Clemson Postgame

[Northeast Stinger]

Call it what you will, its stupid easy to see the run worked, the QB runs and passes did not.

We continued to call plays that had little to no chance to work.

Why abandon the run on 3rd or 4th down when it works?

You may have a point, however, I believe our first touchdown was a QB run.

 

[awbuzz]

Folks seem to continue to think scheme cancels physical superiority. On occasion it can, but not usually. CPJ got waxed by LSU in the 2008 Peach Bowl due to LSU’s physical superiority. Just one of several examples. We were soundly beaten by a physically superior team yesterday.

This ^^

I remember seeing both teams go through the fan area. I'd swear that if you were to line up both teams facing each other with biggest to smallest in line, tech would have had to shift it over to 30 - 40 players before things would even out. They were much larger than we were across the board.

 

[Bogey]

This ^^

I remember seeing both teams go through the fan area. I'd swear that if you were to line up both teams facing each other with biggest to smallest in line, tech would have had to shift it over to 30 - 40 players before things would even out. They were much larger than we were across the board.

This ^^
I was at ND in 2021 and saw both teams get off the bus up close. It was astonishing to see the difference in the 2 teams. We only seemed to have about 8 or 10 guys that would even compare to ND. And the weight of our biggest linemen was due to flab, not muscle. You can't fix all of this in one season.

 

[BuzzStone]

This ^^
I was at ND in 2021 and saw both teams get off the bus up close. It was astonishing to see the difference in the 2 teams. We only seemed to have about 8 or 10 guys that would even compare to ND. And the weight of our biggest linemen was due to flab, not muscle. You can't fix all of this in one season.

I remember the last trip we made to FSU. I was shocked how big they were compared to us. We still got the W but they were boys playing grown men that day.

 

[g0lftime]

I will say that Biggers has really changed to look more fit than even last year. He obviously has been working on his S&C. He played well in the first quarter. The entire DL looked gassed in the second half.

 

[sgreer]

This ^^

I remember seeing both teams go through the fan area. I'd swear that if you were to line up both teams facing each other with biggest to smallest in line, tech would have had to shift it over to 30 - 40 players before things would even out. They were much larger than we were across the board.

I was sitting behind the LSU bench that game and was wondering how they could have lost any games with physical specimens they had. Once they lined up against Tech you could really see the difference.

 

[Lil G]

I will say that Biggers has really changed to look more fit than even last year. He obviously has been working on his S&C. He played well in the first quarter. The entire DL looked gassed in the second half.

He looks more athletic every year. If his progress stays linear, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s all ACC next year.

 

[slugboy]

Here's a nugget from the game--the "middle 8" stats. You can find the definition online if you look for "middle 8 advanced stat football"--Belichick decided that if you win the 4 minutes before halftime and the four minutes after halftime, you take your opponent off the field for about an "hour of real time". So, he could take Payton Manning out of his rhythm if he controlled the middle 8 minutes.

All the data is from GameOnPaper.

We had the ball towards the end of the second, but our drive faltered. We had a shot to narrow a 21-7 lead going into halftime.

Situational	GT	Clemson
"Middle 8" Plays	7	12
EPA	-4.82	5.33
EPA/play	-0.69	0.44
Passes	3 (43%)	5 (42%)
Rushes	4 (57%)	7 (58%)
Successful Passes (Rate)	0 (0%)	3 (60%)
Successful Rushes (Rate)	2 (50%)	4 (57%)

This is about as close as I can get to the plays (not sure what's going on with the timestamps). If I have the timing right, Clemson scores a TD with about a minute left in the second quarter. With 41 seconds, we throw a pick. We fortunately block their field goal afterwards.
Clemson receives the ball to start the third, and drives the ball for four minutes before punting.

There are some things that are wrong with the timestamps, but Clemson did win the middle of the game.

One thing that also happened with UGA against Ole Miss, and happens with a team that recruits in the top 10 or so (multiple 5*'s, offensive and defensive lines full of players that can start for other teams), it that you have to stay even or ahead of them or they just grind you. Alabama does it to teams. Michigan does it to teams. They go about 30 players deep on players who could start for P5 teams, and your starters are in for the entire half. They rotate and they wear you out. Their guys get a breather, while your guys stay in. Our guys were sucking air as we got into the second half--they played their tails off, but depth just starts to wear at you after a while.

