CDP play calling

[whitegoldsphinx]

Shirtless Searcy is not really relevant. He was an AB.

Dude, you can ad lib to score the TD that beats UGA in Athens, but please don't take your shirt off. Sheesh.

 

[Coloradojacket]

Shirtless Searcy is not really relevant. He was an AB.

My point being our guys didn't look like they were getting stronger.

 

[Skeptic]

The scheme was too complex for the talent and the failure of the OC was to not adjust. And too often we did not have the optimum personnel on the field for the play we attempted (examples Oliver not in to run short yardage, Brown in to block on the wide screen, throwing to a slow tight end attempting to sprint to the sideline on a key third down).

OK, question, seriously: who is responsible for getting the right personnel into the game? Saban went nuts when Auburn pulled a cheap stunt (in my opinion, though both are Alabama teams and so I really don't care) and he wound up with 12 players on the field. Is it the coordinator? the position coach?

 

[takethepoints]

Hold it. You mean Patenaude called plays this year!? But that implies that he had some kind of scheme he was using, doesn't it? I never saw any evidence of that. At all.

 

[MountainBuzzMan]

I get you point, and no doubt you and others on here know a lot more about offenses than I do. I just wonder how many matchups we could have exploited, given our personnel.

My point is that the OC is only one factor affecting the results. Given our personnel issues, using results to prove the incompetence of one factor in those results is inadequate.

Perhaps the OC could have done better, but I doubt the results could have been much better. Thank our lucky stars for Jordan Mason. Without him, we're probably 0-12.

Oliver is a mismatch for a lot of people when he has the ball in his hands. We should have found a number of plays to get him out in space. I would have liked to see him getting the ball 5-10 times a game (not as a QB) Same thing for Cottrell. Find a way to use his speed at least 3-4 times a game. There was zero effort to use the strength of the team we had. This reflects very poorly on CDP and Collins at the end of the day. We are never going to have a generic team. The coaches will always need to play to the current starters strengths. Even after 5 years of recruiting. This and the poor in game decision making adjustments I think will limit us even if we can out recruit people. Something that we wont ever be able to do unless the school helps out athlete friendly majors.

 

[forensicbuzz]

Oliver is a mismatch for a lot of people when he has the ball in his hands. We should have found a number of plays to get him out in space. I would have liked to see him getting the ball 5-10 times a game (not as a QB) Same thing for Cottrell. Find a way to use his speed at least 3-4 times a game. There was zero effort to use the strength of the team we had. This reflects very poorly on CDP and Collins at the end of the day. We are never going to have a generic team. The coaches will always need to play to the current starters strengths. Even after 5 years of recruiting. This and the poor in game decision making adjustments I think will limit us even if we can out recruit people. Something that we wont ever be able to do unless the school helps out athlete friendly majors.

Oliver would have been great for some Wildcat calls.

 

[gtpi]

wasnt it wisconsin or was it tosu that ran play after play w/o any time elapsing... not allowing the d to change personel and or get set?

THIS is what i was expecting with our new staff. as much as they talked about doing this they did just the opposite imo.

 

[gtpi]

I'll betcha everyone on this board could immediately name 3-4 coaches who could have done much more - they just don't want to admit it.

shouldnt your list be a list of..... available coaches.... who we can afford and.... who would have wanted this job?????

 

[jgtengineer]

we ran all those this year. The term scheme is overblown; almost every "scheme" runs versions of other schemes.

we ran a ton of power; power is a play, blocked 3-4 times differently. Its not a scheme. its a pulling G play for a run.
we ran alot of west coast concepts; these, are typically predicated on zone blocking, backside cuts, hot reads, 3 step drops etc; crossing routes
we ran option.
we ran power disguised as option

we ran all of it out of a zone blocking scheme. Its clearly a zone blocking scheme, with option concepts, and a ton of formations with the same play inside the formation. In fact, i saw alot of fridge playbook; but we don't have hamilton yet.

for those who say we were predictable and too basic. LOL are u kidding? Do you realize our guys didn't even know how to study film to block this scheme largely into the season with any efficiency. Key wasn't just teaching them the offense, how to block technique wise, he literally had to teach most of em how to study film too. Including the QB. We basically did not do as much under paul, because there was no film to study other than our own from prior years. And certainly, when we did film, it wasn't looking at anything like they do now.

