Clemson Game 12/21/2022 7:30 PM

[Aanderson1839]

I stopped watching and just checked in a few times. What are we running on offense? It just looks awful and terribly boring to watch. Bleh.

 

[bigrabbit]

I was there - fun watching the PJ dude score at will under the basket.
We mostly couldn’t shoot, some of that was good defense from Clemson. Missed FTs were frustrating.
One goofy game or dance thing after another to try and keep us entertained. Scary to imagine attendance if this keeps up.

 

[Golden Tornadoes]

I’m just tired of watching offensive sets that have player movement for the sake of player movement. These guys are cutting because that’s what the play calls for, not for the purpose of getting open. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve screamed at the TV when there are two or three of our guys within arms length of each other on offense. Our spacing is awful, and you can’t run a successful offense without spacing. If Pastner is so insistent on running this modified Princeton instead of molding to the players, why don’t we use Kelly or Moore at the elbow and let Howard sit at the dunkers spot? Or, play Moore at the 5 and run a 5 out? Or run the horns set that we’ve seen a few times and put Kelly and Moore at the elbow? Just try something to get guys moving with the purpose of scoring!!

Also, REBOUND THE BALL!!!! I know you aren’t going to get many rebounds giving up 50% on FGs, but you still shouldn’t be getting out rebounded the majority of nights you play a D1 team. Tonight it was only a 13 rebound difference, but I feel pathetic saying it was only 13.

It’s also glaring that we don’t have a “guy” this year. We don’t have that guy who can put the team on his back and will them to victory. We don’t have a guy who can single handedly shut down their best scorer. We lack “that dude”…..and it shows.

 

[OG-T]

I think we have the players to definitively compete for a mid-ACC position. But Pastner’s coaching this year deserves a C- at best. His insistence to run the high post Princeton through guys that are simply not comfortable or capable is mind-boggling, and he has supporters rightfully questioning his ability to X and O. Franklin and Howard are contributing players when positioned to their strengths. Why is Pastner SO stubborn? His lack of foresight or imagination will dig us too deep to escape this season. For this, I 100% blame Pastner. He’s a capable coach. He develops talent. But hasn’t developed his ability to create a style to fit the current roster. He knew what we had on the floor at the 4 and 5. Yet, he wouldn’t adapt for his current roster that’s unfit to run Princeton. Soon, He’ll trot out the “it’s too late in season to up-end the offensive scheme” as tho we would adjust had we known - watch for this narrative, it’s coming.

I like Moore A LOT - said early last
season that he’d be the best of his class. It’s even more clear now. However, I did think Deebo would be leading scorer this year. Something seems WAY off with him. Hate to see that, hope he snaps back; he seems a 1/2 step slow on everything.

 

[Steverc]

43 / 21 / 61
Anybody know what these numbers are?

Spoiler

If you guessed the FG%, 3P%, and FT% of a “really good shooting team,” COME ON DOWN! You’ve just won a front row ticket to watch Josh’s fun and quirky press conferences. How fun and quirky is that?!?!

My age when my back started hurting, my age when my back felt fine, and my age when I will need a wheel chair.

 

[bke1984]

I’m starting to think losing coach Rev was a big blow to this team.

 

[gtbync]

I’m starting to think losing coach Rev was a big blow to this team.

Coach Rev was coaching last year and look what the team did, his departure don't have anything to do with what we are seeing.

 

[kg01]

Coach Rev was coaching last year and look what the team did, his departure don't have anything to do with what we are seeing.

Which GT asst coach is more overrated, Giff Smith for the one recruiting class he allegedly assembled or Reveno for his big man stuff.

 

[Hjacket]

I’m just tired of watching offensive sets that have player movement for the sake of player movement. These guys are cutting because that’s what the play calls for, not for the purpose of getting open. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve screamed at the TV when there are two or three of our guys within arms length of each other on offense. Our spacing is awful, and you can’t run a successful offense without spacing. If Pastner is so insistent on running this modified Princeton instead of molding to the players, why don’t we use Kelly or Moore at the elbow and let Howard sit at the dunkers spot? Or, play Moore at the 5 and run a 5 out? Or run the horns set that we’ve seen a few times and put Kelly and Moore at the elbow? Just try something to get guys moving with the purpose of scoring!!

Also, REBOUND THE BALL!!!! I know you aren’t going to get many rebounds giving up 50% on FGs, but you still shouldn’t be getting out rebounded the majority of nights you play a D1 team. Tonight it was only a 13 rebound difference, but I feel pathetic saying it was only 13.

It’s also glaring that we don’t have a “guy” this year. We don’t have that guy who can put the team on his back and will them to victory. We don’t have a guy who can single handedly shut down their best scorer. We lack “that dude”…..and it shows.