You can see some of that here--our defense had been on the field for most of the first half, and they were worn out. Our offense was out of rhythm when they got the ball back.

It's a bigger version of "staying ahead of the chains"--it's "staying ahead of the game". If the offense goes off the field in three plays, they don't get in sync with each other, and they go three-and-out next time. They don't get any rhythm.

On the other side, the 4th down conversions by Clemson were deadly. They kept the defense on the field for longer continuous stretches and just grinded on our players. They just kept pushing until our defenders were exhausted.

I've seen some people talk about strength and conditioning, and that's part of it. What's a bigger part of it is having 8 or more players that can start on the DL, and having multiple players that can start at LB. Out of any position on the field, DL gets rotated more than a lot of other positions. It's not bad coaching to let Biggers rest--the need is to have someone that plays just as well as him when they come in. That's also where the injury to Sylvain Yondjouen earlier this season hurt a lot--we didn't just lose a starter, but we went from having depth to losing depth.

 

[slugboy]

Here's a nugget from the game--the "middle 8" stats. You can find the definition online if you look for "middle 8 advanced stat football"--Belichick decided that if you win the 4 minutes before halftime and the four minutes after halftime, you take your opponent off the field for about an "hour of real time". So, he could take Payton Manning out of his rhythm if he controlled the middle 8 minutes.

All the data is from GameOnPaper.

We had the ball towards the end of the second, but our drive faltered. We had a shot to narrow a 21-7 lead going into halftime.

Situational	GT	Clemson
"Middle 8" Plays	7	12
EPA	-4.82	5.33
EPA/play	-0.69	0.44
Passes	3 (43%)	5 (42%)
Rushes	4 (57%)	7 (58%)
Successful Passes (Rate)	0 (0%)	3 (60%)
Successful Rushes (Rate)	2 (50%)	4 (57%)

This is about as close as I can get to the plays (not sure what's going on with the timestamps). If I have the timing right, Clemson scores a TD with about a minute left in the second quarter. With 41 seconds, we throw a pick. We fortunately block their field goal afterwards.
Clemson receives the ball to start the third, and drives the ball for four minutes before punting.

There are some things that are wrong with the timestamps, but Clemson did win the middle of the game.

One thing that also happened with UGA against Ole Miss, and happens with a team that recruits in the top 10 or so (multiple 5*'s, offensive and defensive lines full of players that can start for other teams), it that you have to stay even or ahead of them or they just grind you. Alabama does it to teams. Michigan does it to teams. They go about 30 players deep on players who could start for P5 teams, and your starters are in for the entire half. They rotate and they wear you out. Their guys get a breather, while your guys stay in. Our guys were sucking air as we got into the second half--they played their tails off, but depth just starts to wear at you after a while.

You can see some of that here--our defense had been on the field for most of the first half, and they were worn out. Our offense was out of rhythm when they got the ball back.

It's a bigger version of "staying ahead of the chains"--it's "staying ahead of the game". If the offense goes off the field in three plays, they don't get in sync with each other, and they go three-and-out next time. They don't get any rhythm.

On the other side, the 4th down conversions by Clemson were deadly. They kept the defense on the field for longer continuous stretches and just grinded on our players. They just kept pushing until our defenders were exhausted.

I've seen some people talk about strength and conditioning, and that's part of it. What's a bigger part of it is having 8 or more players that can start on the DL, and having multiple players that can start at LB. Out of any position on the field, DL gets rotated more than a lot of other positions. It's not bad coaching to let Biggers rest--the need is to have someone that plays just as well as him when they come in. That's also where the injury to Sylvain Yondjouen earlier this season hurt a lot--we didn't just lose a starter, but we went from having depth to losing depth.

Had to split across two posts. Here are the drives from ESPN:

Clemson scores 7, using up 3 of the first 4 minutes of the middle 8.