If you were the coach, would you get more complex with an essentially true freshman qb, and that level of newness?? I sure as hell wouldn't. I would do my best to run similar plays I think we could block and read the right block keys, out of different formations and personnel groups....sounds like what we did.

I will say this. He like many OC had some questionable playcalls. But I am telling you go pick a random game; there are guys running wide arse open we either didn't see, or couldn't get to due to pressure, or flat missed the throw, that won't be the case soon....he isn't perfect; but man plays were there. That tells me it was a solid playcall. I still have some doubts but I think anyone in this scenario gets more time.

Certainly, I am giving him more time before piling on

Scheme references what you are doing not the plays themselves. A power run scheme is a set of plays and formations designed around getting a powerful back through the line and into the second level. It will augment itself with play action passing for shot plays and a medium passing game to pick up 3rd and manageable. We ran power plays. We did not scheme for power, we were running these plays in isolation. And if you thought you say teh fridge's offense in any of this i'd like those gold colored glasses.

Air Raid Schemes (not plays) Are based on using flood and mesh passing concepts to throw to the zone for short medium gains. The Constraint play in an air raid offense is the draw if the opponent starts dropping 8 and playing off with their line. You can do a lot of damage with draw plays in an air raid. The point of this offense however is to throw and throw often and use different pass concepts to set up shot plays.

A west coast offense means scheming short passing game to keep the chains moving and takign shots on second and short. Your run game is usually based on outside zone or stretch plays as you want your line to always be zoning and looking pass. When calling plays you typically favor short to medium route combos consisting of Out routs, bench routes, and slants. The backside flat and hitch routes are often used for safety valves and comebacks/curls on 3rd and long. Your run game is designed to stretch and find a crease and is typically the first down call in plus territory to preserve field goal range.

Option schemes come in several flavors and it really dictates how and what you are doing.

Zone Read- Zone read based schemes really are based around that play concept. Backside reads and QB keeps, to evolve play action passes and RPO. The line is zone blocking so the read key changes becoming the last man left unblocked instead of say the backside end. This is the simplest Option scheme and is mainly about having an athletic QB that opens up the run with other players.

Power Option - A power option scheme is similiar to a power run scheme, it is about condensing the field getting hat on hat and generating run lanes for one of usually ball carriers on any given play. The idea is to option B-gap to B-gap with doubles (midlines and dive options, or inverted veer from the gun.) Keep the chains moving 4 at a time. Your midline plays set up traps and counters to your runninback. Passing is usually playaction and medium play action using a lot of comeback routes. For an example of this offense. look at the Navy offense with Abey or our gameplan against VT with Matt Jordan or pretty much any non tevin year. Lots of close sets, zone dive, midline and trap/trap option. The old school I form option of the Osborne days was this scheme.

Spread Option - Spread option schemes are about spreading the field (obvious thing is obvious) But more specifically its about getting the ball to the perimeter for big gains. Urban Meyer's spread system was basically a double option system with the QB filling the typical power runner role and the flanker a-back attackign and pressing the perimeter. The base play of this offense is usually a triple option of some kind and everything is built around that threat. CPJ favored this scheme as well but the only time we really ran it was 2011-2012 with Tevin and Orwin smith. He paired his with an Run and Shoot passing game (get the qb on the move, option routes to the recievers) but this scheme is often spread with air raid or a deep passing game. The idea here is the threat of option every play keeps a defense honest. Blocking wise is usually consisting of angles and cut blocking. This is the most "open" scheme which is why you see the concepts implemented in so many offenses.

Offenses are often one or more schemes meshed together and you can further break this down into Pass game concepts and run game concepts (which is why we are starting to see the pass game cooardinator / run game cooardinator roles become more prevalant). But the overall scheme of your offense is about what you are trying to do and how all the other plays of your offense compliment that goal. This is what we seemed to lack last year.

 

[LibertyTurns]

I'll betcha everyone on this board could immediately name 3-4 coaches who could have done much more - they just don't want to admit it.

That’s a low bar to clear. 50-75 & you got a challenge. P’nut needs some extra study time before/after practice.

