is 2.90 PPDvPwr5 and D is 1.25 PPDvPwr5.

So, if our D is 20% better than average rather than 18% worse, then we'll hold them to ~2.4 ppd. If our O is only 20% better than average rather than 65%, then we'll score 1.5 ppd.

As a result, if we each have 14 drives, then the final score would be CU 34 - GT 21. However, we also get a Juanyeh Thomas KR score and also somehow limit them to only 13 drives because of the end of half end of game, so that makes it 31-28. On top of that, we go for 2 after all four TD's and win 32-31.
Now there you go, making my head hurt. All I wanna know is will we win?
 

iceeater1969

Helluva Engineer
Messages
8,967
Ok, for those who don't know, I calculate a Pts/Drive stat for offense and defense. It's based on 7pts for every scrimmage (rushing or passing) TD scored for offense or allowed for defense. So, special-teams and turnover scores as well as safeties are not counted. Obviously, made FG's count 3. Drives are every possession which ends with a TD, FG attempt, punt, failed fourth-down, or lost turnover. So, safeties and end-of-half possessions don't count as drives (unless there's a score as time expires).

Here are the game by game pts/drive for Clemson in 2018:

View attachment 6493

While I didn't calculate end of year PPDvPwr5 for all of Div 1 last year, Clemson's PPDvPwr5 averages are obviously incredible. Those 3.25 offense and 1.06 defense ppd stats against pwr5 for the season are each typically top 5 averages. After NC State, these averages go to 3.44 and 0.96, resulting in an average differential of 2.48. An average differential of 1.00 is typically top 10, IIRC.

For those who act as if Duke is still Duke, you might want to see how Clemson's O performed against them compared to their average against Pwr5 opponents last year.

If you look at our performance against Clemson, then, it appears that they scored 18% better against our defense than their average, and we scored 65% better against them than they allowed on average. Obviously, that didn't mean much when they were so good.

I suspect that the general wisdom which ranks us so low this year is that our D was limited by talent and our O was benefited by scheme. With that assumption, we are not projected to be better on either side of the ball.

However, I think that we've heard a lot to suggest that our D was limited by coaching (let's just leave it at that), and that Collins/Thatcher have had a lot of success producing quality D's. So, I'm looking for decent improvement on D, even in our first game. I do think that our our O was benefited by scheme, but I don't think our talent is that bad. I'm hoping our offensive efficiency only drops off a bit.

Clemson's PPD averages are just insane. I think it will again take them some time to get rolling on both offense (and I know they started last season with 2QBs) and defense (losing starters in front 7, but they played a lot of guys). So, I'm going to guestimate that CU's baseline O is 2.90 PPDvPwr5 and D is 1.25 PPDvPwr5.

So, if our D is 20% better than average rather than 18% worse, then we'll hold them to ~2.4 ppd. If our O is only 20% better than average rather than 65%, then we'll score 1.5 ppd.

As a result, if we each have 14 drives, then the final score would be CU 34 - GT 21. However, we also get a Juanyeh Thomas KR score and also somehow limit them to only 13 drives because of the end of half end of game, so that makes it 31-28. On top of that, we go for 2 after all four TD's and win 32-31.
You left out - The last time we beat Clemson w had 2 pic 6. !!

But the clemson Ol are seniors and our dl has zip experience. Clemson has great qb with super wr s and a good rb so they can move the ball at will against us unless cgc gets chaotic AND LUCKY.

Good write up - i knew they were good last year ( when our ol could not move their dl), but your numbers show they were great team.
 

YellowJacketFan2018

Helluva Engineer
Messages
9,022
Location
Southeast Tennessee
Here's how i think Clemson will do this season

Georgia Tech W
Texas A&M L
@Syracuse W
Charlotte W
@North Carolina W
FSU W
@Louisville W
Boston College W
Wofford W
@NCSU W
Wake Forest W
@South Carolina W

ACC Championship Game: Clemson beats Virginia

Orange Bowl: Clemson beats Oklahoma

National Championship Game: Clemson beats Alabama
 

Beerbrewingjacket

Georgia Tech Fan
Messages
84
Here's how i think Clemson will do this season

Georgia Tech W
Texas A&M L
@Syracuse W
Charlotte W
@North Carolina W
FSU W
@Louisville W
Boston College W
Wofford W
@NCSU W
Wake Forest W
@South Carolina W