• 3rd & 18 at CLEM 42​

  (5:19 - 2nd) Cade Klubnik run for 17 yds to the GT 41
• (1:36 - 2nd) Timeout Clemson, clock 01:36

• 4th & 1 at GT 41​

  (1:36 - 2nd) Will Shipley run for 9 yds to the GT 32 for a 1ST down

• 1st & 10 at GT 32​

  (1:09 - 2nd) Will Shipley run for 32 yds for a TD (Jonathan Weitz KICK)

We run 4 plays in 28 seconds, with a dangerous interception

• (1:09 - 2nd) Robert Gunn III kickoff for 65 yds for a touchback

• 1st & 10 at GT 25​

  (1:09 - 2nd) Jamal Haynes run for 4 yds to the GT 29
• (1:01 - 2nd) Timeout Clemson, clock 01:01

• 2nd & 6 at GT 29​

  (1:01 - 2nd) Jamal Haynes run for 2 yds to the GT 31
• (0:55 - 2nd) Timeout Clemson, clock 00:55

• 3rd & 4 at GT 31​

  (0:55 - 2nd) Dontae Smith run for 8 yds to the GT 39 for a 1ST down

• 1st & 10 at GT 39​

  (0:41 - 2nd) Haynes King pass intercepted

We block their kick--good for us--but Clemson owns another 41 seconds of the middle 8

• 1st & 10 at GT 42​

  (0:41 - 2nd) Cade Klubnik pass complete to Beaux Collins for 5 yds to the GT 37

• 2nd & 5 at GT 37​

  (0:41 - 2nd) Cade Klubnik run for 7 yds to the GT 30 for a 1ST down

• 1st & 10 at GT 30​

  (0:41 - 2nd) Cade Klubnik pass incomplete
• (0:07 - 2nd) Timeout Georgia Tech, clock 00:07

• 2nd & 10 at GT 30​

  (0:00 - 2nd) Jonathan Weitz 47 yd FG BLOCKED blocked by Rodney Shelley
• (0:00 - 2nd) End of 2nd Quarter

Clemson burns 3:41 of the first 4 minutes of the second half:

• (15:00 - 3rd) Gavin Stewart kickoff for 65 yds for a touchback

• 1st & 10 at CLEM 25​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Phil Mafah run for 2 yds to the CLEM 27

• 2nd & 8 at CLEM 27​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Cade Klubnik pass complete to Beaux Collins for 15 yds to the CLEM 42 for a 1ST down

• 1st & 10 at CLEM 42​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Cade Klubnik pass complete to Will Shipley for 9 yds to the GT 49

• 2nd & 1 at GT 49​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Phil Mafah run for 9 yds to the GT 40 for a 1ST down

• 1st & 10 at GT 40​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Phil Mafah run for 1 yd to the GT 39

• 2nd & 9 at GT 39​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Phil Mafah run for 2 yds to the GT 41

• 3rd & 11 at GT 41​

  (15:00 - 3rd) Cade Klubnik pass incomplete to Tyler Brown

• 4th & 11 at GT 41​

  (11:19 - 3rd) Aidan Swanson punt for 41 yds for a touchback

And we do nothing with the last snippet of the middle 8

• 1st & 10 at GT 20​

  (11:19 - 3rd) Haynes King run for 1 yd to the GT 19

• 2nd & 11 at GT 19​

  (11:19 - 3rd) Haynes King pass incomplete to Jamal Haynes

• 3rd & 11 at GT 19​

  (11:19 - 3rd) Haynes King pass incomplete to Dominick Blaylock

• 4th & 11 at GT 19​

  (10:38 - 3rd) David Shanahan punt for 33 yds, fair catch by Hamp Greene at the CLEM 48

Note: I’m not saying the middle 8 minutes were the turning point. If there was a turning point, it was probably the first drive Clemson scored on. After that, it was a gradual grind.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Here's a nugget from the game--the "middle 8" stats. You can find the definition online if you look for "middle 8 advanced stat football"--Belichick decided that if you win the 4 minutes before halftime and the four minutes after halftime, you take your opponent off the field for about an "hour of real time". So, he could take Payton Manning out of his rhythm if he controlled the middle 8 minutes.