 

[WrexRacer]

My complaint is that the playcalls didn’t match either our personnel or that of our opponents. We ran straight at Pitt, UVa, and UGa. While it didn’t matter against uga, it was attacking the absolute strength of Pitt and Uva.

And since we had option OL who typically didn’t try to bowl people over, we couldn’t do what was being asked. Attacking like we did against Miami, by just locking guys up and shifting left or right, while letting Mason pause and pick a gap, worked much better. Our guys did ok holding run blocks, at least for a second or two.

And these aren’t new complaints with Pat’s playcalling, they pretty much match up with two years worth of Temple complaints.

 

[Ibeeballin]

Smh

 

[g0lftime]

Hold it. You mean Patenaude called plays this year!? But that implies that he had some kind of scheme he was using, doesn't it? I never saw any evidence of that. At all.

Just make a grouping of plays based on field position, down, and yardage. Then quickly run a random number generator to call the play. Why worry about exploiting a weakness in the D or setting up a specific play with earlier calls or running to your strengths. Those are irrelevant.

 

[Ash]

Yes, personnel cannot be totally taken out of the equation. I say that usage of personnel is more important. We have talent on the field (maybe not as much as you want, but our guys were not a bunch of scrubs) but it was rarely used effectively. So that tells me that the current coaching can't make a sensible game plan for a given group of players. They need their players before they are going to be able to show they can coach.

And these aren’t new complaints with Pat’s playcalling, they pretty much match up with two years worth of Temple complaints.

And that is what I am worried about. It's going to take a few years to figure out of the OC can call a game in a manner that puts our guys in a position to win. What if they don't get all of the players they want? What if we miss out on some guys? Will we be able to overcome that?

 

[Jmonty71]

Yes, personnel cannot be totally taken out of the equation. I say that usage of personnel is more important. We have talent on the field (maybe not as much as you want, but our guys were not a bunch of scrubs) but it was rarely used effectively. So that tells me that the current coaching can't make a sensible game plan for a given group of players. They need their players before they are going to be able to show they can coach.



And that is what I am worried about. It's going to take a few years to figure out of the OC can call a game in a manner that puts our guys in a position to win. What if they don't get all of the players they want? What if we miss out on some guys? Will we be able to overcome that?

My overall concern is the Steve Sarkasian style of calling plays. If we are required to flat out over talent other teams, to win, we'll be trouble. Sark has that luxury at Bama. So, it does not matter if he is predictable. I would like to see some creativity, some plays to boost at QBs confidence, some plays that challenge a defense and some plays that win games vs. just manages a game. I just don't feel like P'nut will supply that "thing" that GT will need. I seriously hope I'm wrong.

 

[WrexRacer]

Yes, personnel cannot be totally taken out of the equation. I say that usage of personnel is more important. We have talent on the field (maybe not as much as you want, but our guys were not a bunch of scrubs) but it was rarely used effectively. So that tells me that the current coaching can't make a sensible game plan for a given group of players. They need their players before they are going to be able to show they can coach.



And that is what I am worried about. It's going to take a few years to figure out of the OC can call a game in a manner that puts our guys in a position to win. What if they don't get all of the players they want? What if we miss out on some guys? Will we be able to overcome that?

I think we should know on Pat after next year. We should be able to average 17 offensive points a game. That isn’t a high bar. We had too many games this year where we scored 1 or fewer offensive TDs.

 

[Skeptic]

I think we should know on Pat after next year. We should be able to average 17 offensive points a game. That isn’t a high bar. We had too many games this year where we scored 1 or fewer offensive TDs.

In today's game 17 points average will get us an average -- .500 -- season. If we have a good defense. The game has changed that much, with QBs standing back there and slinging it 30-35 times a game.

 

[WrexRacer]

In today's game 17 points average will get us an average -- .500 -- season. If we have a good defense. The game has changed that much, with QBs standing back there and slinging it 30-35 times a game.

Recruiting wise, we should be lower P5. That should get us to 500. If we can’t get there, we need to rethink our OC or offensive staff.

 

[stech81]

Not sure what y'all think that an average 17 points would get us to 500. I hope y'all are being sarcastic we averaged 18 this year and that was good for 3 wins.