ACC Championship Game: Clemson beats Virginia

Orange Bowl: Clemson beats Oklahoma

National Championship Game: Clemson beats Alabama

Clemson has a better chance losing to Cuse than TAMU
 

gt13

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
544
Here's how i think Clemson will do this season

Georgia Tech L
Texas A&M W
@Syracuse W
Charlotte W
@North Carolina W
FSU W
@Louisville W
Boston College W
Wofford W
@NCSU W
Wake Forest W
@South Carolina W

ACC Championship Game: Clemson loses to GT

Chickfila Bowl: Clemson beats Auburn

National Championship Game: GT beats Alabama

FIFY

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

jchens_GT

Ramblin' Wreck
Messages
573
Location
Georgia
Ok, for those who don't know, I calculate a Pts/Drive stat for offense and defense. It's based on 7pts for every scrimmage (rushing or passing) TD scored for offense or allowed for defense. So, special-teams and turnover scores as well as safeties are not counted. Obviously, made FG's count 3. Drives are every possession which ends with a TD, FG attempt, punt, failed fourth-down, or lost turnover. So, safeties and end-of-half possessions don't count as drives (unless there's a score as time expires).

Here are the game by game pts/drive for Clemson in 2018:

View attachment 6493

While I didn't calculate end of year PPDvPwr5 for all of Div 1 last year, Clemson's PPDvPwr5 averages are obviously incredible. Those 3.25 offense and 1.06 defense ppd stats against pwr5 for the season are each typically top 5 averages. After NC State, these averages go to 3.44 and 0.96, resulting in an average differential of 2.48. An average differential of 1.00 is typically top 10, IIRC.

For those who act as if Duke is still Duke, you might want to see how Clemson's O performed against them compared to their average against Pwr5 opponents last year.

If you look at our performance against Clemson, then, it appears that they scored 18% better against our defense than their average, and we scored 65% better against them than they allowed on average. Obviously, that didn't mean much when they were so good.

I suspect that the general wisdom which ranks us so low this year is that our D was limited by talent and our O was benefited by scheme. With that assumption, we are not projected to be better on either side of the ball.

However, I think that we've heard a lot to suggest that our D was limited by coaching (let's just leave it at that), and that Collins/Thatcher have had a lot of success producing quality D's. So, I'm looking for decent improvement on D, even in our first game. I do think that our our O was benefited by scheme, but I don't think our talent is that bad. I'm hoping our offensive efficiency only drops off a bit.

Clemson's PPD averages are just insane. I think it will again take them some time to get rolling on both offense (and I know they started last season with 2QBs) and defense (losing starters in front 7, but they played a lot of guys). So, I'm going to guestimate that CU's baseline O is 2.90 PPDvPwr5 and D is 1.25 PPDvPwr5.

So, if our D is 20% better than average rather than 18% worse, then we'll hold them to ~2.4 ppd. If our O is only 20% better than average rather than 65%, then we'll score 1.5 ppd.

As a result, if we each have 14 drives, then the final score would be CU 34 - GT 21. However, we also get a Juanyeh Thomas KR score and also somehow limit them to only 13 drives because of the end of half end of game, so that makes it 31-28. On top of that, we go for 2 after all four TD's and win 32-31.

Actual stats related to an actual, upcoming opponent. Thanks for the post! The season is upon us....
 

g0lftime

Helluva Engineer
Messages
5,433
Read an article about how clemson was disguising defensive looks against Bama and Tug???. He was not able to pick up their shifts in secondary coverages. Veneables
(sp?) did a great job preparing for Bama.
 

boger2337

Helluva Engineer
Messages
3,356
Read an article about how clemson was disguising defensive looks against Bama and Tug???. He was not able to pick up their shifts in secondary coverages. Veneables
(sp?) did a great job preparing for Bama.


My question is how does Clemson prep for us? Do they just trust they will be far superior talent wise and can beat us on a base defense?

Does coach P run different stuff from what he ran at temple to fit our players strengths. I've heard Coach Collins talk about playing to players strengths, but is that more for defense?

If we can't get 2 turnovers next week I will be slightly disappointed.

The offense should have an advantage compared to last year's. There is no tape. As long as coach P doesn't run verbatim what he did at Temple.
 
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