All the data is from GameOnPaper.

We had the ball towards the end of the second, but our drive faltered. We had a shot to narrow a 21-7 lead going into halftime.

Situational	GT	Clemson
"Middle 8" Plays	7	12
EPA	-4.82	5.33
EPA/play	-0.69	0.44
Passes	3 (43%)	5 (42%)
Rushes	4 (57%)	7 (58%)
Successful Passes (Rate)	0 (0%)	3 (60%)
Successful Rushes (Rate)	2 (50%)	4 (57%)

This is about as close as I can get to the plays (not sure what's going on with the timestamps). If I have the timing right, Clemson scores a TD with about a minute left in the second quarter. With 41 seconds, we throw a pick. We fortunately block their field goal afterwards.
Clemson receives the ball to start the third, and drives the ball for four minutes before punting.

There are some things that are wrong with the timestamps, but Clemson did win the middle of the game.

One thing that also happened with UGA against Ole Miss, and happens with a team that recruits in the top 10 or so (multiple 5*'s, offensive and defensive lines full of players that can start for other teams), it that you have to stay even or ahead of them or they just grind you. Alabama does it to teams. Michigan does it to teams. They go about 30 players deep on players who could start for P5 teams, and your starters are in for the entire half. They rotate and they wear you out. Their guys get a breather, while your guys stay in. Our guys were sucking air as we got into the second half--they played their tails off, but depth just starts to wear at you after a while.

You can see some of that here--our defense had been on the field for most of the first half, and they were worn out. Our offense was out of rhythm when they got the ball back.

It's a bigger version of "staying ahead of the chains"--it's "staying ahead of the game". If the offense goes off the field in three plays, they don't get in sync with each other, and they go three-and-out next time. They don't get any rhythm.

On the other side, the 4th down conversions by Clemson were deadly. They kept the defense on the field for longer continuous stretches and just grinded on our players. They just kept pushing until our defenders were exhausted.

I've seen some people talk about strength and conditioning, and that's part of it. What's a bigger part of it is having 8 or more players that can start on the DL, and having multiple players that can start at LB. Out of any position on the field, DL gets rotated more than a lot of other positions. It's not bad coaching to let Biggers rest--the need is to have someone that plays just as well as him when they come in. That's also where the injury to Sylvain Yondjouen earlier this season hurt a lot--we didn't just lose a starter, but we went from having depth to losing depth.

This is good analysis and explains what I was seeing but couldn’t quite explain. I just knew as soon as we dropped some passes and false started we were in dangerous territory and would lose the entire rhythm of the game if didn’t get back in control of the clock. Clemson is just too good and too deep for us to “miss our turn” as CPJ used to say.

 

[slugboy]

This is good analysis and explains what I was seeing but couldn’t quite explain. I just knew as soon as we dropped some passes and false started we were in dangerous territory and would lose the entire rhythm of the game if didn’t get back in control of the clock. Clemson is just too good and too deep for us to “miss our turn” as CPJ used to say.

It could have been a lot worse--and against a UGA or a FSU it would have been worse, because they would have stuck the dagger in when Clemson couldn't quite pull it off.

If there's something I'd like to see in recruiting and retention, it's getting depth on the lines--especially on the defensive line and at linebacker. It's one thing to have a star player--and I'd love to have all-ACC players in the front 6--but the next man up is so important and getting that next player in to play at a P5 starter level is one big ingredient to our defense being successful.

But on missing our turn--that's been killer in the games we've lost. Our points per drive at Clemson were not good--there were some "garbage time" points at the end where we weren't catching up to them, and I'm glad we scored 21, but we got pushed around. If we don't keep pace or get ahead against a loaded team, we're in trouble.

I think Ole Miss ground us down too--if we'd had more depth, the game could have turned out different. Maybe even Louisville.

 

[Jacket05]

Don't get so defensive. My answer was a quick hitter to the question about why we were passing so much. I actually think the throw to Jamal was low and tough to handle, but that wasn't really relevant to the point I was making.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I actually agree with you that the passing was there for the most part from King. I was just trying to add to your point that the other pass in the first drive should have also been successful. I would have to go back to see if it was low like you said. Regardless, what I specifically recall is that it hit him clearly in the hands but he looked downfield before it got there and ended up losing track of it when he tried to close his hands on it.