What is head scratching to me is that the coaches see the offense, see how the defense is playing us, see that our guys cannot cut effectively, see that we are not getting good shots and then...do nothing to change it up. The personnel we have does not fit the offense we insist on running. I would love to see some of what is suggested here. Will it make us good? Doubtful. But at least, DO SOMETHING. Also, last night was the first time I saw a Pastner team play will less than full effort. We pretty much packed it in as Clemson was setting records for uncontested dunks and layups . I left with 12 minutes to go. Never done that before.

 

[Rzunz]

I’m just tired of watching offensive sets that have player movement for the sake of player movement. These guys are cutting because that’s what the play calls for, not for the purpose of getting open. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve screamed at the TV when there are two or three of our guys within arms length of each other on offense. Our spacing is awful, and you can’t run a successful offense without spacing. If Pastner is so insistent on running this modified Princeton instead of molding to the players, why don’t we use Kelly or Moore at the elbow and let Howard sit at the dunkers spot? Or, play Moore at the 5 and run a 5 out? Or run the horns set that we’ve seen a few times and put Kelly and Moore at the elbow? Just try something to get guys moving with the purpose of scoring!!

Also, REBOUND THE BALL!!!! I know you aren’t going to get many rebounds giving up 50% on FGs, but you still shouldn’t be getting out rebounded the majority of nights you play a D1 team. Tonight it was only a 13 rebound difference, but I feel pathetic saying it was only 13.

It’s also glaring that we don’t have a “guy” this year. We don’t have that guy who can put the team on his back and will them to victory. We don’t have a guy who can single handedly shut down their best scorer. We lack “that dude”…..and it shows.

I think Kelly is the closest we have to that “guy” and it appears that he wants to be that “guy”. He is still learning and growing into it. He takes some pretty bad shots while trying too hard to be that “guy” IMHO. But, the potential is definitely there…

 

[LargeFO]

Are we still on the get old stay old part of the ride?

 

[Peacone36]

I was there - fun watching the PJ dude score at will under the basket.
We mostly couldn’t shoot, some of that was good defense from Clemson. Missed FTs were frustrating.
One goofy game or dance thing after another to try and keep us entertained. Scary to imagine attendance if this keeps up.

Had the opportunity to speak to PJ and his mom for Busting Brackets when he was still a prep. We were right there until the end. He is a very talented big man that would have been perfect in our system. Would have fit that role Big Ben excelled in.

 

[gtgaas]

Had the opportunity to speak to PJ and his mom for Busting Brackets when he was still a prep. We were right there until the end. He is a very talented big man that would have been perfect in our system. Would have fit that role Big Ben excelled in.

Peacone - IIRC, the deal breaker for GT with PJ's mom was all the Bell stuff - but that could have just been Internet gossip.

 

[YlJacket]

What is head scratching to me is that the coaches see the offense, see how the defense is playing us, see that our guys cannot cut effectively, see that we are not getting good shots and then...do nothing to change it up. The personnel we have does not fit the offense we insist on running. I would love to see some of what is suggested here. Will it make us good? Doubtful. But at least, DO SOMETHING. Also, last night was the first time I saw a Pastner team play will less than full effort. We pretty much packed it in as Clemson was setting records for uncontested dunks and layups . I left with 12 minutes to go. Never done that before.

The playmaker talent we do have on this team is on the wings and PG. The obvious weakness on this team is in the post. We don't have a real 4 (stretch or classic) so the 4 has essentially become another wing.

So instead of running an offense through our strength we make the weakest part of our team the playmaker. Makes no f'n sense to me - and as you say why Pastner set it up that way in the preseason and has not changed anything since the obvious results on the court is beyond me. I keep saying it but we generally play in a phone booth from top of the key through the lane with 2-3 defenders already there waiting on the drive from the top of the key. We don't swing the ball from side to side (one of the top advanced metrics for offensive efficiency), we don't generate switches and we don't force any help from the wings so Coleman and his defender sit there talking about classes while 3 guys move in the lane.

To pile onto another post above, there is also no flow or feel to this offense. They are simply cutting/moving to where they think the pattern calls for them to go without thinking. I was laughing out loud last night when Howard got the ball at the elbow - dribbled toward the baseline to hand the ball off - stopped and put the ball out while all 4 other players had moved to the other side of the floor. No one there but he was still supposed to hand it off and by god he was going to do it.

Really sad part is we did run a couple of sets that were "better" - they worked once and then we never went back to them. Howard had a nice pick and roll at the 3 point line on the wing and dunked off the roll easily. We also ran a horn set that forced the ball to the wing. Ran both once.