The second point was not so much in response to you but to the majority of comments here and other places that only call out Singleton for the dropped passes when there were issues across the board from all the receivers. I realize your call outs of him were because you were focused on the first 2 drives.

 

[Northeast Stinger]

Sorry I wasn't clear. I actually agree with you that the passing was there for the most part from King. I was just trying to add to your point that the other pass in the first drive should have also been successful. I would have to go back to see if it was low like you said. Regardless, what I specifically recall is that it hit him clearly in the hands but he looked downfield before it got there and ended up losing track of it when he tried to close his hands on it.

The second point was not so much in response to you but to the majority of comments here and other places that only call out Singleton for the dropped passes when there were issues across the board from all the receivers. I realize your call outs of him were because you were focused on the first 2 drives.

Yes, dropping passes was contagious. And mentioning Singleton was due to having Clemson on their heels early and letting them off the hook with our own miscues.

 

[stinger78]

Here's a nugget from the game--the "middle 8" stats. You can find the definition online if you look for "middle 8 advanced stat football"--Belichick decided that if you win the 4 minutes before halftime and the four minutes after halftime, you take your opponent off the field for about an "hour of real time". So, he could take Payton Manning out of his rhythm if he controlled the middle 8 minutes.

All the data is from GameOnPaper.

We had the ball towards the end of the second, but our drive faltered. We had a shot to narrow a 21-7 lead going into halftime.

Situational	GT	Clemson
"Middle 8" Plays	7	12
EPA	-4.82	5.33
EPA/play	-0.69	0.44
Passes	3 (43%)	5 (42%)
Rushes	4 (57%)	7 (58%)
Successful Passes (Rate)	0 (0%)	3 (60%)
Successful Rushes (Rate)	2 (50%)	4 (57%)

This is about as close as I can get to the plays (not sure what's going on with the timestamps). If I have the timing right, Clemson scores a TD with about a minute left in the second quarter. With 41 seconds, we throw a pick. We fortunately block their field goal afterwards.
Clemson receives the ball to start the third, and drives the ball for four minutes before punting.

There are some things that are wrong with the timestamps, but Clemson did win the middle of the game.

One thing that also happened with UGA against Ole Miss, and happens with a team that recruits in the top 10 or so (multiple 5*'s, offensive and defensive lines full of players that can start for other teams), it that you have to stay even or ahead of them or they just grind you. Alabama does it to teams. Michigan does it to teams. They go about 30 players deep on players who could start for P5 teams, and your starters are in for the entire half. They rotate and they wear you out. Their guys get a breather, while your guys stay in. Our guys were sucking air as we got into the second half--they played their tails off, but depth just starts to wear at you after a while.

You can see some of that here--our defense had been on the field for most of the first half, and they were worn out. Our offense was out of rhythm when they got the ball back.

It's a bigger version of "staying ahead of the chains"--it's "staying ahead of the game". If the offense goes off the field in three plays, they don't get in sync with each other, and they go three-and-out next time. They don't get any rhythm.

On the other side, the 4th down conversions by Clemson were deadly. They kept the defense on the field for longer continuous stretches and just grinded on our players. They just kept pushing until our defenders were exhausted.

I've seen some people talk about strength and conditioning, and that's part of it. What's a bigger part of it is having 8 or more players that can start on the DL, and having multiple players that can start at LB. Out of any position on the field, DL gets rotated more than a lot of other positions. It's not bad coaching to let Biggers rest--the need is to have someone that plays just as well as him when they come in. That's also where the injury to Sylvain Yondjouen earlier this season hurt a lot--we didn't just lose a starter, but we went from having depth to losing depth.

Yes. I still think that the game was remotely winnable, however, we would have had to complete those early passes, and drives, and take a 2-plus score lead. CU’s O is not fast moving, it is plodding. Opening a lead early would have forced them out of their plan. As it were, we got forced out of ours.