It isn't hard to run a 4 out style of offense that would spread the floor - put the ball in our guards hands - and make Howard a screening machine with hard rolls (something I think he would be good at). Swing the ball, force switches on picks, make defenses close out in space, all kinds of neat things. Maybe even run Coleman off a few screens to get him moving. Heaven forbid. It ain't that hard.

I do agree that GT packed it in last night. One of the few times I have seen that. I would contend that this goes back to frustration on the offensive end. Clemson knew what we were going to do before we did and simply clogged things up on the top of the key drive. Everything was hard and not successful. It is really hard to play all out on D when the other end sucks the life out of you. I know they should anyway but it's reality.

Last night was a game we really needed to win - or at very very least needed to be highly competitive. To get blown out is really disheartening and makes any idea of bubbly hard to fathom.

 

[Techwood Relict]

It isn't hard to run a 4 out style of offense that would spread the floor - put the ball in our guards hands - and make Howard a screening machine with hard rolls (something I think he would be good at). Swing the ball, force switches on picks, make defenses close out in space, all kinds of neat things. Maybe even run Coleman off a few screens to get him moving. Heaven forbid. It ain't that hard.

Makes my coach brain hurt hoping for something like this. Good call Ylj.

 

[g0lftime]

The playmaker talent we do have on this team is on the wings and PG. The obvious weakness on this team is in the post. We don't have a real 4 (stretch or classic) so the 4 has essentially become another wing.

So instead of running an offense through our strength we make the weakest part of our team the playmaker. Makes no f'n sense to me - and as you say why Pastner set it up that way in the preseason and has not changed anything since the obvious results on the court is beyond me. I keep saying it but we generally play in a phone booth from top of the key through the lane with 2-3 defenders already there waiting on the drive from the top of the key. We don't swing the ball from side to side (one of the top advanced metrics for offensive efficiency), we don't generate switches and we don't force any help from the wings so Coleman and his defender sit there talking about classes while 3 guys move in the lane.

To pile onto another post above, there is also no flow or feel to this offense. They are simply cutting/moving to where they think the pattern calls for them to go without thinking. I was laughing out loud last night when Howard got the ball at the elbow - dribbled toward the baseline to hand the ball off - stopped and put the ball out while all 4 other players had moved to the other side of the floor. No one there but he was still supposed to hand it off and by god he was going to do it.

Really sad part is we did run a couple of sets that were "better" - they worked once and then we never went back to them. Howard had a nice pick and roll at the 3 point line on the wing and dunked off the roll easily. We also ran a horn set that forced the ball to the wing. Ran both once.

It isn't hard to run a 4 out style of offense that would spread the floor - put the ball in our guards hands - and make Howard a screening machine with hard rolls (something I think he would be good at). Swing the ball, force switches on picks, make defenses close out in space, all kinds of neat things. Maybe even run Coleman off a few screens to get him moving. Heaven forbid. It ain't that hard.

I do agree that GT packed it in last night. One of the few times I have seen that. I would contend that this goes back to frustration on the offensive end. Clemson knew what we were going to do before we did and simply clogged things up on the top of the key drive. Everything was hard and not successful. It is really hard to play all out on D when the other end sucks the life out of you. I know they should anyway but it's reality.

Last night was a game we really needed to win - or at very very least needed to be highly competitive. To get blown out is really disheartening and makes any idea of bubbly hard to fathom.

With supposedly shooters on this team, where are the screens to get them open and create switches for better matchups.

IMHO Pastner needs to rethink his staff. They are not doing a good job recruiting specific positions. We have recruited several good wings and not enough 4's and 5's. Our 7 footer is a project. Howard has improved significantly but would likely not start at any other ACC school. I hope to see something change in January to make this team a lot more competitive. Once teams figure out what has worked against us, we will keep seeing it.

 

[Jacket20]

It's time to clean house.

 

[MaverickGT]

It's time to clean house.

This, burn it to the ground

 

[bob4gt]

I happened to be in Atlanta last night and went to the game. The most entertaining thing was watching the short black ref running! He was a high stepper. I thought the team looked very lethargic for the most part.

Tech does not make it easy for walkups, especially for parking.

 

[slugboy]

Really sad part is we did run a couple of sets that were "better" - they worked once and then we never went back to them. Howard had a nice pick and roll at the 3 point line on the wing and dunked off the roll easily. We also ran a horn set that forced the ball to the wing. Ran both once.

It isn't hard to run a 4 out style of offense that would spread the floor - put the ball in our guards hands - and make Howard a screening machine with hard rolls (something I think he would be good at). Swing the ball, force switches on picks, make defenses close out in space, all kinds of neat things. Maybe even run Coleman off a few screens to get him moving. Heaven forbid. It ain't that hard.

Ironically, I'll never forget us trying to run a 5-out and sometimes 4-out offense when we didn't have the players for it. We've run that before under Pastner (it looked terrible at the time).